Husband at a loss with PPD wife

Well I have not figured out how to overcome the restriction on postings or to answer requests, but when I first brought up this site today someone asked about films on mental illness. That request results in this information which I hope the administrators will "patch in" to answer the person's request.

Several nites ago TCM (Turner Classic Movies ) ran "LIllith" out of the 1960's and very progressive for that era. It only seemed to run once, but perhaps you can search for it on the TV search function. The film was quite good, I thought. Jean Seberg played a beautiful troubled asylum resident. Her affliction seemed bi polar or perhaps schizotypal (what do I know???). Anyway, the author of the novel from which is was adapted must have known a lot about mental health issues. The movie caused me to dream about my wife. I do not normally dream. Seek this film out it is both entertaining and seemingly authentic.

I have a son that is 30 yrs old with PPD. He can't work. We totally support him financially. It is such a TRICKY and sensitive illness. He won't go to counseling. If we MAKE him then of course it's all part of the conspiracy. He doesn't trust anyone.
He keeps asking me to just tell him the truth.
Although these 'chats' have to do with a husband and a wife, they were still good for me to read. I REALLY want a support group but can't find one.
I can not imagine having a spouse with PPD. My heart goes out to you all.
It's hard watching you son lose reality also. It's heartbreaking. I shake my head sometimes because it's hard to believe that i can't reach him.
It's been quite a while but he had a girl friend that 'buffered' everything with him so it's hard to know when it actually started. They split up 4 years ago (after a 7 year relationship) and it was very very very hard on him. It was healthier for her tho.
There's so much more to say but i'll stop here.
Thank you for all your words and advice. Hearing the stories helps. Knowing that i'm not the only one struggling with 'What to do'???
Peace.....

imissmyson wrote:I have a son that is 30 yrs old with PPD. He can't work. We totally support him financially. It is such a TRICKY and sensitive illness. He won't go to counseling. If we MAKE him then of course it's all part of the conspiracy. He doesn't trust anyone.

'If we MAKE him then of course it's all part of the conspiracy.' Of course it is. You're using force. Have you used force as a tactic in the past? It's not helpful. You need to be tactful and reassuring, otherwise it's going to backfire on you. Take a walk in his shoes, how would it feel to think nothing is wrong with you, but everyone else says there is, and rather than receive constructive help, you're just forced to do this, and that, thrown into uncomfortable situations and just forced to 'deal' with it. Sure, for the normal person this might be okay, but everyone handles things differently. What might not be traumatic for one person, it could very well be for another person.

Trust me, most people are not going to come out of it very happy, regardless of age(But yes, 30 and still living you, I can see how you'd be fed up/at a loss), and since you're supposed to be a source of trust but have proven that you can't be trusted, well. You have contributed to the problem.

Now, I'm honestly not trying to be harsh, I'm just saying. Do you tell him exactly what you've said here? 'It's hard watching you lose reality'? If you're saying things like this, I promise you, you're not making anything better. You're making him lose touch even more.

I highly, highly, highly doubt your son has PPD over a relationship gone wrong. This is not how it works. I am certainly no professional, and while no one knows exactly what causes PPD, it is suspected that abuse during childhood, physical or emotional, could be a cause for it. I'm not blaming you, as I can understand how challenging it must be to deal with someone you love not being able to get out there and function like a regular adult, but take into consideration what I said above about force, and my question about your saying to him anything like you have said here.

My husband has undiagnosed PPD, but there is *no* doubt in my mind that he checks off every box on the symptom sheet. We've been together a total of 11 years now. He wasn't always this bad; but as time has gone on, it has gotten worse and worse. Every day, it seems, I am having sex with someone new. It doesn't matter if this person is white, black, latino, ugly, handsome, rich, or poor. Heck, a meth head moved in 2 doors down that he knew from high school and I've been accused of having sex with HIM!!!

My husband is a very attractive, successful man. For him to think so lowly of me hurts. Once, before I knew about PPD, he kept on insisting I was having sex with his BIL. He'd wake me up at 4 in the morning telling me "I know you did it". It got so bad and was so maddening and insulting that I drug him out of the house and locked the door just to have a little peace. Today he came home from the store and accused me of having sex with another man because he can't find his favorite baseball cap. Nevermind that his closet is a wreck and you can't find ANYTHING in there. In his mind, it's proof.

