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The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA *TRIGGERING*

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The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA *TRIGGERING*

Postby likewise » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:54 pm

I wanted to post this since the question was raised in another thread that was locked before I had the chance to respond.

It appears that some or all of these types of images are illegal in the US. The Supreme Court no longer holds this to be protected speech. From Wikipedia:

In response to Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, Congress passed the PROTECT Act of 2003 (also dubbed the Amber Alert Law) and it was signed into law on April 30, 2003 by then president George W. Bush. The law enacted 18 U.S.C. § 1466A, which criminalizes material that has "a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture or painting", that "depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and is "obscene" or "depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in ... sexual intercourse ... and lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value".

By its own terms, the law does not make all simulated child pornography illegal, only that found to be obscene or lacking in serious value. And mere possession of said images is not a violation of the law unless it can be proven that they were transmitted through a common carrier, such as the mail or the internet, or transported across state lines. There is also an affirmative defense made for possession of no more than two images with "reasonable steps to destroy" the images or reporting and turning over the images to law enforcement.

In Richmond, Virginia, on December 2005, Dwight Whorley was convicted under 18 U.S.C. 1466A for using a Virginia Employment Commission computer to receive "...obscene Japanese anime cartoons that graphically depicted prepubescent female children being forced to engage in genital-genital and oral-genital intercourse with adult males." He was also convicted of possessing child pornography involving real children. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.

On December 18, 2008 the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction. The court stated that "it is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists." Attorneys for Mr. Whorley have said that they will appeal to the Supreme Court. The request for rehearing was denied on June 15, 2009 and the petition for his case to be reviewed by the Supreme Court was denied on January 11, 2010.

In October 2010, a 33 year old Idaho man, Steven Kutzner, entered into a plea agreement concerning images of child characters from the American animated television show, The Simpsons engaged in sexual acts.[55][56] In January 2011, Kutzner was sentenced to serve 15 months in federal prison.


I hope that anyone who views this type of material or is thinking about it will take these facts into consideration. It doesn't seem worth having your life ruined over it.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby dan1966 » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:22 pm

Japan banning the creation and sale of this filth has been long over due, in fact, charging Japan with crimes akin to war crimes for their ten million dollar a year child porn industry has been long overdue.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby Alevi » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:38 am

I think, that were I to look for examples of american law being applied in an outrageous, irrational, insane manner...

American law in itself is problematic, for a number of reasons: Don't talk to police.

The application of american law is even worse: Filling Up Prisons Without Fighting Crime: Mark Kleiman on America's Criminal Justice System.

The point here, is that what we are ending up with, is the law being all over the place and carried out without any kind of predictability, or reason.

I mean seriously, look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartoon_porn#Cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors wrote:Cartoon pornography depicting minors
Main article: Legal status of cartoon pornography depicting minors
As of the PROTECT Act of 2003, the legal status of cartoon pornography with minors has been more thoroughly addressed and refined than it was before under the previous law of the United States. The new act made any realistic appearing computer generated depiction that is indistinguishable from a depiction of an actual minor in sexual situations or engaging in sexual acts illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 2252A. Drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and paintings of minors in sexual situations that do not pass the Miller test were made illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 1466A thus creating a loop hole around the Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition decision.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test wrote:The Miller test was developed in the 1973 case Miller v. California.[2] It has three parts:

Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by applicable state law,
Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.[3]
The work is considered obscene only if all three conditions are satisfied.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patently_offensive wrote:Patently offensive is a term used in United States law regarding obscenity and the First Amendment.

The phrase "patently offensive" first appeared in Roth v. United States, referring to any obscene acts or materials that are considered to be openly, plainly, or clearly visible as offensive to the viewing public. The Roth standard outlined what is to be considered obscene and thus not under First Amendment protection. The Roth standard was largely replaced by the Miller test established by Miller v. California (1973).

Roth standard

According to the "Roth Standard" a work is obscene if:

The dominant theme of the material taken as a whole appeals to a prurient interest in sex,
The material is patently offensive because it affronts contemporary community standards relating to the description or representation of sexual matters,
The material is utterly without redeeming social value
Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, writing for the majority, included the following definitions of what may be "patently offensive":

"Representations or descriptions of ultimate sex acts normal or perverted, actual or simulated."
"Representations or descriptions of masturbation, excretory functions, and lewd exhibitions of the genitals."


Uh, yeah.

That is insane.

