My brother is a sex offender....

Simgiran, I am reciting medical facts as published by the American Psych Association. The human brain does not finish developing until the age of 25. It does not matter what our lawmakers deem appropriate for sexual activity. This logic would suggest that a 14 year old is responsible enough to choose to make a human and raise them for 18 years. Teenage mothers have reported that they regretted having children at their young age. They did not "think it would happen to them". This happens when teenagers are sexually active. Further, the risk of sexually transmitted diseases are very high in teenage children and their resources for treating the condition are limited. Children do not comprehend the risk and consequences of their actions. If they could, they should also be mature enough to vote our lawmakers into and out of office.

That being said, I agree with you that this kind of labeling as a sex offender for a child of 19 is very damaging. As we know, his brain is also still developing. Seems to me, two children have been hurt due to this situation. I suppose he didn't mean to cause any harm. And yet, he could've hurt her tremendously.

And, my opinion is that adults need to interject more in the lives of adolescents to help them make decisions that wont negatively impact the remainder of their lives (and often times, their children's lives). Your argument is that it is going on and has been "approved of" for many years. I submit that our goal should be to make our children's lives better and more enriched as we develop understanding about human development. We used to do a lot of things that weren't necessarily good for us. We start with making a law, then social behavior usually follows.

15's legal in New Hampshire. The variability of AoC in the US proves how arbitrary it is. Globally lowest I've seen is 12, highest is 21. Used to think it was tied to longevity but it's not. It's just completely pulled outta someone's tuckus. With no rhyme or reason to it whatsoever. Wish we'd get rid of statutory rape altogether. Or make it more like Japan and other countries', rather than a legal definition, let parents decide if it was rape or not. If they're ok with a given relationship (and the minor involved claims to have consented) then there's no crime.

Sex offender registries are seemingly unconstitutional as no other criminal group is so penalized. Simple fact is we're an anti-sex country trying to go the route of the Taliban and make all recreational sex illegal. It's actually alarming how like pre-war Nazi Germany we are right now. Instead of being anti-Jews though we're anti-Muslim, but share the rhetoric of the Nazis when it comes to immigrants, have eugenics programs sterilizing mentall impaired and minorities just like the Nazis did, are at war with everybody with no sign of peace (heard an alarming stat that since WW2 we've only had 5 or so years of actual peace without US forces in some kind of active military hostility somewhere.) Suppose the case can be made in order to defeat an enemy you must become at least as bad/powerful as they are. And the US became so much more powerful than Nazi Germany getting a-bombs first.

Human beings are an inherently violent species. But as social primates, we're also very highly sexual. In order to perpetuate war and encourage our violent side suppressing the social-sexual side must be done or everyone'll be having sex instead of being violent. But look at how sex is denounced, but violence (especially for the state) is a matter of patriotism and 'fighting for our freedom.' Our freedom hasn't been under direct threat since the British were here. Only threat to American freedom is the American government.

-- 03 Jun 2013 17:02 --

BlooJay wrote:Simgiran, I am reciting medical facts as published by the American Psych Association. The human brain does not finish developing until the age of 25. It does not matter what our lawmakers deem appropriate for sexual activity. This logic would suggest that a 14 year old is responsible enough to choose to make a human and raise them for 18 years. Teenage mothers have reported that they regretted having children at their young age. They did not "think it would happen to them". This happens when teenagers are sexually active. Further, the risk of sexually transmitted diseases are very high in teenage children and their resources for treating the condition are limited. Children do not comprehend the risk and consequences of their actions. If they could, they should also be mature enough to vote our lawmakers into and out of office.

That being said, I agree with you that this kind of labeling as a sex offender for a child of 19 is very damaging. As we know, his brain is also still developing. Seems to me, two children have been hurt due to this situation. I suppose he didn't mean to cause any harm. And yet, he could've hurt her tremendously.

And, my opinion is that adults need to interject more in the lives of adolescents to help them make decisions that wont negatively impact the remainder of their lives (and often times, their children's lives). Your argument is that it is going on and has been "approved of" for many years. I submit that our goal should be to make our children's lives better and more enriched as we develop understanding about human development. We used to do a lot of things that weren't necessarily good for us. We start with making a law, then social behavior usually follows.

Brain development is an empty shirt sorta arguement. Pleanty of middle aged people make rash decisions all the time, but no one blames brain development. Doesn't take a great deal of brain power to consent to something pleasurable like sex. Sex is the most positive act we can do yet is denounced as something bad by people who want us embracing violence instead.

And Children develop sexual urges at 3 - 5 years of age.... Is your argument that all children should enjoy sexual relationships with whomever they like? I hope you're not suggesting that an eight year old is capable of consenting to sex?

If this is not your intention, then there needs to be some rational and reasonable limit set on this behavior by a mature adult. Not violence... but some kind of limit.

The reason for my post was to contribute my thoughts as to why this young man was in trouble with the law, and his family. The author is very upset and rightfully so. I offer some information as to why there is this limit set in our laws. It doesn't take a great deal of brain power to respond to a sexual advance, this is true. That's why those with a "full shirt" need to monitor and guide our vulnerable children so that these kinds of damaging charges are avoided on both sides. It may be hurtful for the young man, and it is potentially hurtful to the young girl too. Decisions should not be based on what feels good. Decisions should be based on what is healthy for all.

