Our partner

Youth Rebellion

Parenting message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Youth Rebellion

Postby Twinkling Butterfly » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:27 am

This is my favorite illustration of the most difficult phase of moral development, in the words of Socrates according to his student Plato. (The discussion is actually more about education than maturation, but since this is a parenting forum, I think you'll see what I see. ;))

Font weights: Socrates—normal; Glaucon—bold.


Why great caution?
Do you not remark, I said, how great is the evil which dialectic has introduced?

What evil? he said.
The students of the art are filled with lawlessness.

Quite true, he said.
Do you think that there is anything so very unnatural or inexcusable in their case? or will you make allowance for them?

In what way make allowance?
I want you, I said, by way of parallel, to imagine a supposititious son who is brought up in great wealth; he is one of a great and numerous family, and has many flatterers. When he grows up to manhood, he learns that his alleged are not his real parents; but who the real are he is unable to discover. Can you guess how he will be likely to behave towards his flatterers and his supposed parents, first of all during the period when he is ignorant of the false relation, and then again when he knows? Or shall I guess for you?

If you please.
Then I should say, that while he is ignorant of the truth he will be likely to honour his father and his mother and his supposed relations more than the flatterers; he will be less inclined to neglect them when in need, or to do or say anything against them; and he will be less willing to disobey them in any important matter.

He will.
But when he has made the discovery, I should imagine that he would diminish his honour and regard for them, and would become more devoted to the flatterers; their influence over him would greatly increase; he would now live after their ways, and openly associate with them, and, unless he were of an unusually good disposition, he would trouble himself no more about his supposed parents or other relations.

Well, all that is very probable. But how is the image applicable to the disciples of philosophy?
In this way: you know that there are certain principles about justice and honour, which were taught us in childhood, and under their parental authority we have been brought up, obeying and honouring them.

That is true.
There are also opposite maxims and habits of pleasure which flatter and attract the soul, but do not influence those of us who have any sense of right, and they continue to obey and honour the maxims of their fathers.

True.
Now, when a man is in this state, and the questioning spirit asks what is fair or honourable, and he answers as the legislator has taught him, and then arguments many and diverse refute his words, until he is driven into believing that nothing is honourable any more than dishonourable, or just and good any more than the reverse, and so of all the notions which he most valued, do you think that he will still honour and obey them as before?

Impossible.
And when he ceases to think them honourable and natural as heretofore, and he fails to discover the true, can he be expected to pursue any life other than that which flatters his desires?

He cannot.
And from being a keeper of the law he is converted into a breaker of it?

Unquestionably.
Now all this is very natural in students of philosophy such as I have described, and also, as I was just now saying, most excusable.

Yes, he said; and, I may add, pitiable.
Therefore, that your feelings may not be moved to pity about our citizens who are now thirty years of age, every care must be taken in introducing them to dialectic.

Certainly.
There is a danger lest they should taste the dear delight too early; for youngsters, as you may have observed, when they first get the taste in their mouths, argue for amusement, and are always contradicting and refuting others in imitation of those who refute them; like puppy-dogs, they rejoice in pulling and tearing at all who come near them.

Yes, he said, there is nothing which they like better.
And when they have made many conquests and received defeats at the hands of many, they violently and speedily get into a way of not believing anything which they believed before, and hence, not only they, but philosophy and all that relates to it is apt to have a bad name with the rest of the world.

Too true, he said.
But when a man begins to get older, he will no longer be guilty of such insanity; he will imitate the dialectician who is seeking for truth, and not the eristic, who is contradicting for the sake of amusement; and the greater moderation of his character will increase instead of diminishing the honour of the pursuit.

That which is called teen angst may be only a cultural invention, but I imagine the "rebellious stage" occurs in many different cultures, its form depending on how children are raised in each one. What do you think?
Twinkling Butterfly
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 4706
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:01 pm
Local time: Wed Jun 25, 2025 6:02 am
Blog: View Blog (0)


ADVERTISEMENT

Return to Parenting Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhmadRasid and 1 guest