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5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby Melito » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:57 am

YouthRightsRadical wrote:
Melito wrote:Kids experiment, though they really shouldn't be doing that. There are good reasons why not even kids should do it to eachother though.

Can you please explain to the rest of us what those reasons are?

Gladly, the first reason is the risk of early puberty. What that can do, is stunt their growth (bones becoming dense too early). Also, if the girl gets pregnant, her life is at risk being so small. Yeah, you (hypothetical "you") may not have penetrative sex with her, but another kid her age also sexually involved might, or another adult. Yes, there's been child fathers and child mothers. And the effects of puberty on bone developement is pretty well documented.

Another reason would be their intellectual developement being stunted by sexual developement at such an early age. It's also well documented how puberty slows that down in some ways in the early teenage years. Now, imagine having that happen at a critical age of 5-7? That can be really bad in so many ways.

Those are just a couple of the physiological ways, I've left out the mental ones (not just the ones due to shame) that could come from that.
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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby YouthRightsRadical » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:42 am

Melito wrote:
YouthRightsRadical wrote:
Melito wrote:Kids experiment, though they really shouldn't be doing that. There are good reasons why not even kids should do it to eachother though.

Can you please explain to the rest of us what those reasons are?

Gladly,

I have to admit, I didn't expect you to take me up on that. The surprise is a pleasant one, I assure you. Most people who refer to "good reasons" always leave them precisely that vague, because they don't actually know what those "good reasons" might be. I look forward to finally learning those "good reasons". I expect this post will be life-changing.
Melito wrote:the first reason is the risk of early puberty. What that can do, is stunt their growth (bones becoming dense too early).

You know, I've looked into precocious puberty before. While I've seen it claimed that sexual activity can trigger it, none of the sources I found when I went looking just now mention that as a risk factor or cause:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20029745
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/cau ... s?page=2#2

Do you have such a source that I can look over? I am especially curious why partnered sexual activities would trigger this condition, and not solo sexual activities, since we know full well that masturbation happens at very young ages indeed.
Melito wrote:Also, if the girl gets pregnant, her life is at risk being so small. Yeah, you (hypothetical "you") may not have penetrative sex with her, but another kid her age also sexually involved might, or another adult.

Are you aware that contraception exists?
Melito wrote:Yes, there's been child fathers and child mothers.

Indeed there have. None of them have been prepubescent, mind you. That's the thing about puberty, if you can get pregnant, you aren't prepubescent by definition.
Melito wrote:And the effects of puberty on bone developement is pretty well documented.

Oh, I completely agree that we should eliminate puberty, but so few people in the medical establishment sanction that sort of thing. ;)
Melito wrote:Another reason would be their intellectual developement being stunted by sexual developement at such an early age. It's also well documented how puberty slows that down in some ways in the early teenage years. Now, imagine having that happen at a critical age of 5-7? That can be really bad in so many ways.

I'm afraid you've jumped one inference too far here. First, this rests on your assumption that sexual activity triggers precocious puberty (rather than the causal relationship being the other way around). Then you vaguely reference the documented dip in decisionmaking ability that accompanies normal puberty. Then you make the jump to assuming that this same dip is present in precocious puberty without any real evidence. Then you make the leap to permanent impairment if it happens in a young individual because you think that dip will somehow not actually go away like it does in normal individuals.

There might be something to your argument, but I'm going to need to see a lot more evidence before I'm convinced.
Melito wrote:Those are just a couple of the physiological ways, I've left out the mental ones (not just the ones due to shame) that could come from that.

That was a mistake, because those are the ones that actually ######6 matter. If you have that information, don't play this #######4 game of coyly suggesting it exists and just provide the information. Because I've heard this song and dance routine before, and no one has EVER actually provided the information you claim you just decided not to include. Put up or shut up.
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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby Melito » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:03 am

YouthRightsRadical wrote:I have to admit, I didn't expect you to take me up on that. The surprise is a pleasant one, I assure you. Most people who refer to "good reasons" always leave them precisely that vague, because they don't actually know what those "good reasons" might be. I look forward to finally learning those "good reasons". I expect this post will be life-changing.