BlooJay wrote:At a glance, I understand your argument that he didn't hurt anybody, that they both engaged in this relationship, and she appears to be a young lady, and no longer a child. But, a 15 year old is not mature enough to anticipate the consequences of her actions, and a 19 year old is more mature. The human brain grows and develops until around age 25. The last part of development is the ability to effect judgement accurately. A 15 year old does not understand what a sexually transmitted disease is nor does she comprehend that she may have to live with it for the rest of her life. She appears to be mature enough maybe to a 19 year old, but she is not. She says that she understands it... but she cannot. Her brain is not developed enough....not grown enough...to comprehend the consequences of pregnancy or abortion. She needs protection from her parents to avoid those situations which is why the law was created. Unfortunately, boys in our society should get the same lectures on restraint and maturity as girls do, and, too often, they don't. There is still a double standard with the sexual expectation and tolerance of boys and girls. Every parent needs to school both genders to refrain from sex until their mature enough to make this kind of an adult decision. Consequences sometimes create heartache, as you are experiencing. Sexual contact can be wonderful, but only when it is between two consenting adults, which means that both understand the choice to begin with.

Historically, humans started having kids at 15 because they might not make it past their 20th birthday. Her brain is mostly developed, and developed enough. For crying out loud, she's more mature than he is. Though I still think that the two should have waited. This culture cherubizes teenagers....

I still think that even if it were legal, they should be avoiding getting her pregnant because they still have their futures (Well...she does now....) ahead of them.

I'm 23, my brain won't be done developing until I'm 25. Should I then, have my boyfriend arrested for child molestation? He's 30. His brain is done developing, unlike mine. Should we put the age of consent at 25?

BlooJay wrote:And Children develop sexual urges at 3 - 5 years of age.... Is your argument that all children should enjoy sexual relationships with whomever they like? I hope you're not suggesting that an eight year old is capable of consenting to sex?

Do they all? I thought that was only when they were molested. And no, they shouldn't. They're not even built for that yet at all. They won't be until puberty. If they've gone through puberty at 8-11, as rare as it might be for most, I still think its way too damn young to be considered. At least until their body is large and developed enough to support a baby if the girl gets pregnant. Though I still think they won't be ready until at the earliest 15/14 (14 being a rare exception).

If this is not your intention, then there needs to be some rational and reasonable limit set on this behavior by a mature adult. Not violence... but some kind of limit.

I wholeheartedly agree with you.

The reason for my post was to contribute my thoughts as to why this young man was in trouble with the law, and his family. The author is very upset and rightfully so. I offer some information as to why there is this limit set in our laws. It doesn't take a great deal of brain power to respond to a sexual advance, this is true.

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

That's why those with a "full shirt" need to monitor and guide our vulnerable children so that these kinds of damaging charges are avoided on both sides. It may be hurtful for the young man, and it is potentially hurtful to the young girl too. Decisions should not be based on what feels good. Decisions should be based on what is healthy for all.

This thread isn't about children, vulnerable nor not. It's not even about child molestation, nor even pedophilia, nor those who have had sex with children.

-- Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:43 am --

And about this whole "mature enough for adult relationships" thing, alot of adults aren't. My 30 year old boyfriend is less mature than me in that department. We're working with eachother on that. I'm 23, and I'm still getting passed the "how do you ask her out...." stage. Yeah, I'm that immature. So this has less to do with how we should put limits as you might think. It's a poor arguement, as everyone is ready at different times.

I think that the age of consent should be at the end of puberty, plus a couple of years for them to be at least close to their midteens. The age of consent most countries have.

I'm not saying that they need to wait until they are mature enough for adult relationships. I'm saying that a child does not have the mental capacity to predict consequences of their actions. The last part of the brain to develop is the ability to reason and evaluate their situations. ( And yes, all healthy children will discover their sexuality by 3 years of age. Abused children will "act out" on their feelings inappropriately) The brain development theory is the basis for the attempt of our lawmakers to set an age limit. The alternative would be for whomever is in power to arbitrarily pick an age (or none at all) to limit the sexual activity from "older" people. As a side note, it is not a crime for a 12 year old to engage in sex with another 12 year old. It is not the "act itself" which is being scrutinized, but rather, the relationship between a young person and a legally older person. There are no other means to control older people who can easily manipulate a child. So there is this law. Applied as haphazardly as most governments apply laws... which is a shame.

I hope you find some safe ground to approach your brother about this issue. It breaks my heart to hear of the many people that have been branded by this law. It's not right. A 19 year old is still so young. He probably also "didn't think it could happen to him". And I'm sure his girlfriend is still trying to wrap her head around this. He's lucky to have you to care enough to get "pissed". This is an issue that is close to my heart (which is why I have become so vociferous.) We are watching our young people be very hurt by these shortsighted laws, and I struggle to understand some reasoning to wrap my mind around it. Thanks for letting me vent...

