Need advice about my stepson and regression

Hi, I'm new to this board and hoping I can get some guidance. I'm a mom two two boys, my 8 year old bio son Kyle and my 11 year old stepson James. To say that my husband's ex is unstable would be a huge understatement. She's had issues with drug and alcohol addiction for the past decade and we had to fight hard to remove my stepson from her custody. We were granted partial custody when he was 5, and it was always a nightmare when he'd return from her house because she was neglectful. The boy wasn't potty trained until he came to our house, and even then, it was touch and go and sadly, it still is.

We recently gained full custody of James because his mother was sent to prison for bank robbery. He's taking the change as well as he can but it's been tough on him. My husband and I are doing all we can to heap love and affection on him while also giving him the space to be his own little person and grieve his mother's absence in his comfort zone.

Sadly, he's regressed with toileting again and has been full on wetting and soiling himself at home. He doesn't do this at school, but as soon as he gets home he stands in the doorway and messes his pants. He's currently in counseling but the issue is that my 8 year old sees his big brother doing this and getting attention from it, and now he's started having "accidents" after dinner.

I don't know what I'm asking for here. Maybe some guidance or advice. Maybe someone to tell me that this will all pass and it'll be okay. I feel like my tank is empty and don't know how much patience I have to spare.

I refuse to punish either of them but my husband thinks we need to ground them/take away privileges. I think it's unfair because James is coping with massive trauma and Kyle is seeing it and absorbing it through no fault of his own. Our next session with the counselor is on November 2nd if that's relevant. I don't want the kids to think I'm mad at them or that I'm disgusted by them. I think it would gut me if they thought I was rejecting them even a little bit.

Hello and welcome!

Note, I'm not a parent, but when I was much younger than they, but definitely old enough to not go in my britches, but still did, my parents put a diaper on me and made a point of laughing at me. And I never did that again...

That does sound pretty harsh- but it stopped that the first time. They're probably too old for that, in any event. Still, some surgical humiliation worked in my case.

Personally I'd give the 11-y/o no more attention over soiling his britches, than telling him to change his britches- NO extra attention over the 8-y/o. Not a big show of emotion just like telling them to wash their hands before coming to the supper table.

And... I don't know I'd be tempted to one day while they're at school switch out their underwear drawers with pull ups or Depends. Then when they ask about it, just matter-of-factly let them know that when they decide they're young men then they can have their regular underwear back, it's up to them. No grounding, no taking away anything except you don't get big boy underwear until you stop this. I mean, clearly it can be controlled if it's not done at school. Not angry at you, just this is how it is.

If they have to dress out for PE I'd either talk to the school about not making them dress out or as soon as you get home you change out of your big kid undies, "I don't like doing this but we need to stop this, k?" Anyway that's my thoughts.

Hi Snaga thank you for the warm welcome. I appreciate your input and the thoughtful reply. I’m uncomfortable with putting either of them in diapers or pull-ups.

As for additional attention, I’m 100% onboard with this but my stepson makes it difficult because he makes a production out of messing his pants by either finding me or his dad before going or loudly announcing that it’s happening. It’s disturbing because he’s clearly hurting. He also refuses to clean himself up and it becomes a tug of war that ends with my husband having to manually walk him through the process. Even then he refuses to participate for the most part so hubby does most of the work.

With my younger son, he sees his brother being cleaned up and gets upset when I tell him he has to do it himself, but he cooperates. Luckily this is a once a day event with him but that’s little consolation considering that he’s defecating in his pants. My husband raises his voice at both boys when this happens and I’ve had to counsel him because it’s jarring for them. I spoke with him today and we decided to focus on a solution for Kyle since this is new behavior for him and continue with occupational therapy and counseling for James.

Hi kylesmom2022,

I think this will all pass and it will be ok

Your stepson comes from neglectful place. He needs time, he needs to rebuild himself.

Is there any possibility of making things easier for you, in practical life? For instance easy to wash- pants; or he puts himself the pants in the wash machine - or go to toilet just when he comes home, or.maybe - if he asks to - having some discrete diapers at home?
Probably it's very uncomfortable for him too. He probably has no control on it. So maybe you can find solutions to reduce the inconvenience, with him.

You say that your son begins to do the same to get attention. Maybe you can talk with him. He had all space for himself and suddenly he has to share. Is it possible to take time for him and talk and give him some special attention in this moment?

