My experience of seeking counselling for paedophilia

ineedhope wrote:I'm studying in Denmark, so close.

What is it like In Denmark for minor attracted people? Is there a witch hunt out for paedophiles? Have they been imposed with thought-crime like in the UK and US?
Denmark could soon be one of the first countries to ban non-therapeutic circumcisions of children, which makes me regard them as a passionate country when it comes to human rights.

-- Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:41 pm --

ctithe,

Is there a part of you that worries you could loose access to your children based on your sexuality?
I think you are brave seeking counseling.

Enickma wrote:Is there a part of you that worries you could loose access to your children based on your sexuality?
I think you are brave seeking counseling.

I am concerned about this, yes. On the other hand, if the authorities in my country were to say that my age range of attraction makes me an unsuitable father, I would leave the country for a more rational one, and I know my girlfriend would follow me with the kids. As a father, it's my number one duty in life to protect my kids, and that includes protecting them from the prospect of being deprived of their loving father for no other reason than his sexuality.

All heterosexual fathers of girls will at some point witness their little girl(s) enter their age range of attraction, in most cases shortly after menarche. That in itself doesn't make them good or bad fathers. I have zero attraction to my daughter. Might be the Westermarck effect, might be the fact that my 'type' is very different, or both. I look at her and see my mother and my grandmothers. There's absolutely nothing there.

"Grooming" is an anti code word for anything that is not pedophiles making themselves suffer, not for the incredibly time-consuming, boring, expensive and often dangerous process of trying to get something out of a woman. So feel free to attach the term for every mundane thing in your daily life.

OK, so I've completed my counselling and all was extremely positive. I spoke with the counsellor in the 'grooming' issue (mentioned earlier in the thread), and she conceded that what I had discussed wasn't even close, especially given how well I know the girl in question. Obviously I cannot speculate what she thought personally, but at least professionally she treated me as an individual and with respect. She didn't report me to the police or social services, and said that all she will put on my record is 'relationship issues'.

Based on that experience, I would suggest that any non-offending paedophiles who would like counselling but are afraid to try it might consider going for it.

I'm glad to hear things ended on a positive note for you.

The profession as a whole will likely never earn my trust, but that doesn't make me incapable of appreciating positive news.

Thanks for writing about this, ctithe! I feel like yours might be the most thoughtful and best-elaborated perspective I've read, on pedophilia socially and personally, and I felt really inspired and encouraged to seek counceling after reading your posts. I'm really glad you've got support from your family and friends and know and manage yourself with confidence. Thank you again, and I wish you all the best!

I think one of the most scariest parts of reading this is that your counsellor missed some of the key points here as well ..
Every one is so accommodating to your needs & wants ..

What about the children you currently have access to ? You have admitted quite clearly here you find them attractive ...
So do you deliberately hang about them? Do you go out of your way to see them ? Do you deliberately spend time with them / do you feel sexual when around them ..?
Do you stay around when you do feel like this ? Then these are areas of great concern ..

As You have several deliberately placed children in your sites to know ..Are they safe ?
You mighten have so called attraction to your own ..
But how safe honestly are the other children you see?
Would you stop seeing them if you were wanting / or lost control ?
What steps have you put in place to PROTECT the children around you who YOU are attracted to ?

So curious.. what safety guards do you & your partner have in place? To protect your own child & others who you have contact with?
You have admitted quite clearly you are attracted to these very young Vunerable gals
Was this discussed in your sessions ?
Again one of the most disturbing things I read is that it is ALL about your rights ..how you should be so accpeted & all
What about the vulnerable children that are around you ..? What do you do to protect the children around you? To keep them safe ? especially the ones you enjoy seeing ?
Eg- do you allow yourself to be alone with these gals - now this would be inappropriate to do ..as you have stated you are attracted to them
Again just as you wish to protect your children so do other parents by knowing with very good cause who is attracted to their children in an inappropriate way..
Just as you remove dangerous things out of a child's way of harm , ( even you would do this for your own children ) so then you should see how & why other parents would not wanting their child be around an adult who is interested in hurting them in any way ..

