We have to be better than this.

Platypus wrote:... "career criminal" is an English expression referring to havitual offenders.

Well, taking the statistical view, it is more interesting to consider the mean rather than extreme outliers.
Considering Recidivism Rates for Sex Offenders, it would appear that rehabilitation works better than average for this type of criminal.
I speculate, because the WILL to rehabilitate is stronger than, say, for a drug dealer or robber.

Platypus wrote:Agreed. But perhaps not everyone can be helped? Or perhaps we simply do not yet know how to help these people yet?

Perhaps he was psychopathic or sociopathic?

In my view, extreme cases of offenders have a lot of things going wrong for them, all contributing to the resulting mess.

Psychopaths, or as they are now called, people with anti-social personality disorders, can be very nice people.
As long as they want to be, and they don't get messed with.
So I guess I'm returning to my point, which is that we as members of a society all have a little bit of responsibility in helping make sure things don't go wrong.
In that regards, the attitude "the professionals will / should deal with it" becomes a requirement for a person to commit a crime before they get any help.

Which is silly.

Platypus wrote:Ah sorry Gina, I did not read thoroughly enough and caught your quote out of context.

No problem Platypus!

Platypus wrote:In practice, can society have the view that "the 22-year-old has committed a crime and it's right he should be punished" whilst simultaneously believing that the 13-year-old is not a victim?

Exactly. I believe that where it is clear the 13-year-old was sexually aware, sexually curious and willingly initiates the act, society endeavours to work harder to create the victim that a crime this (supposedly) heinous should result in. She's not bothered about it (in this hypothetical scenario), but that doesn't tally at all with society's view that this 22-year-old man is an insatiable monster and child molestor. And yet at 13 she may well possess all the qualities needed to attract a male teleiophile, both in the active and passive sense. Society's only recourse is to edit the narrative surrounding the incident to create the story that best befits its ideological stance on the issue.

Platypus wrote:I'm trying to think of comparable crimes where it is accepted that there is a criminal but no victim.

Surely you have heard the term "victimless crimes" before, no? E.g. getting high on pot or going through a stop light when there is no traffic. There are many others, like two underagers making love. Read this bizarre story of the 13yo girl charged as both victim AND offender in the same case involving her 12-year-old boyfriend. They were victims alright - of the legal system.

Shrink Rap wrote:Surely you have heard the term "victimless crimes" before, no? E.g. getting high on pot or going through a stop light when there is no traffic.

Hmm, I thought that "victimless crimes" usually only involve one person? Perhaps I worded it badly, but I meant:
'I'm trying to think of a crime where one person acts out on another, but where the person acted upon is not considered a victim.'

Shrink Rap wrote:There are many others, like two underagers making love. Read this bizarre story of the 13yo girl charged as both victim AND offender in the same case involving her 12-year-old boyfriend.

It would appear from the article that in society's view this is most definitely not a victimless crime - rather that both children were victims.

Alevi wrote: Prison Nation / The Machine

I know I'm a page late (jesus this place moves insanely fast as of late) but holy $#%^, how did this find its way here? Everyone read it please. Read like, half of it. Bookmark it and read it later, send it to your friends, this is one of those major overarching narratives that Pedo Issues fits into quite nicely but it's also just highly important for anyone who might find themselves in the US at some point in their lives. When you're talking about the justice system, it's important to understand its function, and this is the closest you'll get to a concise summary. Sorry if this seems like a derail but it's important to understand that we're ultimately dealing with a monster that owns everything we can see.

Platypus wrote:Hmm, I thought that "victimless crimes" usually only involve one person? Perhaps I worded it badly, but I meant:
'I'm trying to think of a crime where one person acts out on another, but where the person acted upon is not considered a victim.'

Voluntary prostitution is certainly a victimless crime involving more than one person, as is viewing child pornography.

Shrink Rap wrote:There are many others, like two underagers making love. Read this bizarre story of the 13yo girl charged as both victim AND offender in the same case involving her 12-year-old boyfriend.

It would appear from the article that in society's view this is most definitely not a victimless crime - rather that both children were victims.

Victims of whom?

