Unspecified Dilemma

I'll get back to you about the previous post, but I've recently realized that I rejected my father figure at a VERY young age, leading to one (a large part of my life being largely influenced (or in part, controlled by) by women (not necessarily to a bad extent, but a little out of whack). That's not necessarily a bad thing at all. I'm not knocking more feminine wisdom at all. However, this has led me to "cling" to people I've met that felt like father figures in my life. A shrink I knew, a primatologist professor, a coach -- all these people who I meet personally and feel impressed by their intellectual capacity, energy levels, and most importantly feel "connected" with in similarities of demeanor. I frequently kind of relinquish all "uncertainties" and put an enormous amount of trust (some would say an "abnormal" amount of trust) in their abilities. Now, these people that I've subconsciously selected to "fill the father figure shoes" in my past definitely were exceptional people -- in other words, I "chose wisely". So my problem does not revolve around the selections themselves, but the selection process. Wouldn't the best course of action be for me to become my own "ideal" father figure? Because of inefficacy, arguments, and the fact that it's not fair to him, I've ceased to "prompt" characteristics from my dad long ago. That's natural to kind of discover these parental replacements if you reject a parent(s), right?

Thoreau said, "dreams are the touchstones of our character" and I feel if I can manufacture these personality qualities that I've respsected in other individuals -- become the ideal character myself, someone whom I'd admire more than any of the "parental replacements) (':lol:'), I'd discover a clearer path toward my dreams.

Puma, I really want to respond to your vocational suggestive post about walmart, I'll get to that, but becoming aware (and then dissolving) this "Father figure" -- parental "replacement" program I've had going on felt extremely important in discovering one's life work. Possibly, at 16 when I seriously fell in love with this woman from california, I replaced my maternal figure with her? interesting.

Kooz,

Wow guy! If this is the tone you use with someone who's trying to help you, what kinda tone do you use with those who couldn't care less about you??? I'm tempted to be sarcastic and dismissive right back at you, but think I won't go there.

I told you what I did, not what I thought you should specifically do. Whether a person moves 500 or 5000 miles away is irrelevant. Whether you waitress, or work in WalMart or join the Peace Corp, or join the military is irrelevant. What IS relevant at this point in your life, is that you do SOMETHING tangible to start your independent life. Going to motivational seminars isn't tangible (unless the next day you go out and apply for 10 jobs). Putting yourself on a teaching referral list isn't tangible (unless it actually results in a few referrals and good interviews). Writing ebooks about self-actualization (without having much experience about actually realizing your life) isn't tangible.

Going to school, although valuable, is a sheltered life. Working in a campus job is sheltered. Working in a job that your parents set up is sheltered. Living in an apt paid for by your parents is sheltered. Even writing ebooks is sheltered... no real risk going on there. And living primarily in your mind is definitely sheltered.

I gotta ask you a question: If your resume is already slick, if your interview skills are top notch, if your attitude is right, if you're so smart that you sailed thru college, if you're matching your skills to the appropriate job, if you're already a whiz at all this.... why don't you have a job?

Kooz, you can spend your time right now talking trash about your parents (and maybe they deserve it), or dreaming about becoming a life coach (you don't have any life yet to coach any one else on), or shooting down Puma's suggestions, or putting down a regular job cuz you're more the Mick Jagger type.... you can stay paralyzed in your thought processes... or you can find some kind of job - earn some money - and start feeling what it's like (even in a small way) to really have some responsibility for your life.

Get outta your head... and into your life!

I know what I'm talking about. I've actually DONE it... not talked about it.

LifeSong

kooz wrote:
Thoreau said, "dreams are the touchstones of our character" and I feel if I can manufacture these personality qualities that I've respsected in other individuals -- become the ideal character myself, someone whom I'd admire more than any of the "parental replacements) (':lol:'), I'd discover a clearer path toward my dreams.