And you as a parent should easily see this ..
As you have said you would do anything to protect your own children rightly so , as would other parents from potential harm coming to them from someone who does sexually want them they don't want their child's life destroyed by sexual abuse of any kind ..

Its well known someone trying to give up sex / alcohol / or drugs has to REMOVE themselves from all temptation in order to get the addiction under control ..
So why do you have very young gals around you who you have also stated turn you on?
Why do you have temptation around you ?
You stated you know them very well ...hmmmmm

Again this would send alarm bells to any good counsellor ..As this is someone who puts their OWN needs above a child's
And children DO need protecting from adults who might hurt them as NO they are not in a position to stop a fully grown adult doing what they want to them ! And this is fact !!) again this is why the counsellor was thinking about grooming ..And again you turned it around to be about your rights to do what you want when you want .. ..

Most adults are WAY stronger/ way more manipulating / & way more devious than a child hense why children are at GREAT danger from adults who want them as they are very easy to manipulate / they are frightened / & the adult is way much bigger to be intimidating ! ..
So who do you think holds the power here ? When ped adults impose themselves into their lives & make them be near them?
The child has NO idea what danger they are in when around women & men who find them attractive ..
Hense why the laws are NEeded to protect children who have NO way of protecting them from an adult who is bigger/ stronger / & will & does use their power to make the child do what they want


So curious what would you do ..If a ped touched one of your own children ?
How would that make you feel? Would you be horrified ?
Would you see the pain that they would suffer at the hands of someone bigger & so bloody scary standing over them asking them to do horrible sexual acts ..

As an adult we can also choose what acts we wish to do or not also with another adult eg- we can say NO to oral or anal ..
Where a child has NO choice at all !! they are made to do what the abuser says !
So how would you feel if your gal or boy was subjected to such humiliation ? would it hurt you as their parent? would it anger you?

sleeper^ wrote:I think one of the most scariest parts of reading this is that your counsellor missed some of the key points here as well ..
Every one is so accommodating to your needs & wants ..

What about the children you currently have access to ? You have admitted quite clearly here you find them attractive ...
So do you deliberately hang about them? Do you go out of your way to see them ? Do you deliberately spend time with them / do you feel sexual when around them ..?
Do you stay around when you do feel like this ? Then these are areas of great concern ..

How so? I could answer "yes" to every one of those questions, and not be any meaningful risk to them, and I could answer "no" to every one of those questions, and assholes would still think I'm dangerous and need to be locked up.

sleeper^ wrote:As You have several deliberately placed children in your sites to know ..Are they safe ?
You mighten have so called attraction to your own ..
But how safe honestly are the other children you see?
Would you stop seeing them if you were wanting / or lost control ?
What steps have you put in place to PROTECT the children around you who YOU are attracted to ?

So curious.. what safety guards do you & your partner have in place? To protect your own child & others who you have contact with?
You have admitted quite clearly you are attracted to these very young Vunerable gals
Was this discussed in your sessions ?

You should be made aware, the overwhelming majority of child molesters aren't pedophiles. They're situational offenders. It isn't the people who are attracted to children that rape and molest them.

sleeper^ wrote:Again one of the most disturbing things I read is that it is ALL about your rights ..how you should be so accpeted & all

Probably because that's the problem he was dealing with. I'd say it would be far more disturbing if this aspect were neglected.

sleeper^ wrote:What about the vulnerable children that are around you ..? What do you do to protect the children around you? To keep them safe ? especially the ones you enjoy seeing ?
Eg- do you allow yourself to be alone with these gals - now this would be inappropriate to do ..as you have stated you are attracted to them
Again just as you wish to protect your children so do other parents by knowing with very good cause who is attracted to their children in an inappropriate way..
Just as you remove dangerous things out of a child's way of harm , ( even you would do this for your own children ) so then you should see how & why other parents would not wanting their child be around an adult who is interested in hurting them in any way ..

