Husband at a loss with PPD wife

Hi folks,

I am just looking for some advice, or tips on dealing with a wife with (undiagnosed) PPD. I say undiagnosed because she's not been specifically labeled as PPD, but she was once briefly committed for a paranoid breakdown in the past, although no official diagnosis/explanation was given. Anyhow, I stumbled upon this description of PPD, and she seems to match nearly all of the DSM criteria, so its pretty close if not PPD.

In any case, I suppose I am mostly venting, but I also could use some strategies for dealing with my situation, as clearly whatever I'm doing isn't working well and I'm near my wit's end.

So, on to the back story, my wife and I have been married for 15+ years, but she didn't really begin to show symptoms until 6-7 years ago or so. About 8 years ago, we moved to a new (rural) state, from a very large city, where she was born and raised. This turned out to be a much more traumatic move for her than either of us had anticipated. In hindsight, starting from when we moved, she became increasingly symptomatic, although I didn't realize it until things were at crisis levels. Everything was new- the people, our jobs, routines, etc, so she had no 'safetynet' to fall back on to cope.

In addition, at this time I made what turned out to be a disasterous miscalculation. While in the big city, I had set aside a sum of money that I intended to surprise her with as a down payment on our first house. This was incredibly stupid of me. When we started looking for a home in our new state, and I revealed my 'gift', she seemed fine with it, even happy to be able to afford a home, but fairly soon after moving in I realized my 'gift' had backfired. As it turns out, this was the first and most profound violation of her trust. Having lied about money and hidden it to her established in her mind that I am lying about everything and never to be trusted. Rapidly after that she degraded and became severely paranoid, and eventually showed up at one of my client's while I was there working one day, claiming I telepathically instructed her it was time to flee. After that, she spent about 1 week in an in-patient mental facility, but deemed no threat to anyone, she was released-- with no official diagnosis. Immediately after that, we began to rebuild our lives, and things slowly became more normal. So much so that eventually we both thought that was a one time incident, and moved on with our lives, had kids, etc.

Fast forward to today, and things aren't so ideal. Her issues have never really gone away, as I've learned, she just got very smart about hiding them for a while. Ever since I first violated her trust, in her mind, I have been doing horrible things behind her back, which she accuses me of periodically. She goes through cycles of being better or worse, but the common theme is me being the root of all evil. When things are bad, I am usually accused of being unfaithful, having affairs (apparently with other men) behind her back, or worse. None of this is even remotely true, but she always presents 'evidence' that is difficult to refute (akin to proving a negative).

For example, when I come to bed:
Her: "What were you doing sneaking around in the woods just now?"
Me: "Huh? I was watching TV on the couch for the last hour."
Her: "I HEARD you out there, don't lie! Were you meeting someone?"

Or:
Her: "What did you tell our son about me while I was sleeping?" (he's only 5)
Me: "Huh? Nothing!"
Her: "What did daddy tell you about mommy?" (to our son)
Son: "Nothing Mommy." or just confused silence.
Her: "Don't listen to anything Daddy says to you..."

Usually these bouts of paranoia blow over for a while, and she's often great between them. But they can get incredibly nasty, and now our children are getting old enough that they too are being roped into the problems, and I don't see that she's making any progress.

I have learned that I cannot argue or reason my way out of these absurd accusations. I try to refute them without getting angry (which is hard), but it doesn't help. Yelling doesn't help. Calmly, rationally explaining things doesn't help. Trying to joke/laugh it off doesn't help. In her mind, I am guilty. Her conjured evidence is beyond dispute.

In any event, thanks for reading. If anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears. I would especially love to know what someone with similar symptoms to my wife has to say, since, try as I might, I can't seem to see things from her perspective.

My story. Mother had narcissistic personality disorder. I adopted a son who has been diagnosed with the same. My MIL has PPD and I have been the target of her accusations for 35 years. Fortunately for me, my husband and I are united which is the point of my post.

I believe that compassion is in order. Yes, your wife has a disease. However, like any disease, you don't put yourself in harm's way. For example, I try to avoid being in a room when someone has a virus that I am likely to catch. Have compassion towards your wife but also have compassion for yourself.

