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Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby Endymion » Fri May 16, 2014 2:47 pm

^That's a reasonable hypothesis, in view of the concessions made by women to the established patriarchal when endeavouring to bring about the emancipation of women. The women's lib movement missed a trick. Rather than presenting a convincing alternative to patriarchy, they merely emulated men in order to compete with them. The system is unchanged; it just has mixed genitals.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby dayvancowboy1066 » Fri May 16, 2014 4:16 pm

I think because of aggressive feminism in the West adult women have become more masculine.


You aren’t distinguishing between traditional feminine ‘roles’ and what femininity implies in an aesthetic sense.

‘Femininity’ is simply another label for youthfulness; the cosmetics industry exists because it creates products which are designed to arrest the ageing process (or create that illusion). Eyeliner is a staple of the female cosmetic diet, but why is that? It allows women to increase the area of their eyes in order to mimic the relatively larger size of a pubescent’s eyes relative to her facial outline. The amount of collagen, on average, starts to decrease in a female’s late teens; it’s no coincidence that collagen is so ubiquitous in skin care products. Obviously women grow hair in adolescence too; it is not shaved off in order for women to look less masculine but as much as it is to make them look less old. If femininity and youth did not go hand-in-hand, then why are pensioners scoffed at if they wear the same makeup as their younger counterparts? They are deluded, we say, even though many middle-aged women (and even younger women) are just as deluded.

While there has been a ‘masculinization’ of female roles, the opposite is true when it comes to female looks. Older women continue to try to mimic pubescence and adolescence. The cosmetics industry has, if anything, helped women to keep on getting the attention that they used to do in their youth.

Believe me, blokes notice a females’ looks far sooner than they pick up on ‘masculine’ nuances.
The masculinisation of female roles in Western society has no bearing on this debate.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Fri May 16, 2014 5:09 pm

it's not about looks, I am talking about psychology and behaviour.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby dayvancowboy1066 » Fri May 16, 2014 6:13 pm

it's not about looks, I am talking about psychology and behaviour.


I was presuming you were talking about looks, because trying to explain away men's attraction to young teenagers because females are beginning to act more 'masculine' doesn't make sense. Men have always liked young girls, it isn't a cultural phenomenon.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Fri May 16, 2014 7:56 pm

I am explaining the rise in the attraction.

If adult women are more masculine, they will be less attractive to men.

If they are less attractive by virtue of being more masculine, then men will shift their attention to younger girls who are less so.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby dayvancowboy1066 » Fri May 16, 2014 8:09 pm

What is your evidence for this so-called 'rise in attraction' to young girls? Are you saying a rise in people admitting to the attraction?

When it comes to sheer physical attraction, cultural roles do not come into it. Unless where you live is an exception, there hasn't been such a large, wholesale shift towards 'masculinization' such that men are beginning to pay more attention to another demographic because of this.

Women assuming different roles will not have that effect on men when it comes to sexual attraction, unless there is a corresponding masculinization of their looks too (a la modern feminism with its emphasis on growing underarm hair, which is by no means widespread) which goes back to my previous point about cosmetics.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby crystal_richardson_ » Fri May 16, 2014 8:54 pm

Men have always found younger girls attractive, but the greater availability of sufficiently attractive adult women prior, and taboos against indulging attraction to younger girls, meant these attractions were largely left unindulged.

But as the result of increasing unavailability of attractive adult women today, men are turning to indulging - whether in fantasy or reality - their attraction to younger girls.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby dayvancowboy1066 » Fri May 16, 2014 9:51 pm

Although I see where you’re coming from, most men regard the adolescent years as the peak years of a woman’s physical beauty. Prohibitive age of consent laws, plus social stigma, means that this natural preference cannot be indulged anyway, regardless of how masculine older women are becoming.

Men have not only always found younger girls attractive, but also found them preeminently attractive.
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby Gerste » Tue May 20, 2014 3:21 am

Reading some of these comments, I'm aghast that so many take the presumed results of this PPG test, and the conclusion that most men are attracted to preteen girls, at face value. I reiterate, the PPG is not recognized as a valid means of gathering data within the scientific community. Its accuracy, in the best of cases, has been arbitrarily rated at 30% accuracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_ple ... -simon_1-1
This same source says,


"In the United States, a scientific technique could not be used as evidence in court unless the technique was 'generally accepted' as reliable in the relevant scientific community... In the Daubert standard, the 'generally accepted' test was no longer determinative. Several other factors could now be considered, including whether the technique had been published and peer reviewed. Myers notes, 'Courts that have considered penile plethysmography generally rule that the technique is not sufficiently reliable for use in court.'[33]
"In United States v. Powers the court excluded the penile plethysmograph test because it failed to qualify under Daubert's scientific validity prong for two reasons: the scientific literature does not regard the test as a valid diagnostic tool, and 'a vast majority of incest offenders who do not admit their guilt, such as Powers, show a normal reaction to the test. The Government argues that such false negatives render the test unreliable.' [34]
"According to Barker and Howell, penile plethysmography (PPG) does not meet the legal threshold for the guilt phase for the following reasons:[35]
"No standardization
"Test results are not sufficiently accurate
"Results are subject to faking and voluntary control by test subjects
"High incidence of false negatives and false positives
"Results are open to interpretation
"They concluded, 'Until a way can be devised to detect and/or control false negatives and false positives, the validity of the test data will be questionable.'[35] Responding to Barker and Howell, Simon and Schouten noted, 'Our own analysis suggests that the standardization and faking issues, as well as other problems not addressed in the Barker and Howell paper, warrant much more guarded conclusions about the use of the plethysmograph in legal and clinical settings.' [1] Prentky noted 'the increased likelihood in forensic settings that dissimulation may compromise the validity of the assessment.' [36] Hall and Crowther noted penile plethysmography "may be even more problematic than other [methods] in assessing susceptibility of the test to faking.[37]
"In State of North Carolina v. Spencer,[38] the court reviewed the literature and case law and concluded that penile plethysmography was scientifically unreliable: 'Despite the sophistication of the current equipment technology, a question remains whether the information emitted is a valid and reliable means of assessing sexual preference.'
"More recently, a substantial amount of research data has been gathered and reviewed, and significant steps have been taken toward standardization.[citation needed] According to Launay (1999), '[T]he validity of the technique for research and clinical assessment is now established;'[39] it is only the use in guilt-determination proceedings that is inappropriate.[citation needed] Fedoroff and Moran called it an 'experimental procedure' and noted, 'Virtually every expert who has written about phallometry has cautioned that it is insufficiently sensitive or specific to be used to determine the guilt or innocence of a person accused of a sex crime.'"