And you as a parent should easily see this ..
As you have said you would do anything to protect your own children rightly so , as would other parents from potential harm coming to them from someone who does sexually want them they don't want their child's life destroyed by sexual abuse of any kind ..

The most likely person to molest a child is his/her own parent. Stranger danger is propaganda.

sleeper^ wrote:Its well known someone trying to give up sex / alcohol / or drugs has to REMOVE themselves from all temptation in order to get the addiction under control ..
So why do you have very young gals around you who you have also stated turn you on?
Why do you have temptation around you ?
You stated you know them very well ...hmmmmm

Yeah, that's why we allow sex addicts to discriminate against members of their preferred gender by kicking them out of their places of business and demanding they cover themselves in burquas. Oh wait, we don't do that, do we?

sleeper^ wrote:Again this would send alarm bells to any good counsellor ..As this is someone who puts their OWN needs above a child's
And children DO need protecting from adults who might hurt them as NO they are not in a position to stop a fully grown adult doing what they want to them ! And this is fact !!) again this is why the counsellor was thinking about grooming ..And again you turned it around to be about your rights to do what you want when you want .. ..

As FSaved said, "grooming" is a code word. It doesn't have any objective meaning beyond being a bludgeon to wield against people who are different from you.

sleeper^ wrote:Most adults are WAY stronger/ way more manipulating / & way more devious than a child hense why children are at GREAT danger from adults who want them as they are very easy to manipulate / they are frightened / & the adult is way much bigger to be intimidating ! ..
So who do you think holds the power here ? When ped adults impose themselves into their lives & make them be near them?
The child has NO idea what danger they are in when around women & men who find them attractive ..
Hense why the laws are NEeded to protect children who have NO way of protecting them from an adult who is bigger/ stronger / & will & does use their power to make the child do what they want

If you're in a sexual relationship where physical strength, emotional manipulation, and deviousness are a factor, the age of the participants is pretty much irrelavant, because it's already a rape.

Why do people think this sort of thing is okay when the target is an adult?

sleeper^ wrote:
So curious what would you do ..If a ped touched one of your own children ?
How would that make you feel? Would you be horrified ?
Would you see the pain that they would suffer at the hands of someone bigger & so bloody scary standing over them asking them to do horrible sexual acts ..

Sex acts are supposed to be mutually enjoyable. If your sex life regularly involves intimidating people into doing things you think of as horrible, you're doing it wrong.

sleeper^ wrote:As an adult we can also choose what acts we wish to do or not also with another adult eg- we can say NO to oral or anal ..
Where a child has NO choice at all !! they are made to do what the abuser says !

Your average three year old is more than capable of saying "no" to any activity you please, as annoyed parents the world over can attest. And if you aren't respecting your partner's "no" you're a rapist no matter what age your partner is.

sleeper^ wrote:So how would you feel if your gal or boy was subjected to such humiliation ? would it hurt you as their parent? would it anger you?

Let me put the question to you. Would it anger you because you actually feel empathy for the child, or would it anger you just because as a parent, you think of the child as your personal property?

Thank you for taking the time to express your concerns, sleeper^.

sleeper^ wrote:What about the children you currently have access to ? You have admitted quite clearly here you find them attractive ... So do you deliberately hang about them? Do you go out of your way to see them ? Do you deliberately spend time with them / do you feel sexual when around them ..?

I don't deliberately hang around with them. When I do get to spend time with them it's usually unplanned (e.g. bumping into them in a playground whilst there with my own family), and planned meets are with my daughter's closest friends, none of whom I find particularly attractive. In all cases, the children's parents are present, as is my own partner, who is aware of my sexuality.

sleeper^ wrote:Do you stay around when you do feel like this ? Then these are areas of great concern ..