The word manufacture means to produce something out of raw materials. What you need to produce is self reliance. The raw materials are your intelligence, drive, and perseverence. Physical action is required in this process. This process of becoming the ideal character will take your whole lifetime, so better get started right away, babe.

puma wrote:
Oh, Kooz...
When I worked at Walmart, I knew many young college students, some of them graduates going for more education, working part time. The Walmart was accomodating to the needs of these kids, and helped them with workable schedules.

Interesting...so Walmart kind of fosters an environment that welcomes young adults trying to make a living via a temporary job (walmart "harvests" /welcomes people in my position) that sounds encouraging.

Nobody was too stuck up to work if he or she needed to eat. I don't know what alphabet generation these kids were in: X,Y, or tomorrow probably Z ( what comes after Z?), but having a job put food on the table and gas in the car, and payed the rent.

haha. The genX ranges from 1961–1981, while MTV typically ranges from 1974-89. They might have been in one of those generations:) Mabye they they could have fit baby-boomers -- 40s-60s. But you're right. The point is that they - like me -- felt pinned into a place of necessity (needing to earn to survive) and, thus, needed a solution that walmart provided. Again, encouraging. I've been recently really hacking away at my computer operating skills. I lvoe the clarity, sense of organization, and "brain alignment" those skills seem to create. I've got that on the backburner, too.

(Also, as far as I know, I don't know if a Gen Z exists . does it? As far as I know, the most recent generation is mid-90s to 2001, Internet Generation or iGeneration. )

Granted, these kids didn't have wealthy parents. But Al Gore's parents were well off, yet look what Al has accomplished on his own. Wealth doesn't have to cripple a child, like poor little Paris Hilton.

haha . I've looked into the paris hilton thing a lot and think she's actually trying to "break free of the debilitating consequences of her wealthy roots". I might be more valiant in that eneavor, but I can atleast microscopically relate to that situation in a far off way. Anyways, wise words about wealth crippling you. That's what I felt has happened, but never wanted to admit it so succincty and directly. Conclusively, it seems that any extreme (poverty and/or wealth) can cripple a kid.

Obviously, because of my quench for authenticity and my my parents' ses and emotional state/problems, I definitely related to Salinder's Holden Caulfield creation -- brilliant literature. I'm surpised that work isn't referenced more on this board, actually. So many problems that people write off overlap with holden caulfield's world!

puma wrote:

kooz wrote:
Thoreau said, "dreams are the touchstones of our character" and I feel if I can manufacture these personality qualities that I've respsected in other individuals -- become the ideal character myself, someone whom I'd admire more than any of the "parental replacements) (':lol:'), I'd discover a clearer path toward my dreams.

The word manufacture means to produce something out of raw materials. What you need to produce is self reliance. The raw materials are your intelligence, drive, and perseverence. Physical action is required in this process. This process of becoming the ideal character will take your whole lifetime, so better get started right away, babe.

Thanks puma. That's a good clarification. Emersonian self-reliance. I'm a huge fan of that! Thanks for the compliments regarding intelligence, drive, perseverence. Really appreciate the encouragement. I totally agree that raw ingredients of intelligence, drive, and perseverence must be coupled with the engine of pysical action to produce "self-reliance". I've definitely BEEN tremendously interested in becoming my ideal character and have tried to channel that intelligence, drive, and perseverence, and into self-reliance with physical action (exertion-exercise) and all these applications, resumes, interviews, and job queries. Should I just keep doing that, even though it's taken me no where financially? Is there some other angle I should take? You say "physical action is required", I agree, but WHAT kind of physical action. Driving 200 miles due west? Running and exercising eveyryday? Calling and applying to more places that I've previously been rejected from? What physical actions, specifically should I take?:?: Thanks again for the encouragement.

LifeSong wrote:Kooz,

Wow guy! If this is the tone you use with someone who's trying to help you, what kinda tone do you use with those who couldn't care less about you??? I'm tempted to be sarcastic and dismissive right back at you, but think I won't go there.

