having a relationship with a 12 year old girl - dangerous?

Hi all, it's been a long time since I last posted something on the forum.
Well, I won't write too much so I'll keep the text short, not feeling like writing a lot today.
I met a girl on FB, saw her pictures, know where she lives and all. We first started to talk on FB then I asked for her number and we text message each other everyday. She's 12 years old and I am almost 21 years old. I just like her physically since I can't really talk about liking her personality because we barely know each other, plus, I'm in love with another girl of the same age. I enjoy talking to her, because I'm strongly attracted by her physically - this is why I contacted her first, this is why I asked for her number. I even told her a few times that she's pretty. She knows about my age, I didn't lie to her and doesn't look intimidated by it, although I never told her I like her in an explicit way.
And that's it, I like her but she doesn't know. And she doesn't like me either - well, as a friend I think she does (she actually trusts me a lot) but maybe she just considers me an older brother.
Is it normal that I don't want to tell her? Is it normal that I get very paranoid about someone adult that is close to her finding out?
It's not a "romantic relationship", not a friendship either as we barely know each other and never met in person. Another question arises: is it normal that, despite liking her, I wouldn't want to meet her?
When we talk, the age difference is clearly evident, so I tend to find it difficult to find something to talk about, but mostly we talk about music, what we do during the day and things like that, innocent things that in no way would make someone (as her parents or adult relatives or any other person on earth) think that I am interested in her...and what does society call a 21 year-old grown person, who's already mature and acting like a man not like a little boy anymore, lusting after a 12 year-old girl? Yes, a pedophile. Do you think my intentions can be seen as good? After all, I contacted her on purpose, knowing her age, to tell her she's pretty - in an absolutely innocent and even sweet way but still, I contacted a 12 year-old little girl because I'm totally and extremely attracted to her!

Considering that we don't meet, wouldn't, and probably never will, do you consider this phone relationship with her "dangerous"?
What are your ides about the whole thing?

Edit: Forgot to say, in no way I would touch her or say something explicit or inappropriate to her! I don't even say curse words (while she sometimes does) when talking to her. I'm totally clean.

ElKahn wrote:Do you think my intentions can be seen as good? After all, I contacted her on purpose, knowing her age, to tell her she's pretty - in an absolutely innocent and even sweet way but still, I contacted a 12 year-old little girl because I'm totally and extremely attracted to her!

Firstly, based on what you've said I would bet my life that if she offered you any sort of sexual contact and you had the opportunity to meet her, you would do it.

Now, a 12 year old girl is at that age where there's some small chance she may offer a stranger sexual contact, but it would still be horrendously damaging to her. This isn't a problem most of the time as there are so few pedophiles, but in your case you'd probably take her up on it and do something that would hurt you. I do not believe it would even be a matter of willpower, as I don't believe you can comprehend what is wrong with it (this is nothing to do with your paraphilia - the way you talk does not suggest to me that you have the emotional intelligence to understand a 12 year old, as you're doing what everyone with low emotional intelligence does and projecting your own distinctly male, often sexual and undoubtedly adult thinking onto her, where it simply doesn't exist).

Let's assume you are capable of recognising that, even if it is offered, as the adult you are responsible to rebuke the sexual advances of a 12 year old girl - it's obvious what you should do.

Remove her from Facebook and cut all contact.

This is a little bit of practice of the type of self-denial that can let you live a normal life despite your attraction to children. If you can rebuke sexual contact with a child, even if it was offered and you're attracted to the child, that's case closed - you're simply not a threat to anyone.

But if you start "befriending" 12 year olds on Facebook because you're "strongly attracted to them physically", referring to your interactions as a "relationship", using phrases like "probably never" when referring to the likelihood of meeting and can't recognise that these are the actions of a pedophile and subsequently behave in the opposite fashion, then you are a threat to society, most specifically you're a threat to children who are in the earliest and most dangerous stage of developing sexuality.

