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Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

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Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby cop this » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:52 pm

I thought I might as well start a thread to discuss this.

The following information comes from the eight arousability studies in adults to child sexual stimili that Sarah Goode cites in her book Understanding and Addressing Adult Sexual Attraction to Children, 2010, and there probably are some others too. A summary of the studies (quoting from Goode) and a few possible reasons for such attractions:

The five studies:

    Freund and Costell, 1970 - 48 Czech soldiers - 58% showed penile responses to images of young children.

    Quinsey et al, 1975 - no numbers of participants given - 50% had erections to images of young children.

    Freund and Watson, 1991 - no numbers given - 19% 'misclassified' as having an erotic preference to minors in a plethysmography study.

    Fedora et al, 1992 - 66 males from hospital staff and the community - 17% showed a penile response that was paedophilic.

    Nagayama Hall et al, 1995 - 80 male volunteers from general population - 20% self-reported paedophilic interest; 26.5% exhibited penile response to such material.

The three surveys:

    Briere and Runtz, 1989 - nearly 200 university males - 21% reported some sexual attraction to small children; 9% described sexual fantasies involving children; 5% admitted to having masturbated to sexual fantasies of young children; 7% indicated they might have sex with a child if not caught.

    Smiljanich and Briere, 1996 - 279 undergraduates (99 male, 188 female) - 22% of males, and 3% of females, admitted some sexual attraction to little children. 14% of the males used child pornography; whilst 4% admitted masturbating to fantasies involving children; 3% admitted they would have sex with a child if undetected. 4% of the females admitted to using child pornography with none in either of the other two categories.

    Becker-Blease et al, 2006 - 531 undergraduate males - 7% admitted a sexual attraction to 'little children'; 18% admitted to sexual fantasies of children; 8% masturbated to these fantasies; 4% admitted they would have sex with a child if not caught.

So, these were just arousability studies, and they don't necessarily indicate these people were paedophiles. Some possible reasons why some adults are sexually aroused by sexual material involving younger children:

1. There were problems with the studies - i.e., the methodology, selection of subjects (only sex-offenders perhaps), and possible priming effects during or before the studies.

2. The lack of such images in the general media, or their availability in general. It does seem to be a tendency that humans are more drawn to what is unusual - the exotic - than to the familiar, and giving these more attention - see 9. Also, perhaps we still have the influences from our Victorian past, making even nudity of children taboo - see 6.

3. Possible priming from previous exposure to erotic fiction - e.g., Fanny Hill, Walter, Lolita, etc., or from the many films that have similar content, i.e., any having erotic content featuring children, or perhaps from adult pornography that often evokes a young image - Lolita, Schoolgirl, Teen babe, etc.

4. The Primary/Secondary sexual attraction theory, which might account for this, i.e., that there has been a prior sexual attraction to prepubescents, and is subsequently invoked whilst looking at the images or listening to erotica. Since some of the studies involve undergraduates, they will presumably be quite young, and this theory will make it more likely for these subjects to be affected rather than those older.

5. The naughtiness or badness of the images, provoking a reaction. The prosecutions of some art photographers, often reported in the media, and the detailed reporting of child rape cases might have an effect here. It is not as if there is an abundance of such images in the media, and any associations are generally negative. These kinds of images may be numerous but they are not casually found - not before the internet arrived, at least.

6. Some people apparently are aroused by simple nudity, which perhaps comes from item 2, or from religious beliefs. Was this screened for in the studies? Perhaps someone could do some studies with naturists and non-naturists (as it seems many naturists can sublimate their sexual impulses), or with some of the primitive tribes. This should at least rule out simple nudity as a factor.

7. It is quite likely, given the numbers of males who view pornography, that many males will objectify any image subject, and not concern themselves with the reality, as when viewing child images. Possibly they will know that any kind of sexual activity with a child would be wrong, but they might be able to disconnect and indulge in fantasy whilst being aroused by any images - an element of freedom to do or be what one wants.