Don't ever agree with their accusations because you feel frustrated. It only strengthens and validates their fears. If your wife is looking for a perceived wrong she will find it. Watch it like a movie rather than feeling the attack. You must find a support system for yourself because you cannot change anything that she does. She most likely will feel threatened by whatever support system that you develop. However, that should not stop you from having a healthy support system.
Living with someone who has a personality disorder is all consuming. Make sure that you have a hobby or something that takes your mind off of your wife. Oddly enough, the PPD is hyper-vigilant which provokes the same behavior is us.

In my own life, I learned to stop defending myself and to stop giving control and emotional energy to a personality disordered individual.

Hi Colorsofthewind, thanks for your perspective and advice. Your recommendation to find a support network is definitely true, but difficult when all one's energy goes into normal life things (managing a small business, making ends meet, trying to be a good dad, etc), as well as managing the symptoms and repercussions to my wife's condition-- leaving not much in the tank to do other things. I suppose that's one of the reasons I wound up here.

I feel as though I am in a catch-22 of sorts, and I need a way/plan to break the cycle. Any attempt to spend time with my kids can be seen as turning them against her. Any attempt to spend time on my own means I'm cheating on her. Any attempt to work on our finances is me spying on her. Etc, etc. Because of all this, I typically find myself in 'avoidance' mode, where I do my best to not do anything 'suspicious', which requires, as you say, hyper-vigilance, and is pretty draining and all around awful.

And, as you say I need to stop giving control to my wife's delusions by feeding into the accusations and defending myself so much. Its incredibly draining, and not at all effective. I feel as if there must be some approach or technique to help me diffuse things-- turn an impassioned, hurt and rage filled accusation around, exposing it as the (usually) silly, far fetched fantasy it is. Alas, it seems I've yet to stumble upon it on my own.

Mr Pibb, I am an retired and about 10 years ago my wife began to accuse me of infidelity. Her clues are delusional, but you cannot apply common sense or rationality to defuse these bizarre notions. I am always accused of being a liar. Some examples :surprise visits to me in the workshop to see if I am alone. My secret signals from the window when a particular female neighbor drives by. A step ladder which has been moved out of position to allow my lover to pull into the garage when my wife goes shopping. Talking to or even looking at a female guest or a waitress. I must be careful to dress plain when I go shopping , including underwear. Once while we were shopping I left to run a quick errand and came back to find my wife furious because of my tryst.

My wife is classically lacking "insight." Her peak anxiety is a sine wave , about every 4 to 6 weeks. Each time the accusations occur I plead, cajole, discuss seeing a therapist alone or together. Always
"you are the one who is crazy, a sociopath." I have researched "cognitive therapy" and tried my own technique . A delusional mode several years ago was her seeing me and my lover in our red GM car. Once day I saw a similar car with a man and woman in it and I sped up so my wife could see the couple. When I asked her if perhaps that car was the one she saw she just said maybe. That was the most success I ever had with home brew therapy.

The most frustrating thing is that intimacy has always been wonderful, but surprisingly soon after the intimacy the pattern returns.

I narrowed my wife's condition down after years of reading about mental illness. For a while I thought it was Delusional Disorder, but her symptoms more closely match Paranoid Personality Disorder and looking back over 50 years of marriage I know now it has always been present. Recently I read old age is supposed to moderate the symptoms, but not in her case. During a recent argument we came to physical struggle and she called 911-big mistake. They put her in the slammer overnite for domestic violence,and now we are in a no contact mode. This event was a squabble , but now is a serious obstacle as she thinks I planned it. The marriage may end. Along with the homeless in the US the care and administration of mental issues is pathetic. I had hoped at last the court could nudge my wife into therapy, but I learned even if guided into the local county "mental court" an accused must agree to therapy . I wrote a letter to the judge and it bounced off like water. I know how frustrating it is to live with a person and care for them only to have them deny and accuse. We are all human and even when well versed in the nature of the affliction we lapse and get angry. But this is when even more trouble can start. Please know I feel your pain.
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This is the first time I've looked into this web site and more specifically into the PPD. Speaking frankly, it was desperation. The eye catching statement was, "disastourous misclaculation." My friend, if you have only made one, consider yourself fortunate.