BlooJay wrote:I'm not saying that they need to wait until they are mature enough for adult relationships. I'm saying that a child does not have the mental capacity to predict consequences of their actions. The last part of the brain to develop is the ability to reason and evaluate their situations. ( And yes, all healthy children will discover their sexuality by 3 years of age. Abused children will "act out" on their feelings inappropriately)

Actually, they can at 15, to a reasonable extent if nurtured. They just lack the experience in our culture. In prehistoric cultures, they'd be out on their own hunting, they'd better understand the consequences of their actions, or they'll all be dead in that situation. And they do.

I did at 15. Sure... before that, that's part of why (thought not really as big as it is for you) I'd say 14/15. Though mainly because before that, they're still very childlike. Though unlike you, I'm open to being wrong.

The brain development theory is the basis for the attempt of our lawmakers to set an age limit.

It's partly that, but an even larger part cultural norms. And theory is all good and great and all, but its best to leave the lab and get out and understand how the world works in practice, and to understand how to make things work outside of theory, and to understand how the world works outside of theory.

There was a point in time, where in theory, you'd be able to sail to the edge of the world. Though in practice, this was impossible, because we now know that the world isn't flat.

The alternative would be for whomever is in power to arbitrarily pick an age (or none at all) to limit the sexual activity from "older" people. As a side note, it is not a crime for a 12 year old to engage in sex with another 12 year old. It is not the "act itself" which is being scrutinized, but rather, the relationship between a young person and a legally older person. There are no other means to control older people who can easily manipulate a child. So there is this law. Applied as haphazardly as most governments apply laws... which is a shame.

But let's look at that for a second. If it should be based on their ability to understand the consequences of their actions, and they are unable, it should be illegal for them to do so. Why should it be any different? I'm not saying that a 12 year old and an adult should be able to, its obvious why they shouldn't.

I wasn't a virgin at 12. I wasn't educated about STD's and pregnancy, so I did as I pleased until I learned about them at 14. Guess what I did, I understood the consequences of my actions, and said, "you know what? I think I'll wait" and didn't have sex again until I was living on my own and didn't have to worry about telling my fundamentalist parents I was going to get tested, and I didn't have to hide the condoms. Right there, I just proved you wrong.

I'll also say, that a 12 year old, though not the gravity necessarily, would also understand the consequences of their actions. I think people underestimate the knowledge young people have, and its sad how people, proffessionals included, diminutize them.

I hope you find some safe ground to approach your brother about this issue. It breaks my heart to hear of the many people that have been branded by this law. It's not right. A 19 year old is still so young. He probably also "didn't think it could happen to him". And I'm sure his girlfriend is still trying to wrap her head around this. He's lucky to have you to care enough to get "pissed". This is an issue that is close to my heart (which is why I have become so vociferous.) We are watching our young people be very hurt by these shortsighted laws, and I struggle to understand some reasoning to wrap my mind around it. Thanks for letting me vent...

I completely agree with you, and thank you. I'll agree that neither of them understand the gravity of the situation, they think our laws are bound by compassion and reason but they aren't. They think that because people don't see him as a monster, that nothing will happen. I get that a teenager's reasoning skills aren't at par with that of the normal adult. That's a huge part of why, even if it were legal, I'd never date someone who was a teenager. Heck, I'd never date a 19 year old, and i"m attracted to people in their mid to late teens, much less have sex with them.

I definitely though think that they should inject reason into the laws. To where if a 19 year old does something like this, he gets probation at most, but definitely not have to register as a sex offender. As that registry is to protect people from dangerous people, not from people who make piss poor choices.

Your brother didn't fight because he's an idiot, but you probably already surmised that much.

Kabuhi wrote:Your brother didn't fight because he's an idiot, but you probably already surmised that much.

No, he didn't fight his desires because he's still a teenager himself. Fuelled by emotions that all teenagers have far in excess of us adults, as well as hormones. He's anything but stupid.

minotauros wrote:

Kabuhi wrote:Your brother didn't fight because he's an idiot, but you probably already surmised that much.

No, he didn't fight his desires because he's still a teenager himself. Fuelled by emotions that all teenagers have far in excess of us adults, as well as hormones. He's anything but stupid.

No, I'm sorry, but he's an idiot. He probably thought he'd get away with it and gave himself a false sense of security. It's not hard for a 19 year old to avoid having sex with a 15 year old or to recognize that he's jeopardizing his own welfare by doing so, he was just being stupid and paid a heavy price. Maybe the price he's going to pay for the rest of his life is TOO heavy, but there are no ifs, ands, or buts that he's definitely stupid. You even said yourself that you avoided sexual contact with a 14 year old precisely because that would be stupid, so isn't what your brother did stupid?

Kabuhi, everybody makes mistakes in life. I do. You do too.

Yes, this kid should have known better, but lets have some perspective. He's paying a very high price, and he's going to have a record following him around for a long time.

I'm not condoning what he's done for a second, but his crime just doesn't compare with some I've heard about where the offenders have never faced any sort of justice.