Q for the sexually abused

I sense another pointless consent argument coming. Yipee! maybe YRR will respond and maybe cop this will jump in and we can go around in circles for a while! Woo!

Erastes wrote:It's a well-known scientific FACT that people under the age of consent cannot consent and are therefore harmed irrevocably by ANY sexual activity engaged in, no matter how willing they were. It's also FACT that messages from society have no measurable influence on how people feel about their experiences. Adult-child relationships with any hint of attraction are exploitative, and when a minor experiences any form of sexual pleasure with an adult it gets translated into trauma so considerable it has to be repressed, sometimes for decades. I'm not good with science and so I can't cite concrete evidence, but it's definitely proven fact, and so anyone who argues otherwise is a moron and is basically advocating child rape!!!

It is nothing of the sort. The age of consent is 14 in Germany/Greece/Italy. How then can it be harmful for a 14 yr old to engage in consensual sex in the US and UK where it is not in the above mentioned countries?

I began gay cruising at 13. I was one of many. Reflections of gay life in the media of the 90's frequently involved adolescents and adults at it. For example the original UK version of Queer As Folk was about a 15 yr old having sex with 20somethings, Get Real featured a schoolboy cottaging (like me). This was never unusual. My story is almost exactly identical to this film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnXvYJwC3vU

I am OK with science so I can cite the Rind meta analysis on male intergenerational sex, Matthew Waites book The Age Of Consent and Robert Epstien's book The Case Against Adolescence.

I also quote German Sexologist Erwin Haeberle "All human beings, whether female or male, who are ready to reproduce are ready to have sex. The age, gender, or sexual orientation of their partners is relevant only in so far as the particular societies in which they live make them an issue. Our present Western societies have, over the last few decades chosen to become more and more arbitrarily restrictive in this regard. Seemingly objective terms like the now fashionable “hebephilia” are moral judgments in scientific disguise. And so is the general term "paraphilia". They are tools of social control. As for me, I prefer not to belong to this kind of controllers"

And the founder of Sexology Alfred Kinsey who said "The only unnatural sex act is the one you cannot perform"

And Wilhelm Reich Who said "We are living through a true revolution of all values regarding sexual life. And among those values most seriously undermined are those relating to infant and adolescent sexuality."

And finally mother nature, who, through millions of years of evolution programmed our very DNA with who is to be sexual or not. We call this puberty.

Oh and another quote from Rober Epstien "But the fact is some, and perhaps even many 13 year olds are ready for sex and even ready for deep love and marriage"

http://drrobertepstein.com/pdf/Epstein% ... isphpreq=1

sprooglestrewft wrote:

MikeGer wrote:Calm down Erastes. It's not that easy. You can see that, if you think about different countries having different ages of consent

It sounds like he was being sarcastic.

It's clear now he was. I can't blame those of us - even me at first - who didn't get it because such thing can be hard to get across online.

Mustelidae wrote:I sense another pointless consent argument coming. Yipee! maybe YRR will respond and maybe cop this will jump in and we can go around in circles for a while! Woo!

Not me matey! I know when to stick my oar in, and my time is as precious to me as it might be to many others.

Although, if Kinsey said this:

"The only unnatural sex act is the one you cannot perform"

Then that confirms in my mind that he was an idiot!

I am just going to go ahead and say this and I honestly don't care what anyone says or thinks about it but I know for a fact that children can consent to have sex and anyone that thinks that they cannot then really don't know much about anything.

If children as young as 2 years old can shoot their grandmother in the back or a 3 year old can shoot his brother or sister or parent then how can you not think a child doesn't know that something doesn't feel good or does feel good and if you ask that child if they want to do more that they don't have the thought process to say yes or no? If you don't think that is true then I feel sorry you think that way and I am not saying this just because I am a Pedophile but its just human nature and what people want or don't want and that can be said about kids as well.

Kids are so much smarter than we give them credit for and if you don't think they are then I feel sorry for your way of thinking.

I don’t buy that at all. People below the age of consent are children and cannot consent, no matter how we dress it up.

Well, the age of consent is a legal thing, right? So on the one day they are not ready, and on the other they are? What about youngsters who reach age of consent and still are not ready?

Papergirl said it well. Psychology works differently. I am not a psychologist, but that is what I tried to explain. It's about probability.

The problem is you are making general statements. That means that they are true, in EVERY case. That cannot be true. It is always a matter of probability.

The pro-pedo lot are disgusting. They say that society’s messages can harm kids who had otherwise perfectly willing, benign, pleasurable experiences with people they felt comfortable with.

Maybe many do, I don't know that. But I know that one of the "better" arguments is the one I mentioned. It's about the hysterical sides of society that damage kids as well. And I cannot disagree here. This doesn't touch only sex with children, it goes further beyond. It's about how victims are treated by the police or in trials, it's about lies and shame because others treat them differently. And suddenly we are in areas where 5yo kindergarden-kids are accused of molestation because they hugged their kindergarden-nurse (whatever you call them). 10yos' are accused because they tried some things with equal old friends and so on. We are hysterical about it. Be angry, but not hysterical. Hysterie clouds your mind. And that damages kids as well.

What I don't like about this thing is, that many use that as an argument FOR sex with children, because it isn't. There is a jump in the logics. Just because the above mentioned things are true, doesn't make sex with kids non-dangerous. If that is true or not, is a completely different game. Hence: My initial first reply to the OP.

Oh, by the way. I am talking of children. Not young teens. Since I am german... well, I think 14 is a good age to start that. Just so that we are on the same page: In Germany the age below 14 CANNOT consent, from 14-16 they can consent to have sex with people to the age of 21 and with 16 they can pretty much do whatever they want.

I'd love to write more, but I just got bad news from family and I won't visit the board for quite some time, I guess. Please have fun