If I didn't have good reasons to be against it, then I wouldn't argue that there were. Glad to have pleasantly suprised you. :wink:
You know, I've looked into precocious puberty before. While I've seen it claimed that sexual activity can trigger it, none of the sources I found when I went looking just now mention that as a risk factor or cause:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20029745
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/cau ... s?page=2#2

Do you have such a source that I can look over? I am especially curious why partnered sexual activities would trigger this condition, and not solo sexual activities, since we know full well that masturbation happens at very young ages indeed.

It's due to the exposure to testosterone of the male for girls and due to the exposure to the estrogen for boys. Certainly will find it for you.

Here's the article I read a while back:
http://www.yourhormones.info/endocrine_ ... berty.aspx

Sadly, it links another site instead of a med journal but didn't click the link, so I'll find more.

Are you aware that contraception exists?

Yes, but usually not in those sizes, nor with drugs tested on children. There's also the risk of STDs which you have to admit, are children able to be responsible in preventing them?

Indeed there have. None of them have been prepubescent, mind you. That's the thing about puberty, if you can get pregnant, you aren't prepubescent by definition.

None were prepubescent anymore, but they were definitely under the age of 13. In fact, two off the top of my head didn't even enter the double digits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_yo ... th_mothers

The boys that spring to mind were 10-13, so those are a little more debateable. Though yeah, pubescent at 5 isn't prepubescence, but c'mon, it might as well be!

Puberty being caused by exposure to sex hormones:
http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/ ... auses.aspx

Oh, I completely agree that we should eliminate puberty, but so few people in the medical establishment sanction that sort of thing. ;)

You'd have a mass epidemic of osteoperosis, that's not a good thing. Take it from someone with Kallmann syndrome, while I don't have osteo, I know someone that did. And it didn't feel good to go into my mid 20's without puberty. No energy, it absolutely sucked. Be careful what you wish for, there are those of us living that nightmare already.

I'm afraid you've jumped one inference too far here. First, this rests on your assumption that sexual activity triggers precocious puberty (rather than the causal relationship being the other way around). Then you vaguely reference the documented dip in decisionmaking ability that accompanies normal puberty. Then you make the jump to assuming that this same dip is present in precocious puberty without any real evidence. Then you make the leap to permanent impairment if it happens in a young individual because you think that dip will somehow not actually go away like it does in normal individuals.

The dip is caused by puberty, and the effect the hormones have on the normal mind. Do I really need to reinvent the wheel on this?
http://tweenparenting.about.com/od/phys ... -Girls.htm

In girls alone just as a for instance

There might be something to your argument, but I'm going to need to see a lot more evidence before I'm convinced.

I'm going to dig long and hard for scientific articles on the subject. Though I'm trying hard as hell not to stumble upon child prun spam sites in the process.

That was a mistake, because those are the ones that actually ######6 matter. If you have that information, don't play this #######4 game of coyly suggesting it exists and just provide the information. Because I've heard this song and dance routine before, and no one has EVER actually provided the information you claim you just decided not to include. Put up or shut up.

I'm looking it up and providing it for you. Sit back an relax. You might realize that not everyone is just against this because society is. Where I grew up, I was taught being gay was wrong, I still believe there's nothing wrong with it despite that. It's because I think for myself.
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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby YouthRightsRadical » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:50 am

Melito wrote:
YouthRightsRadical wrote:I have to admit, I didn't expect you to take me up on that. The surprise is a pleasant one, I assure you. Most people who refer to "good reasons" always leave them precisely that vague, because they don't actually know what those "good reasons" might be. I look forward to finally learning those "good reasons". I expect this post will be life-changing.

If I didn't have good reasons to be against it, then I wouldn't argue that there were. Glad to have pleasantly suprised you. :wink:

And I do look forward to discussing them. It's something I've wanted to do for years, but was never able to find someone able to hold up the other end.
Melito wrote:
You know, I've looked into precocious puberty before. While I've seen it claimed that sexual activity can trigger it, none of the sources I found when I went looking just now mention that as a risk factor or cause:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precocious_puberty
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20029745
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/cau ... s?page=2#2

Do you have such a source that I can look over? I am especially curious why partnered sexual activities would trigger this condition, and not solo sexual activities, since we know full well that masturbation happens at very young ages indeed.

