sexual sadism- nature vs. nurture

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:I put blame on the meds and not on him. This made it easier for him to re-adjust. Would this approach work with your husband?

That's a great strategy but I don't think it would matter with my husband. The simple fact of the matter is that I find him boring in bed and his sex drive is too weak to fulfill me. Even if I talk to him about my needs the only response I get is "I'm so sorry honey but I can't make myself want it that often and I can't force myself to be adventurous because then I would just hate the sex and be tolerating it for you." (that applies to all forms of adventurous not just BDSM).

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:Is there any way that you can express your needs for attention and affection in the context of his hobbies?

I've tried but he just gets broody. He says he's trying but I can't see it. He says he's not the person he used to be and doesn't know how to get back what he has lost inside. He tells me he cares and wants to make me happy but just can't right now because of his own internal issues.

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:...and how long have the two of you been together and/or married, anyway?

We've been together 17 years! I was 15 when we met in school. We had broken up a couple times briefly and I had other relationships but we got back together.

Sintara wrote:
We've been together 17 years! I was 15 when we met in school. We had broken up a couple times briefly and I had other relationships but we got back together.

That may be much of the problem.

Also is never being adequately sexually fulfilled something you're okay with? Quite possibly for the rest of your life?

17 years..? Holy shhh....

Oh dear God.

I...um...don't know!

Just about the only other thing that I can suggest that would fulfill YOUR sexual needs (control) and HIS need (whether he realizes it or not) to get out of his funk is this:

Make him "pay the rent in human kindness." Tell him that he's gotta step up and start paying up/laying up or he's out.

I mean, it sounds cruel, but if you've already exhausted every other possibility--what else can ya do?
{EDIT:} I don't have that kind of leverage with my fiance--he's the one who has the financial leverage, he's too stubborn for this approach to begin with, and I love him too damn much. I've done this in other relationships, though!


...But even that wouldn't give you the intimacy you need.

I'm officially out of ideas!

insincerity...what was that you were saying about manipulating men into having sex with you? Because now would be a really good time to elaborate on that!

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:17 years..? Holy shhh....

Oh dear God.

I...um...don't know!

Just about the only other thing that I can suggest that would fulfill YOUR sexual needs (control) and HIS need (whether he realizes it or not) to get out of his funk is this:

Make him "pay the rent in human kindness." Tell him that he's gotta step up and start paying up/laying up or he's out.

I mean, it sounds cruel, but if you've already exhausted every other possibility--what else can ya do?
{EDIT:} I don't have that kind of leverage with my fiance--he's the one who has the financial leverage, he's too stubborn for this approach to begin with, and I love him too damn much. I've done this in other relationships, though!


...But even that wouldn't give you the intimacy you need.

I'm officially out of ideas!

insincerity...what was that you were saying about manipulating men into having sex with you? Because now would be a really good time to elaborate on that!

Easiest way - say that the lack of sex is demolishing your self-confidence, undermining your body image, and causing you to feel deeply depressed. Point out how few times you've had sex over the last 17 years and how long you've been concealing your depression because you thought it'd make him feel bad, but that you can't take it any more and you've even thought of suicide. Continue on with this charade until he gives in. Assuming he loves you (which given that he's been with you for 17 years without having sex with you is a pretty safe assumption) even if he personally dislikes sex he'll feel motivated to at least try very hard during it and to have it more often.

That might actually work. Make him care about you for a change. Seems like it would be a way to trigger any concern he might have for you. And if he doesn't have any, then what's the point? If you want a pet, you have all your little ones who need you and love you. Might help his self-confidence, too, since he would see himself as helping you. Might even encourage him to take on other things. I know, I know, hopes & dreams...

I personally don't favor manipulation, since my relationship is based on trust. Also, I generally tackle things head-on. But as a last-ditch effort, it's worth considering...

insincerity wrote:Easiest way - say that the lack of sex is demolishing your self-confidence, undermining your body image, and causing you to feel deeply depressed. Point out how few times you've had sex over the last 17 years and how long you've been concealing your depression because you thought it'd make him feel bad, but that you can't take it any more and you've even thought of suicide. Continue on with this charade until he gives in. Assuming he loves you (which given that he's been with you for 17 years without having sex with you is a pretty safe assumption) even if he personally dislikes sex he'll feel motivated to at least try very hard during it and to have it more often.

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:That might actually work. Make him care about you for a change. Seems like it would be a way to trigger any concern he might have for you. And if he doesn't have any, then what's the point? If you want a pet, you have all your little ones who need you and love you. Might help his self-confidence, too, since he would see himself as helping you. Might even encourage him to take on other things. I know, I know, hopes & dreams...

I've actually tried that. It made things worse. This was back when we were still having sex occasionally. I told him I felt bad about myself and thought I wasn't good enough for him and it was making me depressed. He said that made him feel like there was even more pressure to have sex and that the pressure made it impossible for him. He couldn't live with the fact that he let me down so he got more depressed and withdrawn. He beat himself up for failing me and was in the mood even less.

insincerity wrote:Also is never being adequately sexually fulfilled something you're okay with? Quite possibly for the rest of your life?

I guess that's what I'm really trying to figure out. I'm just so torn though. I love my husband. He needs me. If I left I'd be abandoning him because of his mental problems when he's been there for me during mine. We are good together in a lot of areas and I would be loosing that if I left.
On the other hand, if I stay I give up sexually fulfillment. I have to take care of him like a child forever. I have to put up with his mood swings, over-sensitivity and other general crap.
I guess if I knew for sure that things would stay like this forever I'd leave, but he keeps talking about how he hates how he is and wants to change. He keeps trying different meds for his Bipolar disorder and he's been talking about counseling finally. I know a lot of his problems are caused from mental disorder and childhood abuse so I think he could overcome them and I would feel like an ass if I didn't stick by his side and try to help him overcome them.
So, no, I'm not happy, but I feel stuck.

The logical step forward would be to cheat, but you might not be okay with that, which is understandable.

It's good that he's at least thinking about getting counseling. Wait, all this time he wasn't in counseling??? He's just seeing a psychiatrist for his meds and refused to see a counselor?

I've been putting off asking this question because I didn't even want to plant the idea in your head, but since we're talking about manipulation...are you absolutely, 100% sure that he's not playing you?

FrayedEndOfSanity wrote:It's good that he's at least thinking about getting counseling. Wait, all this time he wasn't in counseling??? He's just seeing a psychiatrist for his meds and refused to see a counselor?

I've been putting off asking this question because I didn't even want to plant the idea in your head, but since we're talking about manipulation...are you absolutely, 100% sure that he's not playing you?

Doesn't really sound like she's being played, then again, we don't really have enough data to go off of. If he really wanted to play her, I could already think of better ways of manipulating her just from the information in this thread. Also, most people (in general) aren't soulless enough to play games over 17 years (though I personally admire anyone with the grit not to get bored after that long).

Individual AND couples therapy would be helpful, imo. Couples therapy has really helped my wife and I communicate more openly, air complaints without getting too defensive, and be a little more motivated (by our love for each other) to improve and change. It's no magic cure, but it's helped us quite a bit. You may have to shop around for the right counselor, as we did. My wife thought our first counselor was too quiet, not involved enough. Our second (and current) counselor gives us much more input. I liked both, but it's important that each spouse clicks well-enough with their psychologist.