8. Another factor that might play a role is testosterone and the sexual lives of the subjects. Those with a more active sexual life or having more testosterone perhaps being more likely to respond to any stimuli - the new being more exciting to spice up their existing sex lives.

9. This might be part of 8, that males (and females) are more likely to be aroused by those things that are new to them rather than those they are already familiar with (the novelty bias), but this will also possibly apply to any adult stimuli. The amount of adult pornography available might have an affect here in that perhaps many are becoming habituated to this.

10. The affects of other children in the early environment might play a role. Some work by Cantor has suggested that the youngest of siblings will be more likely to develop paedophilia, or to commit sexual offences concerning children to be correct, and this too might have an effect here. Having no younger siblings, some might not develop the nurturing that often takes place towards those younger, and hence be more open to sexual feelings towards them. This could be reflected in their responses to the material used in the studies.

11. An additional reason might be the way we either identify with the victim or perpetrator, since this is often the case - some imagining themselves in one particular role rather than the other.

12. Lastly, perhaps many still have the belief that children are inherently innocent, so the eroticism of innocence versus sex might have an effect for some.

The wide range of those affected in the eight studies must suggest something, since it is just not possible to take any of these at face value without querying the data and searching for possible reasons for there being such disparities. Goode did suggest that surveys would likely lead to under-reporting due to the stigma of doing so, but why would we use any one of these as reliably reflecting reality, and representative of all adult males. And, even if, as Goode suggested, a minimum of 20% do show such reactions to child sexual stimuli, are we to therefore conclude they must be paedophiles or latent paedophiles when I have given several reasons why this might not be the case. I am sure others might find additional reasons.
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby cop this » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:52 am

No comments? Tut, tut!

Perhaps the following, questionable no doubt, might also be relevant to the issue:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ougov.html

If one can be so 'plastic' with one's sexuality, why would it seem so improbable that what we imbibe will have such different affects on us?
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby RecoveringSO » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:32 pm

Another point to consider, in relation to which you are speaking (though from a different angle), are studies done on homophobics who responded positively to both heterosexual and homosexual (female and male). All subjects in these studies, both hetero and homo, experienced degrees of arousal while viewing guy on guy porn.

Does that make everyone gay?

What, specifically, does this study indicate? Does it indicate that X percentage of men experienced increased arousal towards child images; or only arousal? We have very little control over our libido; and as one guy I met once put it, "You put images of sex for someone to view, you're going to get a reaction, I don't care WHAT it is."
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby cop this » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:00 pm

RecoveringSO wrote:Another point to consider, in relation to which you are speaking (though from a different angle), are studies done on homophobics who responded positively to both heterosexual and homosexual (female and male). All subjects in these studies, both hetero and homo, experienced degrees of arousal while viewing guy on guy porn.

Does that make everyone gay?

What, specifically, does this study indicate? Does it indicate that X percentage of men experienced increased arousal towards child images; or only arousal? We have very little control over our libido; and as one guy I met once put it, "You put images of sex for someone to view, you're going to get a reaction, I don't care WHAT it is."


Quite. Some on this forum seem to dismiss any relationship between our fantasies and any resultant action (consumption of virtual child pornography, for example), but fail to see the same when perhaps child images are presented to many who would not be paedophiles. They may have had, or have fantasies involving children - invoked by the images - but does this represent a true sexual attraction - or just the extremes of our fantasies? I think I have posted this link before:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/which-sex ... al-2014-10

The numbers having fantasies concerning young children is decidedly at odds with most of the studies cited earlier, but the numbers having many of the other fantasies should be noted.
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby YouthRightsRadical » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:11 am

cop this wrote:No comments? Tut, tut!

It's really just that you're boring. The new guy hasn't seen your schtick before, so you're getting a little more attention than you usually do, but the rest of us have moved on from your antics a long time ago.
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby cop this » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:54 am

YouthRightsRadical wrote:
cop this wrote:No comments? Tut, tut!