Shrink Rap wrote:

Platypus wrote:Hmm, I thought that "victimless crimes" usually only involve one person? Perhaps I worded it badly, but I meant:
'I'm trying to think of a crime where one person acts out on another, but where the person acted upon is not considered a victim.'

Voluntary prostitution is certainly a victimless crime involving more than one person, as is viewing child pornography.

Shrink Rap wrote:There are many others, like two underagers making love. Read this bizarre story of the 13yo girl charged as both victim AND offender in the same case involving her 12-year-old boyfriend.

It would appear from the article that in society's view this is most definitely not a victimless crime - rather that both children were victims.

Victims of whom?

Voluntary Prostitution is not a victimless crime, if you have ever seen the life long scares it leaves on protitutes and the unwanted children as well passing around STD"S,
Same with viewing child porongraphy, a child somewhere was badly abused somewhere to make those pictures and will suffer life long trama as a result
Not to mention the cost to society in dealing with these matters

JeffreyA wrote:

Shrink Rap wrote:Voluntary prostitution is certainly a victimless crime involving more than one person, as is viewing child pornography.

It would appear from the article that in society's view this is most definitely not a victimless crime - rather that both children were victims.

Victims of whom?

Voluntary Prostitution is not a victimless crime, if you have ever seen the life long scares it leaves on protitutes and the unwanted children as well passing around STD"S,
Same with viewing child porongraphy, a child somewhere was badly abused somewhere to make those pictures and will suffer life long trama as a result
Not to mention the cost to society in dealing with these matters

Have you got anything to back up your claims?

Try reading this:
Not all sex workers are victims

New laws on prostitution are sexist – being paid for sex does not objectify me any more than working in a low wage job did

or this:
‘I never want to be rescued again’

Melissa Ditmore argues that some anti-trafficking responses are making conditions more dangerous for voluntary sex workers.

If someone was abused in the making of child pornography, it has no effect upon them if someone sees a photo of it decades later. Looking at a photo, even of a crime scene, should not be a crime, and in any event it is certainly victimless.

Same with viewing child porongraphy, a child somewhere was badly abused somewhere to make those pictures and will suffer life long trama as a result not to mention the cost to society in dealing with these matters

Look at Japan ( I know he's Japan bashing again) but their CP industry is a multi-million dollar a year affair.

http://www.topix.com/forum/world/japan/T4TGM9NM0FMM98U26

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB23Aa02.html

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/japan.htm

dan1966 wrote:http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/japan.htm

One third of all reported cases of prostitution are teenagers.

Right, of all reported cases, many of which are japanese teenagers who themselves willingly accept a bit of cash on the side as an added benefit of being women and therefore having the opportunity to go out with older men, where both parties can relax and not have any illusions of the other person expecting some kind of commitment.

Sounds perfect, really.
I do wish men could have such excellent opportunities for gaining sexual experience, and get paid for it too.

dan1966 wrote:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JB23Aa02.html

Won't somebody please think of the innocent little drops of ink, violently abused on page after page etc. ad nauseam

I don't get it dan, I really don't.

Do you for some reason think that all of the guys "reading" hentai are pedophiles?
And that they, being pedophiles, are unable to distinguish between fiction and reality?
Like how violence shown on TV has been proven to cause so many homocides in America?

Look dude, you need to take it easy and sit down and think a little bit.
What does it ACTUALLY say, when so much pornography with a focus on teenagers and teens (no, you don't get to apply the american definition of a "child" to Japan) is published, and yet it doesn't lead to an increase in molestations?

No, I don't get it.

Is it simply your attitude, which is mostly cemented on a fundament of "drugs are bad, mmmkay?"?

EDIT: Okay, Japan's definition of "child" seems to be "a PERSON under 18", but in my defense, it's hard to read such a blatantly opinionated article without your brain getting hiccups.
"The current child pornography laws in Japan do not regulate manga and art that depict children who are not real".

"Children-who-are-not-real". Words fail me.
So thank GOD for youtube: Doug Stanhope: Fetus Pornography

Do you know WHY a picture of a fetus is not defined as pornography?

BECAUSE IT IS NOT A PERSON.

And neither are "children-who-are-not-real", or as I like to call them: pixels & ink.