You seem very attentive. Don't worry and maybe - if possible - try to find some time for you too.

Well that's some interesting information. Makes a production out of it, and won't clean himself up. I'm afraid I'd take that as some sort of challenge. I'd think after a few hours of not cleaning up his skin would be mildly protesting the neglect. 'Well son, if you don't want to be all raw Down There, you need to clean up, I don't know what to tell you except that people don't do this unless they have no control over their muscles and when they do they get cleaned up. Do you want to get sick from this?'

How is he with regular bath times?

I mean don't get me wrong I was in a bad place around 10-11 with my parents splitting up and I did some damage around the house (when nobody was around) without a clear understanding at the time of why I was doing it but I couldn't have but not had every expectation for getting in trouble over it because ultimately I knew better. Amazingly I didn't- I suppose because it was so out-of-character for me to carve stuff up with a knife that my parents mildly freaked over it. But Now Me would've given Then Me a good spanking or some sort of punishment because I clearly rated it. From my point of view, even things that are caused by issues aren't simply inexcusable and without consequences, both your sons understand that other kids don't mess their britches. They also understand they daren't do it in front of other kids at school because those kids would be merciless. Unacceptable behaviour is still unacceptable behaviour. And there should be consequences.

This has to be beyond frustrating for you both. I mean I've heard of things like bedwetting, but this seemingly planned self-defecation is pretty wild stuff. I'm hoping this doesn't overly tax your own relationship.

If he doesn't want to clean up, then why does he announce it, I wonder. Negative attention is still attention, I suppose. Yes, I'd be tempted to 'oh well I hate it, you'll find you get raw down there in a hurry if you don't clean up, son, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you did'. I mean ultimately he has to get cleaned up I'm not advocating child abuse, but if he wants to walk around like that for an hour or so I'd be mighty tempted to oblige him. And at this point I'm not even thinking about sanitary underwear as a punishment or motivator, just simply 'look if you insist on doing this then that's what you have to wear, people who are incontinent have to wear this that's just how it is. When you stop being incontinent, then you can stop wearing these but I have to make sure you stay healthy.'

Hi kylesmom22,

I hadn't read the second post when I wrote. So he seems to make things very difficult for you all.
And it's very difficult not to feel rejectful with him.

It's good that he is doing counseling.

I think that if I were you, I would need counseling myself to deal with all that context.

Philonoe wrote:Hi kylesmom2022,

I think this will all pass and it will be ok

Your stepson comes from neglectful place. He needs time, he needs to rebuild himself.

Is there any possibility of making things easier for you, in practical life? For instance easy to wash- pants; or he puts himself the pants in the wash machine - or go to toilet just when he comes home, or.maybe - if he asks to - having some discrete diapers at home?
Probably it's very uncomfortable for him too. He probably has no control on it. So maybe you can find solutions to reduce the inconvenience, with him.

You say that your son begins to do the same to get attention. Maybe you can talk with him. He had all space for himself and suddenly he has to share. Is it possible to take time for him and talk and give him some special attention in this moment?

You seem very attentive. Don't worry and maybe - if possible - try to find some time for you too.

Hi Philnoe, thank you for your reply and your words of positive encouragement.

To be fair, my husband does as much of the "heavy lifting" as he can when it comes to the boys, and with my stepson in particular. James' taunting us is a byproduct of his trauma, and it's what he used to do with his mother when he was in her care as well. Her response was to hit him/shame him/ curse him. Whereas in our home we don't hit and we never curse at or shame the kids. His therapist believes he's testing our tolerance levels because right now he's still in a defensive mode.

I wouldn't be comfortable putting either of the kids in a pull-up or diaper and neither of them want this either. I had a heart to heart with my youngest after he came to our room crying because had a genuine bedwetting accident in the middle of the night. I helped him change and put new sheets on his bed, and he told me he was scared that we don't love him as much because we treat him differently than his brother.

This broke my heart. All I could do was try to reassure him that we love them both the same, and that he never had to worry about us not loving him. He asked if I was mad at him for having accidents and I told him no, but I wish he'd listen to his body like he normally does. He didn't have much to say after that so I just sat with him and rubbed his back until he fell asleep.