If you picked up that I don't appreciate your help, you'd be being perceptively accurate. I don't appreciate your help. My messages and posts have been bold, deliberate, confident and honest. I have an interest in the advice that puma's provided and some other posters, but one doesn't have an obligation to be "open" to all advice that people provide. You should respect the effort -- and I respect your effort -- but you don't have to welcome the advice -- and trust me, I don't welcome your intolerant advice at all!

Being open to all advice that your provided with will destroy you. Trust me. How do you expect a person who recieves 7 kinds of contradictory forms of advice (some of the advice genuinely helps, other advice the person had some other agenda, other advice the person sounds like someone you totally don't connect with) to be "welcoming" to all them? So, again, I don't shoot down puma's suggestions -- I incredibly accept puma's suggestions.

Your suggestions, however, I do "shoot down". I don't really see how you could mix that up. I don't know you, personally, but I don't like your angle nor your suggestions. Puma has honored what my parents have put me through and has provided some solutions to my financial state in a way that I find appealing. You have not done that. Don't take it personally -- just incompatibilities, probably. I respect you for trying to help me but honestly get the vibe your interest in connecting with your own kids, possibly, or something else, has manifested itself as help for me.

Additionally, I find it subtly infuriating that you confused my reverence towards puma's advice with my distaste of your advice.

Most people I've met who sound like you usually request "evidence" of your actions I found difficult to deal with. I don't have an interesting in "mending" or "curing" or "clarifying" anything because I feel incredibly confident in my assertion that you didn't provide helpful advice. However, just for the heck of it, a few of these examples might be illuminating:

1.You sarcastically implied an incorrect emotionally permanent state by saying:

Glad I didn't offend you permanently.

For future refence in your (probably futile, if you approach support the same way you approached me) endeavors to provide help to people it's best, when a person feels confused and overwhelmed by emotional frusrations to NOT infer that they could have been "permanently trapped" in some emotional state. Such allusions -- while impossible -- can feel quite frightening to people. Seconldy that single statement, opened your response, and set the tone the entire message. Not the best way to start of a message that truly intends to give advice to someone who's experiencing struggle. Thirdly, your sarcastic holds a twinge of sulkiness to which I do not appeal.

2.

If this is the tone you use with someone who's trying to help you, what kinda tone do you use with those who couldn't care less about you???

This loaded sentence can manufacutre all types of self-dobut. if anything, it destructively accomplishes 2 things. By attempting to generate shame for not appreciating your advice, you additionally infer that I approach all advice with a backwards, wayward, illogical approach. So with that single sentence you question my filter to all advice and further convey your personal intolerance of my preferences.

3.

But I trained myself to be a spender AND a saver.

Here your incredibly obvious advice sounds like an endeavor to communicate with a 4-year old. In short, you humiliate when you wrote :

But I trained myself to be a spender AND a saver.

To a fairly advanced and savvy (but recreational) stock investor like myself, hearing someone tell you to "not just spend" but to "save AND spend" can be equated to spelling the word "b-u-s-i-n-e-s-s" to a some top-notch experienced business-person and expecting them not to know the spelling.

4. Here,you commit a very low blow, and passively-agressively infer that I have not realized a lot about my life:

Writing ebooks about self-actualization (without having much experience about actually realizing your life) isn't tangible.

Ouchee!:cry: When self-realization tops the personal priorities list of a person (as it has for me the past six years), insinuating that they haven't realized a lot about their life, well, villifies their perception of success, does it not?


5. Finally, you try to "pad" and soften your subtle, microscopic insinuation of humiliation, shame, and intolerance by writing:

Hope you don't take this as putting you down.

What do you think would be the best way to conceal subtle passive-agression (attempts to humiliate, attempts to fabricate shame, etc.)?