It's really just that you're boring. The new guy hasn't seen your schtick before, so you're getting a little more attention than you usually do, but the rest of us have moved on from your antics a long time ago.


Boring! I thought that was your forte - what with your endless dross, same old, same old, pedo propaganda, imbibed from the clan and spewed forth to the faithful, who hardly ever question it, hardly a thinking one amongst them. You must be so proud to have such support. Idiot!
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby RecoveringSO » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:11 pm

cop this wrote:
RecoveringSO wrote:Another point to consider, in relation to which you are speaking (though from a different angle), are studies done on homophobics who responded positively to both heterosexual and homosexual (female and male). All subjects in these studies, both hetero and homo, experienced degrees of arousal while viewing guy on guy porn.

Does that make everyone gay?

What, specifically, does this study indicate? Does it indicate that X percentage of men experienced increased arousal towards child images; or only arousal? We have very little control over our libido; and as one guy I met once put it, "You put images of sex for someone to view, you're going to get a reaction, I don't care WHAT it is."


Quite. Some on this forum seem to dismiss any relationship between our fantasies and any resultant action (consumption of virtual child pornography, for example), but fail to see the same when perhaps child images are presented to many who would not be paedophiles. They may have had, or have fantasies involving children - invoked by the images - but does this represent a true sexual attraction - or just the extremes of our fantasies? I think I have posted this link before:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/which-sex ... al-2014-10

The numbers having fantasies concerning young children is decidedly at odds with most of the studies cited earlier, but the numbers having many of the other fantasies should be noted.


I submit that most people have fantasies that they'd rather never speak of about things that they would never even consider doing in real life. The existence of a fantasy and the existence of arousal to given stimuli or behaviors is only indicative of our human natures, and not deterministic of who we are as individuals.
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby cop this » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:31 pm

One of the problems with these studies is in teasing out any differences between those who responded to the stimuli and those who didn't, and also between those who did, since what happens in the mind is rarely straightforward. The reasons why one person might be sexually aroused will possibly not be the same as for another person. For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/ ... Sex Differences in Response to Visual Sexual Stimuli: A Review (about any differences between the responses of men and women))

"The inconsistency between physiological measures and reports of subjective sexual arousal may suggest that physiological changes on their own are not the only events subjects use to assess sexual stimuli. ... Thus, we do not yet know the exact relationship between subjective and physical sexual arousal, which is a complex process emerging from multiple cognitive and physiological components. ... The cognitive component of sexual arousal in response to visual sexual stimuli is a critical aspect of the sexual arousal response in humans needing further investigation."

Some comments for the points I listed:

1. The role of simple nudity: If one lived in a relatively less-developed tribe, say in the Amazon, do we really think that nudity would bother them at all? They may have customs such that nudity is not always on display, but, probably being brought up in such an environment, it is unlikely that they would respond with sexual excitement, unlike many of us in the 'civilised' world. It is a fact of life (for many of us in the West) that there are now, and it has been so for quite a while, no nude images of children commonly seen, although we know they can be found, even in published books. As I mentioned in my list, we do tend to take more notice of that which is new to our environment rather than that which is common. Those investigating various aspects of the behaviour and responses of very young babies tend to rely on this fact to ascertain their level of interest in various things. Various other influences, such as religion, culture, or the laws of a particular country, might also influence how we might respond to such nudity. The association between nudity and sex is unfortunately still very much a factor for many. Hence, even simple nudity (of a child), for some, would fall into the category of 'new' and possibly 'exotic' experiences.

2. The 'naughty' factor: In most Western societies, the depiction of nude children is invariably seen as 'harmful', even if this is from a protection point of view and not necessarily helpful. Such images are not entirely absent from the media - in some films for example and photographic art books - but they are not plentiful, and they often are associated with illicit behaviour or suchlike - the film Pretty Baby, for example. For many maturing after the advent of the internet, the almost constant news concerning child pornography and those apprehended will tend to emphasise the 'naughty' or 'harmful' nature of such images.