I hope for both your sake and the sake of this girl that you're able to block her. Sexual urges weren't made to be resisted, quite the opposite, your self-denial has to be very proactive and aggressive if you're to live a normal life.

I say stay away, far far far far away because you are messing around in dangerous territory no matter how much you think you won't do anything or whatever. I mean its like giving a drug addict 100 lbs of drugs and putting it on his lap and saying don't touch it. Well you will do what you wanna do and nobody like me is going to change that. Good luck!

Keep in mind it is illegal to arouse passions in minors.
So long as you don't talk about sex you should be okay.
Technically, you can discuss sex so long as it is purely educational, but if you're a self-professed pedophile, it's best to avoid the subject altogether, even if she insists on it, steer clear.
Avoid being drawn into deep philosophical discussions, or sharing of strongly opinionated controversial banter, kids don't need to hear stuff like that coming from grown ups. Keep it light hearted and simple for fun. Your job is to make her smile, build her self-esteem, be there when she needs a friend, help her with homework, and most importantly, the best thing you can do is help confirm for her that not all guys are jerks. The greatest gift you have to offer is confirmation for her that adult males can be nice and fun. And the worst thing that could happen is just the opposite, if you end up scaring her away from creepy older guys online.
I have been mentoring young girls online for years, facebook, youtube, whatever.
And sometimes I connect with them on the phone too.
So long as you are confident in your ability to remain a positive healthy influence in her life, then I consider it good therapy.
I admire anyone capable of extracting joy through taking active participation in a child's life.

In dealing with children online you should always keep in the forefront of your mind that everything you say is being scrutinized by parents and cops. Even if your relationship is private.
If you are a pedo then it becomes especially vital that you never make any foolish mistakes in your interaction that brings her any sorrow to her life. If you are unable to improve her life somehow, then you have no business bothering with her.
For example, if you become close friends and then one day you accidentally unintentionally say something that offends her or hurts her feelings, so she tells her friends or teacher at school or parents that she's feeling depressed or sad because of something this older guy friend online said to her. This will be problematic for you. Aside from feeling terrible for being the cause of her sorrow, you can be blamed by others because you are the one in position of responsibility and accountability.
It is very rewarding to be a good influence in a girls life, and nothing is more awful than being guilty of bad influence.

Do I think your intentions can be seen as good?
What exactly are your intentions?

I'll tell you one thing that I always do, once phone contact is made, you should be fully prepared in readiness to answer to her parents to explain to them your intentions. And if you're truly serious about forming a real friendship with this child, you should begin making plans on trying to achieve that communication with her parents. I always do.
So long as you are honest, most parents will appreciate your willingness to serve as a good male role model for her. I've never once had a problem with any parents because I'm upfront and on the level.

I would suggest trying to reframe your internal dialogue when you think about her and in your discussion. Nobody wants to hear that you "lust" for her. Use a paraphrase, you "admire" her or you are quite "fond" of her, or you appreciate her beauty. Lust is not an appropriate term to apply. It might be okay here at this forum, we appreciate your honesty and candor, but nobody else in the entire world will understand what you mean by it unless they're pedos too.
Also, let me say, I will appreciate it if you keep us updated on your progress with her.
If you ever need advice or questions or concerns arise, I'd be glad to try and help you along.

ScienceAndCake wrote:Now, a 12 year old girl is at that age where there's some small chance she may offer a stranger sexual contact, but it would still be horrendously damaging to her.

Please stop regurgitating discredited cultural mythology. There is no evidence that sex, an inherently pleasurable activity, is "horrendously damaging" to children.

In 1998 The APA, i.e. the American Psychological Association, the largest and most authoritative psychology organization in the country, issued a report claiming “that the ‘negative potential’ of adult sex with children was ‘overstated’ and that ‘the vast majority of both men and women reported no negative sexual effects from childhood sexual abuse experiences.”