I don't have enough time for more, but that feels like the tip of the iceberg -- atleast the gist of it. Again, trust that your advice has good intentions. I trust that you're doing your best to give good advice! However, I don't buy, appreciate, nor welcome your (specifically yours) actual advice at all. You can think of me as rude, spoiled, snobbish brat. You could say (which is what you were inferring) that I DO criticize people who help me and praise people who discourage me. I don't care. You just sound like you operate from some other agenda (passive-aggression) and I percieve your helpful attempt as nothing other (to be blunt) than bs. Just because a person requests advice from a deprived state doesn't mean he has to consume every bit of help that people so generously provide. I didn't trust your advice, found it ridiculing, humiliating, and shaming, but (and this will sound pretty indigestible) ironically, I do trust that your intentions come from an honest, good source. But does an immune system come from an honest good source? Of course. Can (in say) a cancer is it possible for the "good intentions" of the immune system to backfire and begin eliminating healthy cells -- in other words, can the good intentions generate wayword, unhelpful and even destructive responses? yes. Again, that was not an attempt to equate you to a "cancer", but rather, to illustrate the existence of the seemingly contradictory "good intentions, but destructive delivery" duality.

If you completely disregard this post, great! But if you have trouble hearing this, one thing that might be helpful to know about me -- one bit of quirkiness I have (although I have an awareness of it so that helps to control it): I have a very wierd tendency to magnify already-present emotions in people. I tend to increase the general milieu a person displays. If someone comes across as feeling "correct", I tend to bolster that. If someone comes across believing they delivered an unclear message..like someone who says

I told you what I did, not what I thought you should specifically do.

I will tend to magnify their sensation of feeling as though they deliver unclear messages. I obviously try to control this odd bit of quirkiness, but sometimes experience difficulties in doing so. If I feel genuine, in other words, and if you display signs of being in a positive state around me, you'll feel more in a positive state, uplifted; but the reverse tends to occur with a negative state (people who appear to feel sad, depleted, or hollow around me often don't feel that much better, but feel worse). There, tell me the name of THAT "disorder" and you'll earn a gold star:!:


However, just because I despise your angle, your approach, and your implications of humiliation and shame, that doesn't mean we can't be friends and agree once in awhile

I agree with you on this:

Going to school, although valuable, is a sheltered life.
Working in a campus job is sheltered.
Working in a job that your parents set up is sheltered.
Living in an apt paid for by your parents is sheltered.

I figured that out in highschool, but "held my breath" throughout the bubble of college. School life does not equal real world life. I concur with that assertion. Totally agree with those four forms of shelteredness.

Even writing ebooks is sheltered... no real risk going on there. And living primarily in your mind is definitely sheltered.

This sounds like more of your vile criticism. Now you've successfully criticized, with your putrid villifications, every single attempt I've made at "not being sheltered". What may I ask is "not being sheltered"? Do expect me to think that recieving a monthly paycheck that says "recipient: Your name" and sender: "employer other than parents" is the equation for "not being sheltered"? If so, I'd say you'd be the one who's seriously disillusioned and seriously sheltered!

I'm one of the least sheltered people you'd ever meet! I've lived in tents, in jungles for months, out of my car, on sailboats hundreds of miles at sea weeks on end. I don't sleep in beds (and haven't for the past 5 years). I cook all my own food that is the cheapest you can buy. I've lived off rice,beans, and marshmallows for months straight. I don't exercise in fancy gyms; I run my miles outside. Coaching myself to train thousands of miles for marathons, I've nearly frozen off fingers and extremities exercising outside in sub-zero weather. I've lived alone in other countries with no friends, no family around from the get go. That's just "habitat"! I'm just getting started! I've been kicked off boats, out of cars, off basketball courts, out of homes, out of stores, off of movie sets, I've had my fourth amendment violated. I've had store owners, boat captains, casting directors, movie directors, basketball captains, CEOs, and chauffeurs all act enraged towards me. And yet I've had acting managers, coaches, doctors, teachers, and CEOs acknowledge my high emotional and intellectual intelligence. I've been punched in the face, given a black eye, broken bones, almost tore a hamstring, received a minor concussion, and, yes, I've smashed nails and fingers in doors (who hasn't?) . I've written over 1 million words encompassing 5 books. I've typed hundreds of pages on keyboards missing keys that had wires jutting out, occasionally electrocuting you. You couldn't get into the classes I wanted to take in college, so I've had to teach myself all my desired subjects from scratch (music, investing, math, and psych). I've had to carve out emotional freedom from an imprisoned, manipulative upbringing. I've had to identify my strengths and talents from within a conspiratorial environment where my beliefs were mutated and oppressed. Amidst all the emotional suffocation, I've endured. I have a soul -- I have an identity. I've had the most culturally eclectic group of friends possible (diverse in ethnicities, beliefs, nationalities, sizes and shapes, you name it). I've lived the least "sealed off", most adventurous life possible.