I've been married for 26 years, had no clue what was happending all these years, how to interpret symptoms, seek treatment, etc. My spouse is very strong willed, very convincing with her opinions and communications, etc. In fact, much of my married my life I was made to feel that it was all my problem. I needed counseling, doing a simple bank transfer was criticised, buying chips was excessive spending, constant concern what I was telling children and extreme pressure on the children never ever to discuss things about her without her... essentially this thing distroyed relationships with my children, friends and inlaws. I married without spending much time with spouse before marriage - we did not live together first. Shortly after marriage, it was the start of a extremely difficult journey. We've raised children - there was incredible amounts of tension, anger, isolation, etc. I stayed in large part with the idea of protecting my children from my spouses harsh periodic behavior...

My spouse seems to need a target was clearly with her father before marriage and me after marriage, and issues with supervisors during her very limited work history. It would be one of the children. My conclusion - I have no idea what's going on but how could I possibly leave, what would it mean for the children. There was strained and limite love life; and no itimacy effort after a couple of years of marriage , it seemed there was a pattern of 3 weeks out of 4 were filled with insane interactions... I could go on and on but won't.

After 26 years of marriage, I simply can't do it any longer. It's with great regret, guilt, remorse and the rest I'm pursuing a divorce. My spouse represents herself, doesn't trust any lawyer. The stress and pressures of this process and upcoming trial has a way of presenting the symptons in spades. Both my lawyer and others whose eye's have be surprised by the proceedings. It has helped me see things more clearly too. It was my lawyer's discussion and words she used that turned me to google PPD. I'm stunned to see all this after 26 years, considering all the pain and broken relationships over the years caused by lack of knowlege, understanding and coping strategies. The icidious nature of MH issues, it seems so unfair to the person suffering from the disorder, and it's so difficult on those living with the individual - what are folks left to do. It's so harsh to leave the person you once loved, it's painful to see all the relationships fall apart during the process, and it's hard on me who is now isolated from everyone because I'm the villian and my spouse is the victum. There is no way I can explain what the past 26 years have been like... for years I was so down on myself, felt guilty all the time, made to feel so incompetent while always having my intentions questioned in an aqusitory manner. Did I make the right decisions, etc. - I'll never know. I was left with 2 bad choices. Spend the next 25 years of my life living in this situation, having my wife perpetually slander my reputation and character with my children, family and friends... or, try to separate myself from it all and try to restart life and get out from under this dark cloud and empty/cold cave... I feel bad for my spouse - she is not evil person, she a good person, wants to help people, and efforts to do the right thing and to be caring to people. It's such a confusing mess. Emotional intelligence and empathy are not strong suites... I just can't do it anymore.

If you want to share notes or just commeserate similar experiences - just let me know. Maybe we can exchange email addresses if allowed by site. I hope things work out better for you.

(Sharing of email addresses is not allowed in open forum, users are encouraged to use the private messaging function)

Been married for ten years, didnt see the symptoms until last year when he had the first crisis, he was depressed, he thought he was in danger, that neighbors, friends, or even gardener, will hurt him, conspiring, he wouldnt eat, or sleep, he showed up at work saying he couldnt go back home , and he needed police protection, we went to the doctor, he referred him to a psychiatrist, then he decided he needed a change, he stayed with my family and continued treatment for a month
He said he missed his family, he is from uk, so he went back to uk and live with his sister, but he gave up treatment, in time, he found a job and was making new friends, but then another crisis...he started to feel in danger again, that people was conspiring against him, he left again, this time his sister and new friends were conspiring ...and now living with his brother
I begged him to not give up treatment, and i talk to his family but they didnt think there was something wrong.. they said he was just too much stressed, nothing else...but then in December...another crisis...he wouldnt get out of the house, his brother , took him to the doctor, and diagnosis was paranoid and delusional disorder...which i already know, and again treatment, he is been on treatment for one month now...next appointment is next friday Feb 12 th ...
We were planning to move, and i have done everything nearly, but, now i am thinking that its been a year and nothing has changed, i didnt see this coming , i really hope he goes to that appointment, that he realizes he needs it
I want to be strong and i want to see things working for us...we were planning to move, but sometimes i think may be its not happenning

MrPibb wrote:Hi Colorsofthewind, thanks for your perspective and advice. Your recommendation to find a support network is definitely true, but difficult when all one's energy goes into normal life things (managing a small business, making ends meet, trying to be a good dad, etc), as well as managing the symptoms and repercussions to my wife's condition-- leaving not much in the tank to do other things. I suppose that's one of the reasons I wound up here.