EDIT: Also, where do you get "The Supreme Court no longer holds this to be protected speech.", from?
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby GinaSmith » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:41 am

***I wonder whether some of my post below might trigger. I doubt it, but don't read on if you're feeling susceptible.***

If, in the case of paintings, sculpture or literary works, one of the criteria is 'artistic merit', doesn't this turn those judging into critics? It strikes me as a ridiculous situation. Philosophers of art have a hard enough time deciding what art is and what has merit and what does not. Obscenity trials have always been characterized by such debate. Besides, the merit of a work may not be immediately obvious. Sometimes it takes time to come to the attention of the more shrewd of critics. Etc. Sometimes all it takes for merit to be established is a nice classical allusion, but what if I carve out a beautiful statue of Daphnis exploring Chloe, or Pan raping a little nymph surrounded by reeds? Is that enough to satisfy this criterion of merit (assuming the statue is genuinely well-wrought)? Or what if a work is a genuine attempt at achieving artistic merit but falls short (e.g. what if my Pan turns out crap and looks like a goat-boy shagging a little girl from behind, and there's no reed references or sign that she's meant to be Syrinx or another nymph)? Hmm.
Last edited by GinaSmith on Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby Alevi » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:59 am

Well that's why America has case law honey, so that you don't need to worry your pretty little head about stuff like "logic", or heaven forbid, "consistency".

With case law, one can simply point to an insane decision and demand to have it repeated, because hey, who cares about justice anyway?

And so the insanity accumulates.

In any event, given the ridiculous sodomy laws in America, I don't know why anybody considers American laws on the topic of sexuality to be of any relevance or concern.

The way I see it, the law is inhuman, and I am a human, hence I have no reason to take it into account.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby likewise » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:07 pm

Alevi wrote:EDIT: Also, where do you get "The Supreme Court no longer holds this to be protected speech.", from?

OK after I did some more research it turns out I was technically wrong on that, the court hasn't changed its view, but the new law was phrased in such a way as to avoid being overturned by a federal court and has not been thus far.

Alevi wrote:The way I see it, the law is inhuman, and I am a human, hence I have no reason to take it into account.

Except the one that even sociopaths have (no offense to sociopaths) that you might get caught?

The point of my post was not to argue the merits of the law, but to make people aware of what side of the law they're on. If someone is charged with one of these offenses their opinion of the law won't matter.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby Alevi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:07 am

likewise wrote:Except the one that even sociopaths have (no offense to sociopaths) that you might get caught?


It would be way cool if you clicked on any of the links that I provided.

likewise wrote:The point of my post was not to argue the merits of the law, but to make people aware of what side of the law they're on.


I didn't know the law had sides, I though everybody were criminals.
But if you can draw some conformist-masturbatory satisfaction from brainwashing yourself into thinking that you are a law-abiding citizen - which neither you nor anybody else are - then I think that would be the fetish-forum.

In my view though, one or two examples of seemingly insane sentences - for which you, surprise surprise, do not provide any background for or have any insight into (the simpsons case especially) - does not mean "it's illegal", nor does it mean "you will be punished for this".

All of this said, I do think that one should strive to obey the law in general, as it reflects the common perception of what is good and fair and just, and that should be respected.

But I don't think the law should be respected in and of itself, and I don't think it should be exempt from scrutiny and evaluation, but that as with all things in life, one should also think about whether the law is right.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA *TRIGGERING*

Postby jasmin » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:59 am

Please remember to put *triggering* or *potentially triggering* in the title of threads like these, guys.
forum-rules.php
I am sorry I am not on the forum as much as I used to be, if I do not reply to you quickly, please contact another moderator/supermod/admin as well.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby likewise » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:19 pm

Alevi wrote:But if you can draw some conformist-masturbatory satisfaction from brainwashing yourself into thinking that you are a law-abiding citizen - which neither you nor anybody else are - then I think that would be the fetish-forum.

Nothing of the sort. I didn't come in here to moralize, I gave that line of work up a long time ago. I just think that if people want to view this material they should be informed of the potential risks. That' all. The law can be arbitrary and capricious, as you point out, so people have to be very careful of what they open themselves up to. The fact that everyone is susceptible to being run over by a truck through no fault of their own doesn't mean that they should all lie down in traffic.
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Re: The illegality of cartoon CP in the USA

Postby Alevi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:10 pm

likewise wrote:I just think that if people want to view this material they should be informed of the potential risks.


Legal status of cartoon pornography depicting minors, in the US.

...mere possession of said images is not a violation of the law unless it can be proven that they were transmitted through a common carrier, such as the mail or the internet, or transported across state lines.
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