Given all the truth I just confessed, the only way you could not sound like an utter idiotic by claiming that "I lived a sheltered life" is if you were implying that "i've been financially provided for most of my entire life". If you were implying the latter, that I've been financially provided for, then you'd be completely 100% correct. I wish that weren't true, but that's been the case. I've been "financially" 100% sheltered. In terms of earning my own income and financially supporting myself, I haven't even stepped out of the "baby crib" yet! If you were inferring anything else by living a "sheltered life", you'd be so wrong, you'd probably look right!

I gotta ask you a question: If your resume is already slick, if your interview skills are top notch, if your attitude is right, if you're so smart that you sailed thru college, if you're matching your skills to the appropriate job, if you're already a whiz at all this.... why don't you have a job?

again, another passively-aggressive inference of inadequacy towards me from you. Trust me, I don't submit myself to the doubt you try to infer. I know I've tried everything in my capacity --(nice summary you listed, btw, thanks!) slick resume, good appearance, solid attitude, smart, sailed thorugh college, already a whiz, etc. -- to get a job. That's why I've asked myself the same question! I'm glad you're on the same line of logic as me with this one. I've thought of a few (6)possibilities as to why I don't have a job given all of the above:

1. Laziness, I self-sabotage because some part of me doesn't want a job. Even though I do try whole-heartedly a part of me could just self-sabotage and blow it in the process somehow.
2. Parental programming. Another very wise poster, whom advice I truly respected, mentioned that abusive parents control their children with money. Money becomes the lever, the implement for controlling their kids. I have a lot of confidence that something in this nature is going on. How would I get around that? My parents deliberately left me clueless about how to earn money, so I always come drifting back to them.
3. Arrogance. Again, another form of self-sabotage. The limiting belief: Any place where I don't apply all my talent and all my intelligence and all my incredible skills would be a waste of my time and a disgrace to all the educational support my parents have given me. Arrogance would cause me to only settle for jobs like a webmaster or a life coach that could utilize all these incredible skills and talents and gifts I possess.
4. Creative Vocational Interests that lack an Income Structure. This theory asserts that people get paid doing EXACTLY what I spend a lot of my time doing (for free), but I haven't found an income structure, a method to turn "sale and earning" into the work that I already do. This asserts that I am not lazy (because I work on Operating system troubleshooting and web design and life coaching and projects -- projects that some people, undoubtedly make big bucks doing).
5. Fear of Authority. This theory asserts that that I may have a strong repulsion of being told what to do; being directed by an employer; having to listen to an authority figure simply because of his/her title, that I wouldn't naturally respect.
6. Lack of Challenge. I just realized why it's been so incredibly difficult to earn money...it's TOO easy! Things that are incredibly challenging -- (hardest levels in video games, math proofs, computer science, tons of examples) for most people feel the most engaging to me. So when I feel very entertained, most people -- in my experience -- have felt that the challenge is too difficult or too hard. Puma said it himself, "if you can read, write, and do arithmetic" you can be employed. It's TOO easy! the inevitable sensation of it being a waste of my time prevents me from landing a job.

Solutions to Work Impediments
Honestly, I have a lot of confidence that all 6 of those impediments to finding work are "at work" (pun somewhat intended). So, conclusively, I don't have a job because of laziness, arrogance, parental programming, lack of an income structure, fear of authority. and lack of challenge. I'll tack those up. Because it seems like all I do is work, laziness seems to be less of factor; and because I frequently feel anxious and sometimes reluctant, arrogance seems to be less of a factor, too. The parental programming, I'll just have to cease looking at them as a source of income. The Income structure...I can use all the help I can get on making that work. Fear of authority...I'll just have to realize that authoritative relationships don't always have to result in me being subservient or obsequious; in other words, I can still have a superior, but can maintain my volition, my independence, and my personal self-constitution. Finally, being about to do something that's TOO easy becomes incredibly challenging or impossible. So I can overcome lack of challenge by in a job, by finding/creating something that's engaging and fun and challenging.