It's due to the exposure to testosterone of the male for girls and due to the exposure to the estrogen for boys. Certainly will find it for you.

Here's the article I read a while back:
http://www.yourhormones.info/endocrine_ ... berty.aspx

Sadly, it links another site instead of a med journal but didn't click the link, so I'll find more.

I looked over your link, and I don't see anywhere that indicates that partnered sexual activity is a potential trigger.

Can you explain how the exposure to my testosterone would happen, in a mechanical sense, if I were to engage in sex with a little girl? Do you believe it is transmitted through sweat, contact with sexual fluids, or that there is some form of blood to blood contact which transmits my hormones to my partner and vice versa?
Melito wrote:
Are you aware that contraception exists?

Yes, but usually not in those sizes, nor with drugs tested on children. There's also the risk of STDs which you have to admit, are children able to be responsible in preventing them?

Indeed there have. None of them have been prepubescent, mind you. That's the thing about puberty, if you can get pregnant, you aren't prepubescent by definition.

None were prepubescent anymore, but they were definitely under the age of 13. In fact, two off the top of my head didn't even enter the double digits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_yo ... th_mothers

The boys that spring to mind were 10-13, so those are a little more debateable. Though yeah, pubescent at 5 isn't prepubescence, but c'mon, it might as well be!

I realize this is a minor, nit picky point, but no. You don't go through puberty and still remain prepubescent.
Melito wrote:Puberty being caused by exposure to sex hormones:
http://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/ ... auses.aspx

That talks about the sex hormones the body produces on its own. I don't see anything there about environmental exposure. Certainly not environmental exposure specifically from partnered sex.
Melito wrote:
Oh, I completely agree that we should eliminate puberty, but so few people in the medical establishment sanction that sort of thing. ;)

You'd have a mass epidemic of osteoperosis, that's not a good thing. Take it from someone with Kallmann syndrome, while I don't have osteo, I know someone that did. And it didn't feel good to go into my mid 20's without puberty. No energy, it absolutely sucked. Be careful what you wish for, there are those of us living that nightmare already.

I see my attempts to lighten the mood with a small joke have failed once again. I need to remember that emoticons don't communicate tone nearly as well as I keep expecting them to.
Melito wrote:
I'm afraid you've jumped one inference too far here. First, this rests on your assumption that sexual activity triggers precocious puberty (rather than the causal relationship being the other way around). Then you vaguely reference the documented dip in decisionmaking ability that accompanies normal puberty. Then you make the jump to assuming that this same dip is present in precocious puberty without any real evidence. Then you make the leap to permanent impairment if it happens in a young individual because you think that dip will somehow not actually go away like it does in normal individuals.

The dip is caused by puberty, and the effect the hormones have on the normal mind. Do I really need to reinvent the wheel on this?
http://tweenparenting.about.com/od/phys ... -Girls.htm

In girls alone just as a for instance

Your link seems to actually support the various social hypotheses better than it supports the idea that cognative development becomes meaningfully, permanently impaired. Especially where it discusses the differences in how males and females react to the condition.
Melito wrote:
There might be something to your argument, but I'm going to need to see a lot more evidence before I'm convinced.

I'm going to dig long and hard for scientific articles on the subject. Though I'm trying hard as hell not to stumble upon child prun spam sites in the process.

There aren't child porn spam sites. If such sites existed, they'd be found by the feds in no time flat. You don't need to be worried about them.
Melito wrote:
That was a mistake, because those are the ones that actually ######6 matter. If you have that information, don't play this #######4 game of coyly suggesting it exists and just provide the information. Because I've heard this song and dance routine before, and no one has EVER actually provided the information you claim you just decided not to include. Put up or shut up.