As I said, I don't find my daughter's friends particularly attractive. When I pick her up from school I see attractive girls, but I don't get turned on simply by looking at attractive girls.

sleeper^ wrote:As You have several deliberately placed children in your sites to know ..Are they safe ?
You mighten have so called attraction to your own ..
But how safe honestly are the other children you see?

I don't know what you mean by 'deliberately placed'. Yes, they are safe. I have been attracted to little girls since I was a little boy, and in 27 years of being sexually aware I have never done anything inappropriate, and never done anything sexual with anyone under the age of consent. Three prepubescent girls have shown a sexual interest in me over those 27 years, and on all occasions I turned them down on the grounds of their age.

sleeper^ wrote:Would you stop seeing them if you were wanting / or lost control ?

I have no problems with impulse control.

sleeper^ wrote:What steps have you put in place to PROTECT the children around you who YOU are attracted to ?

None, as I have no problems with impulse control. Because of my track record (see above), I'm confident that children don't need 'protected' from me, and that I am not a threat to them. My partner and friends knowing could be viewed as a safeguard, but telling them was not intended as such.

sleeper^ wrote:So curious.. what safety guards do you & your partner have in place? To protect your own child & others who you have contact with?

I have no attraction to my daughter whatsoever. And my son is off the radar, so to speak (i.e. I don't have the capacity to find boys attractive). I don't see how I could find my daughter attractive; yes, I'm heterosexual, but I don't find my mother attractive, and if I had a sister I'm pretty sure I wouldn't find her attractive.

sleeper^ wrote:You have admitted quite clearly you are attracted to these very young Vunerable gals

I'm not attracted to vulnerable girls. I'm attracted to super-confident, savvy girls.

sleeper^ wrote:Was this discussed in your sessions ?

Fully and candidly, yes.

sleeper^ wrote:Again one of the most disturbing things I read is that it is ALL about your rights ..how you should be so accpeted & all

I don't recall invoking a framework of rights. But I do have a need to be accepted just like anybody else. Or, at least, not rejected on the basis of assumptions drawn from stereotypes, which themselves are not based on any genuine understanding.

sleeper^ wrote:What about the vulnerable children that are around you ..? What do you do to protect the children around you? To keep them safe ? especially the ones you enjoy seeing ?

I believe I've covered that above.

sleeper^ wrote:Eg- do you allow yourself to be alone with these gals - now this would be inappropriate to do ..as you have stated you are attracted to them

Yes, I occasionally get time alone with girls to whom I am attracted. I've never done anything inappropriate in such circumstances. All the girls to whom I am attracted are of an age where they would know what constitutes appropriate/inappropriate touching.

sleeper^ wrote:Again just as you wish to protect your children so do other parents by knowing with very good cause who is attracted to their children in an inappropriate way..
Just as you remove dangerous things out of a child's way of harm , ( even you would do this for your own children ) so then you should see how & why other parents would not wanting their child be around an adult who is interested in hurting them in any way ..

I'm not interested in hurting children in any way.

sleeper^ wrote:And you as a parent should easily see this ..

I do indeed.

sleeper^ wrote:As you have said you would do anything to protect your own children rightly so , as would other parents from potential harm coming to them from someone who does sexually want them they don't want their child's life destroyed by sexual abuse of any kind ..

This is easily dealt with; you simply don't let adults have sex with your kids. I don't pose a threat to people simply because I am attracted to them. There are several guys who pick their kids up from my daughter's school who are clearly (to me) attracted to girls, and at least two within my daughter's wider sphere of classmates and acquaitances. I don't assume that these guys are threats to my daughter, and purely as a precautionary measure I point these guys out to my partner and together we ensure those guys are not allowed unsupervised access. It is possible to do this whilst giving these guys the benefit of the doubt and not sending out hysterical messages to my daughter and her peers (i.e. making them feel that significant numbers of adults are a potential threat).

sleeper^ wrote:Its well known someone trying to give up sex / alcohol / or drugs has to REMOVE themselves from all temptation in order to get the addiction under control ..
So why do you have very young gals around you who you have also stated turn you on? Why do you have temptation around you ?