This morning I had a long talk with hubby and once again reinforced that he can't raise his voice. When I told him about my talk with Kyle he was gutted and made it a point to go sit with him for some one on one dad-son time before James woke up.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thank you very much for the reply, and for your nice follow-up post last night.

Snaga wrote:Well that's some interesting information. Makes a production out of it, and won't clean himself up. I'm afraid I'd take that as some sort of challenge. I'd think after a few hours of not cleaning up his skin would be mildly protesting the neglect. 'Well son, if you don't want to be all raw Down There, you need to clean up, I don't know what to tell you except that people don't do this unless they have no control over their muscles and when they do they get cleaned up. Do you want to get sick from this?'

Hi Snaga, thanks for the detailed follow up. His habit of making a production out of it is a residual trauma response from his time with his biomother. This was part of the power struggle between them, and her reaction was always toxic. His therapist believes he's testing the waters, so to speak, and that eventually he'll stop with the taunting when he finally accepts that we won't shame him or curse him or hit him for it.

Snaga wrote:How is he with regular bath times?

He does okay. At 11 I thought he would have moved onto showers but he prefers a bath and loves bubble baths. So I make sure we have bubbles on hand at all times so he can have something to look forward to. Hubby still monitors his baths (pops his head in the door to remind him to wash his hair, etc.) but for the most part, bathtime is his happy time.

Snaga wrote:I mean don't get me wrong I was in a bad place around 10-11 with my parents splitting up and I did some damage around the house (when nobody was around) without a clear understanding at the time of why I was doing it but I couldn't have but not had every expectation for getting in trouble over it because ultimately I knew better. Amazingly I didn't- I suppose because it was so out-of-character for me to carve stuff up with a knife that my parents mildly freaked over it. But Now Me would've given Then Me a good spanking or some sort of punishment because I clearly rated it.

Unfortunately, he experienced a lot of physical abuse at the hands of his mother and some of her boyfriends through the years. So even if we were a spanking household this wouldn't be a viable option simply for the fact that he's equated spanking with anger and not with consequences for a serious transgression.

Snaga wrote:From my point of view, even things that are caused by issues aren't simply inexcusable and without consequences, both your sons understand that other kids don't mess their britches. They also understand they daren't do it in front of other kids at school because those kids would be merciless. Unacceptable behaviour is still unacceptable behaviour. And there should be consequences.

I agree. This is new behavior in my 8 year old and we had a heart to heart last night. He's terrified of us not loving him anymore. I assured him that we'd always love him but at the same time, reinforced my wish for him to listen to his body and use the toilet like he used to. As for James, well, this has been a lifelong issue and I'm desperate to help him with it. My husband feels a sense of urgency to get this nipped in the bud ASAP because as he heads into middle school, this will be a social nightmare for him.

Snaga wrote:This has to be beyond frustrating for you both. I mean I've heard of things like bedwetting, but this seemingly planned self-defecation is pretty wild stuff. I'm hoping this doesn't overly tax your own relationship.

It's been devastating for us. We expected to deal with some of this from James, but when Kyle started to mimic his brother's behavior it shocked me and disturbed me. I tried to tell myself that it was just an accident, but after a full week of bowel movements in his pants I knew I was deluding myself. Luckily, my husband is loving and attentive, and we check in on each other every day and night.

Snaga wrote:If he doesn't want to clean up, then why does he announce it, I wonder. Negative attention is still attention, I suppose. Yes, I'd be tempted to 'oh well I hate it, you'll find you get raw down there in a hurry if you don't clean up, son, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you did'. I mean ultimately he has to get cleaned up I'm not advocating child abuse, but if he wants to walk around like that for an hour or so I'd be mighty tempted to oblige him. And at this point I'm not even thinking about sanitary underwear as a punishment or motivator, just simply 'look if you insist on doing this then that's what you have to wear, people who are incontinent have to wear this that's just how it is. When you stop being incontinent, then you can stop wearing these but I have to make sure you stay healthy.'

It's how he exercised control when he was under his mother's care. She was abusive and dismissive of his feelings, and always responded badly when he'd do this with her. As a result, he doubled down and it became a vicious cycle. Hubby and I are hoping that he'll realize that he doesn't have to have this defensive posture with us, and that as sad as it makes him that his mom's in prison, he's safe with us and won't have to worry about being verbally, physically or emotionally abused whether he messes his pants or not.