I'm looking it up and providing it for you. Sit back an relax. You might realize that not everyone is just against this because society is. Where I grew up, I was taught being gay was wrong, I still believe there's nothing wrong with it despite that. It's because I think for myself.

I trust you understand I've been disappointed by offers to present such evidence in the past. The reaction you're seeing from me is called being jaded. But still, I live to be proven wrong, so take however much time you need, but please present this information that you have, so I can stop being wrong.
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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby Melito » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:48 am

YouthRightsRadical wrote: And I do look forward to discussing them. It's something I've wanted to do for years, but was never able to find someone able to hold up the other end.

I hear you, there's alot of charged things that you're commanded to agree with, but the opposing side will never back up their arguements. Unfortunately, I've been busy and finding articles online that aren't just rehashings of the same stuff can be a little bit difficult on some subjects. So having a little bit of trouble finding some of the stuff I promised.

I looked over your link, and I don't see anywhere that indicates that partnered sexual activity is a potential trigger.

They don't, unfortunately the wording is always vague and always refers to "sexual abuse", not really specifying whether rape, showing of genitals, nor what its talking about. Though finding something on partnered sexual activity at such a young age might prove impossible, as its not a subject scientists are willing to touch that specifically.

I'm still going to look for better data.

People are overemotional about everything, and when it comes stuff like this, especially so.

Can you explain how the exposure to my testosterone would happen, in a mechanical sense, if I were to engage in sex with a little girl? Do you believe it is transmitted through sweat, contact with sexual fluids, or that there is some form of blood to blood contact which transmits my hormones to my partner and vice versa?

I've got no clue. I know, not a helpful answer, but it is an honest one.

Are you aware that contraception exists?

Yes, but usually not in those sizes, nor with drugs tested on children. There's also the risk of STDs which you have to admit, are children able to be responsible in preventing them?

"None were prepubescent anymore, but they were definitely under the age of 13. In fact, two off the top of my head didn't even enter the double digits:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_yo ... th_mothers

The boys that spring to mind were 10-13, so those are a little more debateable. Though yeah, pubescent at 5 isn't prepubescence, but c'mon, it might as well be!"


I realize this is a minor, nit picky point, but no. You don't go through puberty and still remain prepubescent.

Not nitpicky, I agree that they weren't prepubescent anymore. My point was that they are still kids, they're under 13, and mentally other than that puberty, still children. They're so young, the age kids usually are before puberty.
That talks about the sex hormones the body produces on its own. I don't see anything there about environmental exposure. Certainly not environmental exposure specifically from partnered sex.

I'm trying to find data that isn't just rehashing of the same claims. Was told of a study by a therapist a long long time back, but didn't really look into it. This is actually kind of bothering me that I can't find it.

Your link seems to actually support the various social hypotheses better than it supports the idea that cognative development becomes meaningfully, permanently impaired. Especially where it discusses the differences in how males and females react to the condition.

I can see that.

I trust you understand I've been disappointed by offers to present such evidence in the past. The reaction you're seeing from me is called being jaded. But still, I live to be proven wrong, so take however much time you need, but please present this information that you have, so I can stop being wrong.

I get that you're jaded. I'll admit that I haven't really researched this alot nor deeply. It's a subject that's incredibly awkward to even approach to question it, you understand this right?
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Re: 5 yr old rapist *trigger warning*

Postby YouthRightsRadical » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:48 am

I do understand it's a subject that's awkward to approach and question. That's one reason why I think seeing the evidence is as important as it is. I know from the Rind controversy that studies that come up with the "wrong" conclusions get the researchers sanctioned. It makes me want to look extra hard at the research.

That's how I found out that the "88% of child molesters are pedophiles" statistic that gets thrown around is made up #######4 from a single dishonest researcher trying to hawk a worthless test for determining whether someone is a pedophile or not. If you look at the primary source of that study, as an example, you'll find that the researchers, Gene G. Abel and Nora Harlow used a definition of pedophile so far outside the accepted academic norm, I'm willing to call it fraud.

Here's a link to that study:
http://www.childmolestationprevention.o ... /study.pdf

*mod edit*
Last edited by Remember Ronni on Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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