I don't suppose I have any helpful advice. I'm hoping my husband will go into therapy (he admits he thinks this is his problem). I have given up all my privacy, I have GPS on my car, a camera pointed on me during the day, and he has all my passwords. My motto has always been "those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing", but it doesn't seem to be sufficient in this case. You can't argue with these people. They are so convinced that they are right, NOTHING you say will change their mind.

Jacquelyn1970 wrote:My husband has undiagnosed PPD, but there is *no* doubt in my mind that he checks off every box on the symptom sheet. We've been together a total of 11 years now. He wasn't always this bad; but as time has gone on, it has gotten worse and worse. Every day, it seems, I am having sex with someone new. It doesn't matter if this person is white, black, latino, ugly, handsome, rich, or poor. Heck, a meth head moved in 2 doors down that he knew from high school and I've been accused of having sex with HIM!!!

My husband is a very attractive, successful man. For him to think so lowly of me hurts. Once, before I knew about PPD, he kept on insisting I was having sex with his BIL. He'd wake me up at 4 in the morning telling me "I know you did it". It got so bad and was so maddening and insulting that I drug him out of the house and locked the door just to have a little peace. Today he came home from the store and accused me of having sex with another man because he can't find his favorite baseball cap. Nevermind that his closet is a wreck and you can't find ANYTHING in there. In his mind, it's proof.

I don't suppose I have any helpful advice. I'm hoping my husband will go into therapy (he admits he thinks this is his problem). I have given up all my privacy, I have GPS on my car, a camera pointed on me during the day, and he has all my passwords. My motto has always been "those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing", but it doesn't seem to be sufficient in this case. You can't argue with these people. They are so convinced that they are right, NOTHING you say will change their mind.

I used to date someone who accused me of having Bipolar all of the time. It really does go to show how off some people can be, and it's nothing short of bizarre at times how a person is 100% convinced of something based off of what they rummaged through online. It makes me question the mental state of other people more than my own, honestly.

Anyway, people accusing each other of cheating is nothing new. People can become so severely clingy and wrapped up in another person that's it's nothing short of insane. I had an ex who was constantly up my ass. I was still a teenager at the time, but he'd get me on the phone just to have me on there, never say anything, unless of course I decided to do something else to solve growing boredom, which was always the wrong move because that pissed him off. I was also accused of cheating quite a bit.

He didn't have PPD because of these things. Someone who accuses another person of cheating all of the time, wanting to have tabs on them, obsessive, controlling, possessive, whatever it may be, that doesn't seal the deal. In my case(I'm not implying it is yours), turns out it wasn't a personality disorder compelling him to behave that way with me, but that he had been cheating on me. Crazy how that works, guilty conscious, projection, things like this.

You're not wrong with 'NOTHING you say will change their mind', but this really is most people if they feel that they are right. I can lay out facts about this or that all day long with some people, and they will still refuse to cave. So stubborn, some people. I mean, if I sit here and try to change your mind over your husband having PPD, would it really change your mind? Probably not.

Something that might interest you about this personality disorder; paranoid personality disorder typically will decrease in intensity with age.

My wife and I have also lived a near parallel life like ones described in these posts for the past 4 decades. The 5% variations are natural because PPD research is nearly impossible without volunteers. I DID NOT 100% BELIEVE THE INTERNET AND DISMISSED MY WIFE’S EPISODES! We had two young daughters to think about. So I dismissed PPD like most of you in disbelief and denial. PPD episodes continued but I kept them on a back burner thinking time shall heal all.

The site stumbled upon by MrPibb this description of PPD, does match nearly all of the PPD criteria shown by my wife. In addition, here are other symptoms & behaviors exhibited by my wife:

1) Checks and edits my emails to close family friends or relatives including any external help.
2) Times my every move to ensure extra time not spent doing something to hurt her “reputation”.
3) Spurns every move to get close to her – then gets annoyed if I don’t make any moves.
4) Expects me to read her mind when a slight hint is given about a movie, restaurant, shop, etc.
a) Usually makes the above hints when walking away from me or when I am distracted by something else like watching a particular dramatic scene on a given TV channel.
b) All hell breaks loose since I ignored her even though I cannot hear clearly when someone is behind me.
5) Claims items are being stolen by hired help when in fact they are misplaced and found later on either in a short time or days later.
6) Attacks my parents (both deceased some 25+ years ago) for my poor upbringing and being just like my family members in turning the whole world against her especially our daughters.
a) The incidents cited have nothing to do with what is troubling her currently. Just a weapon of attack due to the perceived slight felt before her irrational explosions.
b) She never has any proof of any phone calls, emails, texts, etc. – just her unquestionable convictions alone (like body language or phrases taken out of context) that I must be colluding with living family members in some sly manner.
c) Her parents and family members are always above reproach even if logically used to point out imperfections like any other family known to us.
i) Hence, I try not to comment on her family at all.
ii) But even this is taken out of context since I am favoring that particular family member and not her. Damned if you do, damned if you do not.
7) Absolutely refuses any kind of therapy or counseling by any 3rd party. Claims I am the one who needs the help and not her.
Argues on and on about same topic or issue even it has been settled. This only gets me more emotionally riled leading to:
a) Please don’t scream when I react to her own loud and deeply insulting remarks.
b) Closes all windows and doors as if the neighbors are always ready 24/7 waiting to eavesdrop.
c) Eventually crying and making me feel guilty to apologize for reactions to her accusations that took place since we were married some 40+ years ago. How can one defend oneself when neither of us can clearly remember what took place last month?
i) Needless to add that these past issues in dispute are completely separate and distinct from our current context. Most of them are simply distorted to prove her distrust in people at large.
ii) Classic PPD symptom – jump from one topic to another to prolong the current issue. Always her memory is 100% perfect – I am always the one who forgets conveniently.
iii) If I were to defend these innocent people in a sane logical manner, then I am AGAINST her.
d) After a few hours, we simply stay quiet, do something else, or change the topic as if nothing is wrong. This works!
Some reassurances, empathy, or rational logic has worked but only for a few weeks at a time. The PPD has only gotten worse. I am constantly walking on eggshells since any casual phrase or look can set off a PPD episode every week or so. My own personal actual details vary from the blogs read but the symptoms and conclusions are remarkably consistent.

I have researched several PPD sites on and off since 1995. However, I did not respond due to guilt, shame, and the fact that she is on the internet practically all day. I was afraid that she would eventually find this post proving her points during PPD episodes. Why risk it now? – PPD discussions can only help both of us and what more do I have to lose!

Hence what MrPibb wrote hit close to my predicament as well:

“I have learned that I cannot argue or reason my way out of these absurd accusations. I try to refute them without getting angry (which is hard), but it doesn't help. Yelling doesn't help. Calmly, rationally explaining things doesn't help. Trying to joke/laugh it off doesn't help. In her mind, I am guilty. Her conjured evidence is beyond dispute.”

Eventually I too discovered what Rapparee concluded:

Since a year I don't negotiate with my wife's paranoia, eg mention an alternative reason for this or that or even say "I'm sorry you think like that but I didn't do it"
I don't take her accusations personally and I respond very firmly with a denial.
Eg "Don't give negativity to our boy" "respect me as a father"
then full stop --- don't discuss the issue at all (no explanation is needed) and move on as normal. Would you like a cup of tea'? what's the weather forecast? Im going to cook the dinner now, etc And while you maintain this attitude, keep asking her to participate in your life.
EG. I'm taking the dog out would you like to come ? I'm going for cycle would you..?
Would you like to do join me in doing .......?
You firmly deny the paranoia, but at the same time show the desire for her company that you once had. You don't reject her, just reject outright those expressions of her paranoia, and don't discuss them.
She will relapse because that's what she does, but you keep constant.

Every story is very heart breaking - I do empathize with all of you and other sites on the internet! In a strange way, these posts do give me some hope and relief. Divorce does not make the PPD go away! My wife shall still suffer. My wife is extremely lovable when not consumed by PPD. Admittedly, the mental anguish on both sides is extremely unbearable as documented by you. In light of the prognosis: Paranoid personality disorder is often a chronic, lifelong condition; the long-term prognosis is usually not encouraging – what can the spouse or loved ones do to live with PPD until death does us apart? Therapy and medications only work if the PPD spouse faces the problem head on and the other is there for support. Needless to say, the effort required is very emotionally draining as all of you have experienced.

Staying married gives us both a straw to hang on to – at least take care of each other physically even if the mental state “is lost” at times! Most of the time the PPD episodes fade when left alone but can occur at any time as evidenced and documented in PPD posts. Based on our cultures and upbringing, I am a 100% sure that my wife would do the same for me if the shoes were reversed – either physically or mentally.