Hi kylesmom2022,

It's good that there is a space to talk and reassure Kyle
And the bubble bath, waaaaouw!

So what are read is that there is sort of time of adaptation both sides.

I've been thinking about it. Here some thoughts, not sure if they can be useful...

- If at some moment you are angry at him, you can mention it instead of expressing it or keeping it... well I don't know. For victim of trauma, it might be good to reassure at the same time.

- If at some moment he express the desire to stop with dirty pants, I see two things that might help :

- it might take time, so you can notice the progresses and even write them with him. Each day or each week, even little progresses

- For toddlers, toilets are frightening. Maybe they are still frightening for him. So you can try to make them more attractive - for instance have some drawing, some book, nice seat etc so he feels welcome and comfortable ( same for Kyle of course)

Besides, it's good idea to prepare him for school. Teenagers are difficult and he might have strong reactions. Maybe something like martial arts can help for having more control and be stronger?

And one more thing : as the family is in change and everyone needs to be reassured about love and space, all symbolic elements are important : name on the door, photo on the wall, space for things etc.

Philonoe wrote:Hi kylesmom2022,

It's good that there is a space to talk and reassure Kyle
And the bubble bath, waaaaouw!

Hi Philonoe, I'm sorry for the long delay in my reply. It's been a very stressful few days but it feels like the sun is starting to come out, so to speak. Thank you so much for the additional observation, and for caring enough to post again.

Philonoe wrote:So what are read is that there is sort of time of adaptation both sides.

I've been thinking about it. Here some thoughts, not sure if they can be useful...

- If at some moment you are angry at him, you can mention it instead of expressing it or keeping it... well I don't know. For victim of trauma, it might be good to reassure at the same time.

I'd be lying if I said there aren't times when I feel anger, but mostly I feel sadness for James. He's a sweet little boy with a heart of gold, but the trauma he's endured causes him to lash out the only way he knows how. He actually broke down in therapy and tearfully apologized for "being bad."

All I could do was try to swallow my tears and reassure him that he's a good boy, and we're not mad at him. My husband was very emotional too, especially because of the guilt he feels over the years when we had to send him back to his mom's care.

[/quote]- If at some moment he express the desire to stop with dirty pants, I see two things that might help :

- it might take time, so you can notice the progresses and even write them with him. Each day or each week, even little progresses

- For toddlers, toilets are frightening. Maybe they are still frightening for him. So you can try to make them more attractive - for instance have some drawing, some book, nice seat etc so he feels welcome and comfortable ( same for Kyle of course)[/quote]

We've done this in the past and worked wonders for him. We try to initiate "sitting time" for him but he sees it as punishment because his mother used to make him sit on the toilet for hours on end. At the recommendation of his therapist, we've adjusted our approach to simply letting him know that the space is available if he wants it, but we won't force him to be in there anymore.

The one thing we've done in the past that's worked well is to allow him to take his iPad with him when he sat on the toilet. This seemed to turn the occasion into a calming, peaceful time for him each day. But upon returning to his mom's, it became a place of punishment and horrors for him and he abandoned the practice. It was almost as if his mother were sabotaging his progress on purpose. I don't know if I think she was trying to do that, but the effect was counter therapeutic.

[/quote]Besides, it's good idea to prepare him for school. Teenagers are difficult and he might have strong reactions. Maybe something like martial arts can help for having more control and be stronger? [/quote]

Yes, this has been a concern for us as well. He's a year behind in school so he'll start 6th grade when he's 12. Even though he's the oldest in his class, he's also on the smaller side so he's not the strongest. And he's dealing with a lot of emotional immaturity so he has trouble in social situations, which has led to a few instances of bullying. We'd like to get him into some kind of sport, but he seems to shy away from it as soon as it's mentioned. I think this could change with time, especially as he gains confidence in himself and his stable home life.

[/quote]And one more thing : as the family is in change and everyone needs to be reassured about love and space, all symbolic elements are important : name on the door, photo on the wall, space for things etc.[/quote]

Yes, and thank you for mentioning this. We try hard to treat the boys fairly while also respecting their individuality. Over the summer we bought them new bikes at the same time and they were so excited. At the same time, we try to celebrate the small nuances that make them unique and put a spotlight on those traits.