Kooz, you can spend your time right now talking trash about your parents (and maybe they deserve it)

they do

or dreaming about becoming a life coach (you don't have any life yet to coach any one else on)

hiss. Ouch!

, or shooting down Puma's suggestions

Corection: I applaud puma's suggestions.

, or putting down a regular job cuz you're more the Mick Jagger type....

Hey, now that sounds like a highly personalized, validating, and encouraging compliment if a I ever heard one!

you can stay paralyzed in your thought processes... or you can find some kind of job - earn some money - and start feeling what it's like (even in a small way) to really have some responsibility for your life.

Get outta your head... and into your life!

You know. I've had numerous people tell me that "i think about things to much" or that I should "get out of my head" to move on with my life. Couldn't you say that people who work in think tanks, authors, einsteins, live very much of their life -- quite successfully, I might -- "in their head"? You surely couldn't be denouncing being an author, a scientist, and/or a mathemitician (what about great composers who conjured scores "from their head"?) as illegitimate professions could you? Alternatively, because of the number of people that have suggested that (about 3-4 or so), I'm definitely listening to it. What does that mean? Should I just randomly go around doing things like a chicken with his head cut off? "Not thinkging about things" is advice I get; and I also get advice to "think about it". What woudl "Not thinking about things" entail? Just whenever I feel like saying something, to say it, without a filter? That doesn't sound like a recipe for success. In fact, I've tried to land acting jobs, computer jobs, etc. by "not thinking about it" and sometimes I couldn't even find the place, or things ended with not a lot of positive feedback. Does get outta your head...and into your life mean to just call up every store that in the neighborhood and apply for work? Because I've already done that (over 20-30 stores just in close proximity). Does that mean driving to CA? What does that infer???

I know what I'm talking about. I've actually DONE it... not talked about it.

Congratulations. I experience joy believing you feel that way about yourself.

Hi, kooz,
Acing job interviews was never one of my strong points, either. I've added a couple of links here:
http://www.quintcareers.com/job_intervi ... ation.html
http://www.job-interview.net/Bank/JobIn ... stions.htm
You are so bright and articulate; I am not sure what is going wrong with your interviews.
I hope this helps. Not knowing what one is doing wrong is very frustrating. It may help to ask employers why you weren't hired. Like, what did I not have that is essential to being hired by you?
With me, I realised that I would get nervous and babble. So I practiced acting calm and not talking out of nervousness. Making friendly eye contact, and not elaborating on questions and answers, but keeping my responses clear and simple.
This is a physical step you can take; Job interview coaching.

You've got me all wrong, Kooz. But that's okay.
The last thing I want is to not be helpful.
So I'll drop out and let Puma do what she does well.
I wish you the best.
LifeSong

LifeSong wrote:You've got me all wrong, Kooz. But that's okay.
The last thing I want is to not be helpful.
So I'll drop out and let Puma do what she does well.
I wish you the best.
LifeSong

Simply because you think I'm trying to "peg you" illustrates your hollow approach in the first place! All the comments I said reflected your approach, not your goal. Your goal has been trying to help me -- I know that -- I've just helping you by pointing out flows in your method of attaining that goal.

No, I think I have you pegged quite right. You possess an incredibly generous and helpful INTENT. But with therapy INTENT does not equal METHOD. I illustrated to you that your methods felt incriminating, sarcastic at times, and somewhat humiliating sometimes. That's the truth. You can't say what I feel "is wrong"!!:shock:. Whatever you feel like doing -- your choice has always been your own.

Thanks for your honest 2 cents. I know you've, with good intentions, tried your best!