But if such a test cannot determine culpability, how can it determine propensity? It is because of this that many object to its validity regarding the determination of sexual orientation in general:

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2010/08/1 ... offenders/
Simon, W. T., & Schouten, P. G. [1992]. The plethysmograph reconsidered: Comments on Barker and Howell. Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, 20, 13-25.


It would seem that there really is no reliable, objective test (PPGs are subjective at best) which validates the assumption by many here that most men are attracted to preteen (or even teen) girls.
Are not many here simply projecting their attractions onto others? It seems that not just men here are doing that, but women as well.
This matter is further complicated by three factors, which, it seems, many are wont to overlook:
1) girls look closer full grown women than boys look to men;
2) some girls, and some boys, for that matter, look older than they are;
3) girls mature faster than boys, and that process, in the current times, may be accelerated for both genders by the presence of hormones and chemicals in our (male or female) diets.
(So far from showing that men are actually attracted to younger girls, this last point may indicate an attraction to older women, but merely a confusion of sorts in present matters: not unlike a heterosexual man's attraction to a convincing transgender male.)
I can see someone exploiting these three variables to some nefarious end.
The reasoning regarding this matter is also tendentious: if a man says he's attracted to women only, many here call him a liar; if he says he's attracted to girls, many here will call it a confirmation. It's as if many here have put the hypothesis before the proof, or reversed the order of reason, in an attempt to "confirm" this assumption. I'm attracted to boys. If I were to follow this reasoning to its logical extreme, I would have to conclude that most gays are attracted to boys as well. But why is this latter assumption deemed absurd and presumptuous, while the assumption that most heterosexual men are attracted to young girls is deemed perfectly reasonable here? I don't believe any of us here can presume to peer into the minds of most men or women. I do think that the existence of minor attracted men or women is far more prevalent than many assume, but we do not help matters by blanket assumptions and overstatements. Some of the over-reaching "explanations" for underage female attractions on the part of some men have alienated pedophiles with underage male attractions, inadvertantly (or maybe intentionally, in some cases) stigmatizing them as the real pedophiles (and the new scapegoat). Take, for example, the explanation that men go for younger girls because the latter are presumably stronger with regard to fecundity or fertility issues (which, incidentally, is patently false, since pubescent girls are notably weaker than their older counterparts). This fails to explain why men or women would be attracted to young boys or male teens. This, in fact, was why one woman, who expressed just such an attraction, stated that she felt especially strange (see in yahoo answers): because, while it is becoming more accepted that male on female pubescent (certainly not prepubescent) attractions have an evolutionary explanation (supposedly), there is not a similar explanation for her attractions towards young males. She said that this discrepancy made her feel like a freak of nature, an anomoly, which is what these one-sided, sexist "affirmations" seem to do to people like myself (and her).
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Re: Why are so many men attracted to preteens?

Postby Rigning » Tue May 20, 2014 9:48 am

The short answer to why we humans would feel an initial allure to the attracted sex of a certain age bar (and up) is because that is from when our sexuality began to emerge in ourselves. In some cases, for people with bad experiences, it may contain some of the more potent memories of security and love. None of that adds up to pedophilia, though. It just makes you human, and to be aware of that only means that you possess some quality of awareness. Pedophilia is not just an attraction, it's an unhealthy obsession.

Me, I can tend to fantasize about all the times my big sister made me sleep with her in her bed (not as in having sex). I also, subconsciously, am attracted to women who look like my big sister and share similar traits that she's had over the years, in personality and style. Her body size, face shape, hair length and color, and clothes. Whenever I see a woman with her body size wear a denim jacket I go nuts, I subconsciously think "She must be a good person," and I feel "Uh, I could hug her." Of course it's absurd to presume that this stranger would be a good person or that I could hug her from something like that, but our brains does it subconsciously anyway, and it's up to the conscious part of our brain to go "Nope, I don't know who that person is." Our brains do that because we've attached potent memories of security and love to these objects that reminds us of these people. Like my big sister, she made me feel all these good things that my mother was supposed to make me feel but never did. So, when I'm depressed, I'm drawn to my images of her for comfort.

That's just how our brains work. And going "Nope, I'm too self-righteous for that!" is not going to work.

And I don't know what that test is, I didn't bother to look at it, but it sounds stupid. That's just my personal opinion. I prefer a profound psychological route that makes sense according to a broader perhaps collective understanding.
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