In 1999, a massive peer-reviewed meta-analysis of the effects of "child sexual abuse" was published in the most prestigious psychological journal in America. It reached the following conclusion:

"The self-reported effects data contradict the conclusions or implications presented in previous literature reviews that harmful effects stemming from CSA are pervasive and intense in the population of persons with this experience. Baker and Duncan (1985) found that, although some respondents reported permanent harm stemming from their CSA experiences (4% of males and 13% of females), the overwhelming majority did not (96% of males and 87% of females). Severe or intense harm would be expected to linger into adulthood, but this did not occur for most respondents in this national sample, according to their self-reports, contradicting the conclusion or implication of intense harm stemming from CSA in the typical case. Meta-analyses of CSA-adjustment relations from the five national studies that reported results of adjustment measures revealed a consistent pattern: SA respondents were less well adjusted than control respondents. Importantly, however, the size of this difference (i.e., effect size) was consistently small in the case of both males and females. The unbiased effect size estimate for males and females combined was ru = .08, which indicates that CSA, assuming that it was responsible for the adjustment difference between SA and control respondents, did not produce intense problems on average."

"Many lay persons and professionals believe that child sexual abuse (CSA) causes intense harm, regardless of gender, pervasively in the general population. The authors examined this belief by reviewing 59 studies based on college samples. Meta-analyses revealed that students with CSA were, on average, slightly less well adjusted than controls. However, this poorer adjustment could not be attributed to CSA because family environment (FE) was consistently confounded with CSA, FE explained considerably more adjustment variance than CSA, and CSA-adjustment relations generally became non-significant when studies controlled for FE. Self-reported reactions to and effects from CSA indicated that negative effects were neither pervasive nor typically intense, and that men reacted much less negatively than women. The college data were completely consistent with data from national samples. Basic beliefs about CSA in the general population were not supported."

Rind, Bruce & Tromovitch, Philip (1997). "A meta-analytic review of findings from national samples on psychological correlates of child sexual abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 34, 237-255.

Now that does not mean the OP should pursue a sexual relationship with this girl. Because of our culture's maladaptive and dysfunctional attitude towards sexuality, this will no doubt end in disaster. An anecdotal example of such a scenario:

(Love and attraction: an international conference, p. 501.)

"Perhaps you cannot imagine this but when I was 12 I was very much in love with a man of 50 and he with me. I don't know who made the first move but we stroked each other and experienced sexuality together. It relaxed me wonderfully. One day my parents found out and the police were called in. The examination was terrible; I denied it and denied it again. Then I gave in. My older friend was arrested. My parents, after my forced confession, made out a formal complaint. Nothing could be of help any more. I have never been able to forget this. It wasn't just.

OP, don't take things any further. I'm sure you don't want to ruin both of your lives for the sake of an orgasm.

Tabs wrote:Keep in mind it is illegal to arouse passions in minors.
So long as you don't talk about sex you should be okay.
Technically, you can discuss sex so long as it is purely educational, but if you're a self-professed pedophile, it's best to avoid the subject altogether, even if she insists on it, steer clear.
Avoid being drawn into deep philosophical discussions, or sharing of strongly opinionated controversial banter, kids don't need to hear stuff like that coming from grown ups. Keep it light hearted and simple for fun. Your job is to make her smile, build her self-esteem, be there when she needs a friend, help her with homework, and most importantly, the best thing you can do is help confirm for her that not all guys are jerks. The greatest gift you have to offer is confirmation for her that adult males can be nice and fun. And the worst thing that could happen is just the opposite, if you end up scaring her away from creepy older guys online.
I have been mentoring young girls online for years, facebook, youtube, whatever.
And sometimes I connect with them on the phone too.
So long as you are confident in your ability to remain a positive healthy influence in her life, then I consider it good therapy.
I admire anyone capable of extracting joy through taking active participation in a child's life.