An argument by analogy is only as strong as the analogy being used. The analogy here is weak, as being attracted to people is not like an addiction.

sleeper^ wrote:You stated you know them very well ...hmmmmm

Again this would send alarm bells to any good counsellor ..As this is someone who puts their OWN needs above a child's

I don't see how person A knowing person B well can be taken as an indication that person A is putting his/her own needs above that of person B.

sleeper^ wrote:And children DO need protecting from adults who might hurt them as NO they are not in a position to stop a fully grown adult doing what they want to them ! And this is fact !!)

I'm not interested in hurting children, and I have never done so.

sleeper^ wrote:again this is why the counsellor was thinking about grooming ..

The counsellor raised the issue of grooming because she was testing my empathy (she says). She was confident from my response, and from our discussions in general, that I have a sufficient degree of empathy to fully understand children's needs.

sleeper^ wrote:And again you turned it around to be about your rights to do what you want when you want .. ..

This is an unfounded statement.

sleeper^ wrote:Most adults are WAY stronger/ way more manipulating / & way more devious than a child hense why children are at GREAT danger from adults who want them as they are very easy to manipulate / they are frightened / & the adult is way much bigger to be intimidating ! ..
So who do you think holds the power here ? When ped adults impose themselves into their lives & make them be near them?

I haven't imposed myself upon a child or made a child be near me. I prefer girls who are super-confident; vulnerability or shyness are rather unattractive to me. I think you do a disservice to children by tarring them all with the same brush. Some are very savvy.

sleeper^ wrote:The child has NO idea what danger they are in when around women & men who find them attractive ..

I think children sense danger without recourse to preconceived ideas. They often find someone creepy who adults tell them is OK, or sense that someone's intentions are benign when adults are operating on the basis of hysteria. Such instincts shouldn't be taken as foolproof, and I don't deny that children (particularly younger children) can be very vulnerable.

sleeper^ wrote:Hense why the laws are NEeded to protect children who have NO way of protecting them from an adult who is bigger/ stronger / & will & does use their power to make the child do what they want

I would add that an additional vulnerability is that children who have been abused are unlikely to be able to negotiate the relevant legal channels or seek the support they may require unaided by adults. An age of consent protects them in this regard too, by stipulating that whatever happened was illicit, thereby ensuring that the onus probandi centres only on whether sexual activity occurred, not on whether or not it was benign and consensual. I agree with having an age of consent.

sleeper^ wrote:So curious what would you do ..If a ped touched one of your own children ?
How would that make you feel? Would you be horrified ?

I would be enraged. A man once took a photograph of my daughter with his phone, and I called the police, who dealt with him appropriately.

I also believe it is important not to act hysterically, as this can compound, aggravate or create trauma.

Your question, however, is hypothetical and does not relate to my situation, as I have never touched a child inappropriately.

sleeper^ wrote:Would you see the pain that they would suffer at the hands of someone bigger & so bloody scary standing over them asking them to do horrible sexual acts ..

As an adult we can also choose what acts we wish to do or not also with another adult eg- we can say NO to oral or anal ..
Where a child has NO choice at all !! they are made to do what the abuser says !

You're conflating paedophilia (attraction to children) with child molesting (sexual activity with children). They aren't the same thing.

sleeper^ wrote:So how would you feel if your gal or boy was subjected to such humiliation ? would it hurt you as their parent? would it anger you?

I believe I've covered this above.

I think it would be helpful for you to be familiar with the science on this matter. I recommend you check out the work of such figures as Hirschman et al. (1995) and Dr Sarah Goode. Men who are attracted to prepubescent children are not rare anomalies, the bogeymen figures of lurid headlines and the hysterical mythopoeic processes of the masses; we are, in fact, exceedingly common. Goode suggests that 20% would be a conservative estimate. Just some of us are a bit more honest with ourselves and others.