I feel as though I am in a catch-22 of sorts, and I need a way/plan to break the cycle. Any attempt to spend time with my kids can be seen as turning them against her. Any attempt to spend time on my own means I'm cheating on her. Any attempt to work on our finances is me spying on her. Etc, etc. Because of all this, I typically find myself in 'avoidance' mode, where I do my best to not do anything 'suspicious', which requires, as you say, hyper-vigilance, and is pretty draining and all around awful.

And, as you say I need to stop giving control to my wife's delusions by feeding into the accusations and defending myself so much. Its incredibly draining, and not at all effective. I feel as if there must be some approach or technique to help me diffuse things-- turn an impassioned, hurt and rage filled accusation around, exposing it as the (usually) silly, far fetched fantasy it is. Alas, it seems I've yet to stumble upon it on my own.

In general, you have to recover as much as you can of your self esteem, your confidence as a husband and father and in yourself. You have been battered, actually more like taken hostage and battered.
You are not her therapist so you don't have to validate her paranoia, her fears, her feeling terrified or even negotiate with it.
You learn not to take personally, her expressions of her paranoia that are directed toward you.
You might feel hurt at some expression of her paranoia, then move away, leave that space, observe how you feel that hurt, give yourself time to feel it,wait for the feeling to depart and then you will find that you can make different decisions about how you react to her paranoia next time.

Since a year I don't negotiate with my wife's paranoia, eg mention an alternative reason for this or that or even say "I'm sorry you think like that but I didn't do it"
I don't take her accusations personally and I respond very firmly with a denial.
Eg "Don't give negativity to our boy" "respect me as a father"
then full stop --- don't discuss the issue at all (no explanation is needed) and move on as normal. Would you like a cup of tea'? what's the weather forecast? Im going to cook the dinner now, etc And while you maintain this attitude, keep asking her to participate in your life.
EG. I'm taking the dog out would you like to come ? I'm going for cycle would you..?
Would you like to do join me in doing .......?
You firmly deny the paranoia, but at the same time show the desire for her company that you once had. You don't reject her, just reject outright those expressions of her paranoia,
and don't discuss them.
She will relapse because that's what she does, but you keep constant.
Maybe it took me and myne about 9 months, just when I had given up and withdrew she came out of her emotional wilderness.
With my wife there's a twin reality still going on, the toxic paranoia exists in tandem with a healthier reality but it's not being triggered. If I pressed that paraonid zone, eg. "do you still believe that I stole from your bank account?" then no doubt she would retreat, relapse and become fearful etc. That place is a cloak of fear and best left dormant.
She has come from a severe position where she had some temporary psychotic experiences,
to the present where she is just back to her pre toxic paranoid state. That toxic paranoia is still lurking around now, but resting.

I have been married 18 years today. I have 7 children. My wife was diagnosed with with PPD 5 years ago. I was diagnosed with Depression and codependncy behaviors at that time also.

I have allowed my life to slowly peel away from the outside world trying to act in a way which would keep my wife from being angry, jealous of spending time with our children, jealous of spending time with my family of origen, friends, etc. I have allowed her to speak to me in a very demenaing way to me and infront of our kids. I have allowed her to take charge of the house and I just became another kid in the house jumping from event to event on her calendar. The final straw for me was that I allowed her to dictate that I could only see my father who was in hospice and living 5 minutes from us when she wanted to go with me. We only went twice and once was for her to demand an apology from him and the other was only 20 min with our children about 1 week before his death. I did all of that so I could 'prove my love to her' again and show her that I really kept her #1 in my life. However, when my father died, she was just as mad as she was before. I realized that these 'proofs of love' is really just abuse that I have let her do to me. And I have allowed myself to give up interaction with my older kids over the last 13 years (oldest is 16) just to keep her love tank full and to help control her reactions. We have four younger children that I decided I am not going to have that happen to them.