In dealing with children online you should always keep in the forefront of your mind that everything you say is being scrutinized by parents and cops. Even if your relationship is private.
If you are a pedo then it becomes especially vital that you never make any foolish mistakes in your interaction that brings her any sorrow to her life. If you are unable to improve her life somehow, then you have no business bothering with her.
For example, if you become close friends and then one day you accidentally unintentionally say something that offends her or hurts her feelings, so she tells her friends or teacher at school or parents that she's feeling depressed or sad because of something this older guy friend online said to her. This will be problematic for you. Aside from feeling terrible for being the cause of her sorrow, you can be blamed by others because you are the one in position of responsibility and accountability.
It is very rewarding to be a good influence in a girls life, and nothing is more awful than being guilty of bad influence.

Do I think your intentions can be seen as good?
What exactly are your intentions?

I'll tell you one thing that I always do, once phone contact is made, you should be fully prepared in readiness to answer to her parents to explain to them your intentions. And if you're truly serious about forming a real friendship with this child, you should begin making plans on trying to achieve that communication with her parents. I always do.
So long as you are honest, most parents will appreciate your willingness to serve as a good male role model for her. I've never once had a problem with any parents because I'm upfront and on the level.

I would suggest trying to reframe your internal dialogue when you think about her and in your discussion. Nobody wants to hear that you "lust" for her. Use a paraphrase, you "admire" her or you are quite "fond" of her, or you appreciate her beauty. Lust is not an appropriate term to apply. It might be okay here at this forum, we appreciate your honesty and candor, but nobody else in the entire world will understand what you mean by it unless they're pedos too.
Also, let me say, I will appreciate it if you keep us updated on your progress with her.
If you ever need advice or questions or concerns arise, I'd be glad to try and help you along.

I have a bunch of questions about the above, if you can answer them:

You are claiming that you have had contact with a lot of young girls, and that parents are okay with their girls having contact with an old pedophile? Do they ever ask you if you are a pedophile? If so, what do you tell them? How old are these girls? Do you spend time with any little girls in real life? Take them on dates? Ever had a girl sleep over? Do girls ever make a sexual advance? And if so, I imagine you would claim that you were always easily able to turn her down?

I would love to see you give real answers to all that. But even if you can really handle that type of situation, I really doubt OP could at this point.

ElKahn wrote:When we talk, the age difference is clearly evident, so I tend to find it difficult to find something to talk about, but mostly we talk about music, what we do during the day and things like that, innocent things that in no way would make someone (as her parents or adult relatives or any other person on earth) think that I am interested in her...

People aren't quite that naive! If you're texting a 12 year old every day, even if it's about economics or model trains, it's blatantly obvious that you are interested in her.

ElKahn wrote:Do you think my intentions can be seen as good?

To me they seem selfish, and I think selfishness is rarely good. You contacted her because of how you felt. You were attracted to her; you thought she was pretty. These are you feelings - not hers. You are using her to please yourself.

If your only intention was to give her a compliment, you could have given the compliment and then ended the relationship there.

Some of you guys are thinking about things in a wrong way. I do not, and repeat, DO NOT have any intention of even meeting her, let alone having a sexual contact. TRUTH: I fantasize about her a lot, and I DO ADMIT I get incredibly aroused, but a fantasy doesn't mean anything.

And as Tabs said, yes that is my intention, being a mentor, that mysterious mentor on the phone - who, in reality, is a self-declared pedophile, but a good one - who cares about her and teaches her things. She trusts me, as I said something like "you can count on me, as I'm older and can give you better advice" and she thanked me. In no way am I going to say anything sexual and if she ever ask me something about sex, I'll simply refuse to answer, as it happened with my 15 year old friend. Especially because phones can be easily controlled by the police.

The most "intimate" thing we ever did was sending each other kisses and hearts on text messages...and I told her she's sweet and she said the same thing about me. Nothing more, nothing less.

OP, don't take things any further.

I explicitly said I won't.

I'm sure you don't want to ruin both of your lives for the sake of an orgasm.

Absolutely not, even though the mere fact that the word was mentioned aroused me, so I would even avoid to think about that in every way possible. And I'm trying hard.

No. Unless you're distributing bad stuff and/or cybering with her.