Finally even though I come across as negative about my wife and our situation, I certainly am never intentionally negative about my wife. Any negativity is directed at the illness and my own inability to deal with it by reacting in anger. I have been trying to understand that this illness is separate from my otherwise very caring wife. While it is sometimes easy to lose sight of the PPD illness factor, she is totally worth the effort it takes to support her and keep our family together.

The quote from Kierra (Mind disorders forum) touches me deeply and encapsulates the PPD affliction perfectly:

Mental/Personality disorders are very difficult though, they are called "personality" disorders because they have become part of how a person interprets and behaves in the world. The hardest things to ever change are ourselves, we only have our own reasoning, and when our reasoning has become damaging to us, how can we even know if we don't even have a clear lens to see ourselves through?

I wish I had a real solution but sharing sometimes eases the pain and frustration felt by ALL alike in dealing with PPD. I sincerely hope we all find some degree of peace and relief from PPD via these collective posts.

In response to what Traum mentioned:

Something that might interest you about this personality disorder; paranoid personality disorder typically will decrease in intensity with age.

This is NOT 100% true in my own experience of 40+ years. PPD gets worse with time. What does happen is that all involved learn to deal with it in our own ways. Please read the post on http://www.psychforums.com/paranoid-personality/topic10076-40.html#p1920118
by ReflexiveFlinch » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:59 pm

You will see how ReflexiveFlinch has learned to cope with PPD. Hope that helps us all.

Firstly, you spouses and family members are so strong. How hearbreaking this condition is. Please read my post and offer advice/ tips if possible. I am a nurse and counsellor and want to both help my loved one and learn how to professionally support these folks.

I am a healthcare professional working on the streets in a rough neighbourhood. In this job, I met a young woman, abandoned by family (though I think she may have cut them off too) and homeless because of addiction and mental health challenges.

When I met her I was charmed by her big personality, humor, and child like wonder. She was a lone wolf on the street but she became close with me; she would make me laugh and we would have very interesting conversations. I eventually essentially "adopted" her. My husband and I have no children and I said 'Honey, this young lady needs a family' and my husband agreed. We celebrate her birthdays, I see her 2-3 times a weeK and do many things to help her.

She has an addiction and is in constant chaos which I knew BUT over time it has become apparent that she meets every single criteria for PPD and this has been the biggest and most heartbreaking challenge. She doesn't trust ANYONE. Not even my husband and I anymore (though she still is open to me, and reaches out to me so I suppose it's not all lost)

At first I was constantly guilty. She would accuse me of stealing from her, talking with her family behind her back, sending 'messages' to her through the radio. She even accused me of getting close to her incase she got pregnant so I could get custody of her future child. She always says "If you truly cared about me, you'd tell me the truth about what's going on?!"

The trust I so delicately built with her seems destroyed and
I just kept asking myself "where did I go wrong?" The last thing I wanted to do to this young woman is hurt her.

I would like tips/ advice.

My goal was once providing a stable/ healing relationship for her to "reach her potential". My goal is now "creating boundaries and strategies that will make it possible for me to be in her life long term and to be a positive for her in some way".

How can I sustain the best possible relationship with a person with PPD?

I also want to ask the following question:
I sometimes worry that being close to her is damaging her...In other words, would she be better off alone? Or is she better off having a person who cares, on her side- eventhough I'm "constantly hurting her"?

I really appreciate the below tip by Rapparee. Thank you.

Rapparee wrote:
Since a year I don't negotiate with my wife's paranoia, eg mention an alternative reason for this or that or even say "I'm sorry you think like that but I didn't do it"
I don't take her accusations personally and I respond very firmly with a denial.
Eg "Don't give negativity to our boy" "respect me as a father"
then full stop --- don't discuss the issue at all (no explanation is needed) and move on as normal. Would you like a cup of tea'? what's the weather forecast? Im going to cook the dinner now, etc And while you maintain this attitude, keep asking her to participate in your life.
EG. I'm taking the dog out would you like to come ? I'm going for cycle would you..?
Would you like to do join me in doing .......?
You firmly deny the paranoia, but at the same time show the desire for her company that you once had. You don't reject her, just reject outright those expressions of her paranoia,
and don't discuss them.