I moved out of the home after another episode in front of our children. Although she had told our children 3 different times over the course of 8 years that she was divorcing me she never did. I would do 'anything' to keep her from leaving. I allowed her to use this power over me to cave to her unreasonable and unhealthy demands over the years.

I got an apartment on a 3 month lease. I thought it would perhaps settle things down. However it has gotten so much worse. She has alientanated me from the children.
***She has told my 10 daughter to call me and tell me 'papi you cannot come to anymore of my volleyball games or mami will take me out of volleyball this season'
***Told my 9 year old that she cannot sit next to me at the school mass or she will get in trouble
***Had my 14 yr old text me and tell me not to text her anymore. Any questions I have must be sent to mami.
***Blocked me from coming into the house by standing outside the door and saying move me.
*** The days she has 'given me permission' to come to the house, only the 2yr old is at the house and all the others are spending the night at a friends house.
*** Had our daughters tutor take her to a church event then the tudor told me that I was not allowed to take my daughter home because the tudor was the one that brought her.
***Has told many in our church and mutual friends that I am abusing her, controlling her. It is really her. My problem is that I am to passive and like to avoid confrontation. It is her that she is describing.
***Has my kids lie and his nurse by saying that they do not know my youngest son was. He was actually at the emergency room for pnemonia. Only my 5 yr daughter blurted out that he was in the hospital. Our son is home on a ventilator with 12 hour nursing care.
*** My wife blocked me in our room and told me that if I wanted to leave our bedroom that I would have to signed a paper stating that I agree to all her rules and time she has picked for me to visit the house.

Because of this isolation that has only happened since I left 35 days ago, I have filed for divorce and she should be served by Tuesday of next week. I am so sad, angry, hurt, and other feelings I am still trying to sort out.

It is conforting to see that there are others that have experienced these same fears, anger, etc.

Greetings and best wishes to those who posted and all who live with the effects of PPD. Since I last posted and about halfway through divorce proceedings I have learned some things that may be of interest. I am an "out spouse." This is a term for a spouse who is not involved in the family finances,one who leaves it all up to the spouse. The classic profile is that of wife whose philandering husband has affairs and hides assets. But especially these days ladies can resemble the profile-like my wife. My wife was a programmer and before that an accountant and excellent with figures and data. That plus her poor background motivated me to just let her run the finances for the last 29 years (positive therapy,I thought). Before that , we switched off. By necessity I have had to finely examine the records left behind when my wife was placed on no contact by the court. What I have found is that she has created several "personal" bank accounts which I cannot access on line. And she has moved assets out of state against the court guidelines. Normally very authoritarian and compliant I do not know why she did this,perhaps a burst of mania?? Anyway I will now take time to relate an astonishing (to me) event discovered in my analysis of accounts.

Among other traits my wife has always been jealous and sensitive to her sisters actions (she is the oldest). Several years ago an aunt decided to distribute estate jewelry to my wife and her sisters. In that activity my wife felt greatly slighted and carried on and on about how unfair her share was. None of the rings was truly expensive. Finally I told her to go buy herself a ring of choice, that we certainly could afford it and that it might make her feel better. That episode somewhat faded into the past, but it became illuminated in my investigation. I found that about that time my wife had made payments across several years of approximately $1000 /month to a jewelry store. Total over $30,000. There is no way online to see exactly what was going on, but recently an investigator spend almost one full day evaluating jewelry in a security box of which I had not prior knowledge. The significant issue to share with you is that this outrageous expenditure in no way placated or comforted her. I see in posts that many , like me , think loving and patient care can overcome the pernicious actions seen from time to time, but as I look back it seems in vain. Especially where the key issue in the final spat was her incessant accusations of my infidelity where there was none. I have read one technique in dealing with the worst of the paranoia is to pretend you are watching a film. I never tried that. Again warm wishes to those struggling in such relationships.