3. The 'erotic scale' effect: Where the more illicit, unusual, or depraved an activity, the more it might provoke a sexual response - the notion (held by some long ago) that having sex with virgins could cure impotence, for example. Or, the fact that many are drawn into gang-rapes after it starts. There was a case in the USA (allegedly) where a 7-year-old girl was involved in one case (apparently at an adult/adolescent party), and it is unlikely that all involved were paedophiles, or child-molesters, if you like, and were probably opportunists sexually aroused by what was happening. In the UK, many years ago there was the case of a 10-year-old girl who had full sexual relationships with five family members and two friends of the family. Again, I doubt all were paedophiles, but opportunists. I don't know the details but I doubt she had much of a voice in what happened, although YRR no doubt will opine she was just exercising her inalienable sexual rights. Perhaps the fact that there is much more explicit and varied sexual behaviour depicted in pornography on the internet, appeasing an ever more voracious and habituated audience, is one indicator of this 'erotic scale' effect happening. How long does it take to become bored with the same level of explicitness in sexual images?

4. The 'disconnect' affect: In that many, particularly males, will objectify any sexualised images of people, and treat them purely as stimulation for sexual arousal and fantasies. Where, of course, having sex with a child might promote the most extreme and most arousing fantasies, even if they were essentially normal heterosexuals. Many tend to like a bit of fantasy, even when having sex with an adult partner.

5. We know it is convenient to use undergraduates in studies, often being compliant and a cheap means of obtaining data, but they will not necessarily be representative of the population at large, especially in such matters as sexual interests or responses. The survey linked to earlier concerning the extent of homosexual feelings or experiences shows that those younger tend to be less fixed in their sexuality. Another factor that will likely skew results is the advent of the internet. It is known that many, or most of the young will, and have been, downloading vast amounts of copyrighted material, and in with this often will be a tendency to download child pornography simply because it is available and they are curious. Hence, the latest generation might be affected more than other ones because of this. Most of the studies and surveys were carried out prior to the internet's arrival but a few weren't, including possibly the Hall et al study.

6. The study involving the Czech soldiers, hardly being representative, will probably have problems too. Most army advertising relies on the 'excitement' aspect to recruit members, so drawing in a particular type of person. It is also likely that, since rape has been a staple for many soldiers during conflicts - Berlin at the end of WW II, for example - it is also likely that gossip of what happens tends to pass around recruits, even the rape of children, which again is quite common in conflicts. Hence, the soldiers might be more susceptible to sexual fantasies involving children.

So, are we to take any of these studies as gospel, when even the self-reports are possibly not representative of the population at large:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... tic_Review

"It has been found in some research that individuals who volunteer to participate in sex research hold more liberal attitudes toward sexuality than people who choose not to participate in sex research (see Saunders, Fisher, Hewitt, and Clayton, 1985)."

For those who apparently self-reported as paedophiles, I still fail to see how we could differentiate potential child-molesters from paedophiles when we are just taking their word for this. What objective measure was used to determine this?
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby Endymion » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:11 pm

Reason 13: kids are hot.

But I agree that we shouldn't conflate arousal with attraction. That said, we shouldn't assume that a test subject who did not exhibit arousal to the images is not attracted to children - he may have a very low libido and not have experienced any significant penile turgidity. Also, some of the criticisms above assume that sexual imagery was used in the studies. I'm not familiar with some of them, but I believe (off the top of my head) that the imagery used in the 1995 study was not sexual.
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Re: Adult sexual arousal - relationship to paedophilia

Postby RecoveringSO » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:09 am

How was the scale of arousal determined? If it was determined by penile enlargement alone, I find that process questionable. The subject knows that he is being monitored and watched and has a beeping instrument attached to his penis. Increase in heart rate and release of endorphines/adrenalin in the system often causes penile enlargement. Waking up in the morning with the physiological response of your heart rate increasing causes penile enlargement ... So by what methodologies were used to determine arousal?
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