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Adult ODD Worse than in Childhood?

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Adult ODD Worse than in Childhood?

Postby bannor » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:21 pm

My counselor has suggested that I look into oppositional defiance. Of course, the first thing I learned is that it's considered a childhood condition. But if anything, mine appears to have increased in adulthood. Is that possible/likely? Should I be looking for something different?

Some backstory: I grew up in a good two-parent family, no trauma that I'm dealing with. My IQ is about 160, and I tested at the 8th grade level when I entered kindergarten. Some teachers let me work ahead, but schoolwork was still dreadfully dull and easy. My mom says the one thing you didn't want to tell me as a child was that I couldn't do something or was too young to do something. Apparently that would make me furious. (a clue?)

Throughout school, I developed the habit of doing my work at the last minute -- two-week essays written on the bus the morning they were due, for instance. I never had to work hard or study (another clue?). As I got older, I started turning things in late, and using the extra credit to make up for the points I'd use for lateness, or turning in A work and getting a C because it was late. I dropped out of college after one semester in which I failed a couple of classes for not showing up.

Once I got a job, I always showed up on time and did my job. I was a good worker, but I never took on more work than I needed to keep the bills paid. No second job to save up for anything, that kind of thing. I've always been punctual about being places, but not about finishing projects. About 15 years ago I became self-employed, and it's been a constant struggle to get things done, whether it's work for clients, organizing my office, filing taxes, etc. I tend to put things off and go over deadline until I absolutely have to have the money to keep from getting evicted or something like that, and then I buckle down and rip through it. Generally the work is easy and doesn't take long, and I feel stupid for putting it off.

I was diagnosed ADD a couple years ago, which seemed to make sense because I'd constantly get distracted from whatever I needed to be doing. But the ADD meds only gave me more energy; I still resisted doing the work. And when there's some sort of emergency, like a midnight call about a critical computer system that's down, I can focus like a laser on it until it's fixed. So I CAN focus, I just usually don't.

Now my counselor has helped me to understand that I'm unconsciously distracting myself from work because I simply DON"T WANT TO DO IT. We think it may be rooted in the fact that I never had to obey someone else's timetable when I was growing up, because I could always pull it out at the last second. It seems I'm still trying to do that, except it's not the last second before the deadline, but the last second before someone fires me.

I don't seem to be averse to working hard. I do very hard puzzles, and I spend time on forums helping other people with difficult computer programming problems. But those things are voluntary. It seems like as soon as something becomes work that I MUST do, I resist it. I've started projects of my own that I cruised through until I hit the point where it was time to make it public where I would have to be responsible for maintaining it, and then I hit a roadblock. My counselor thinks I hate to give anyone else control over me and my time. I think she has a point. I'm also terrible about estimating the time a project will take and setting realistic deadlines, and we think that comes from the same place -- I don't want to obligate myself to keep to a promised timetable, so I just can't come up with one.

I'm not violent, and I don't think I'm anti-social. I'm quite introverted, so I'm not a social butterfly, but I do have friends, and I get lonely if I spend a couple days alone. So an anti-social disorder doesn't seem to fit.

Any suggestions? I do think she's onto something, but I'm not sure where to go next with it. Recently I'm scheduling myself for one solid hour of work every evening, and even that is a struggle. As soon as I start to think about sitting down and starting that hour, I feel exhausted and start thinking of excuses. Many nights, I manage to forget about it altogether. So I'm hoping to find tips, some way to kick myself into starting work sometime before that absolutely last possible minute, and to learn the self-discipline I grew up without.

Sorry this got so long; maybe it'll help someone similar down the road.
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Re: Adult ODD Worse than in Childhood?

Postby javert » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:14 am

Welcome. Do you find your work boring? If you're highly intelligent it might be difficult for you to find challenging work. Perhaps you don't want to do a lot of things because they are boring and easy, and you don't get any satisfaction by completing them?

I find solving problems to be much more satisfying than maintaining systems. I thrived when I got to start-up a business department, implement the IT systems and design the workflow, but struggled and ended-up quitting once everything was established and it just needed to be managed.

I wouldn't have thought that you fit the pattern of a typical person with ODD. I'm not saying that your counsellor is wrong, but from what you've written I don't get the sense that you're a person who has low self-esteem, is easily angered and hot-tempered, and who seeks to annoy and blame others. In your explanation you have not blamed anyone but yourself for your problems. Also it seems that your negative behaviour mainly hurts yourself - not other people.

Do you resist relinquishing control with everybody equally? I don't like taking orders, and I find it especially difficult when the orders are from people who I don't respect, don't trust and/or who I think are less intelligent or knowledgeable than me. If I believe that a person knows best, I am usually quite willing to cooperate with their requests.

Sorry, I don't know the answers that you're looking for. However if I were you, I'd be exploring why you're motivated to complete some tasks and not others (e.g. solving the midnight computer system crisis, but not completing university coursework.) Is it the challenge? The adrenaline that comes from a real problem and time pressures? The fact that you were helping someone else?

Or perhaps a fear of something is getting in the way? Can you accept less-than-perfect results e.g. that you might fail a subject or calculate your taxes imperfectly? If you grew-up as the super-smart kid, you may have been used to always getting things correct, and you may be uncomfortable accepting anything less from yourself. One way to deal with the fear of imperfection is to avoid tasks or to leave them to the last minute. (If you don’t do them, or if you don’t give yourself enough time to do them, your ego is protected because you can tell yourself that if you had done them and allowed yourself enough time, then of course you would have done them perfectly.)
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Re: Adult ODD Worse than in Childhood?

Postby MKultramega » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:42 am

Bannors post really hits home for me. 


I'm 41(M) and married with 2 children. I was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD just before my oldest son (12) was diagnosed with same. That was about 2 years ago. Living with him has been a mirror for me and has given me insight into my own condition, assuming the diagnosis is correct ;o) 


School was too easy and I was bored. I did only what I had to do in order to pass; everything else was a waste of time for me. I had the potential to do very well but I couldn't be bothered to put in the effort. One year my parents bribed me with a dog if I maintained a 90+ average in high school. I did it for a year and got a dog, then pulled C's and B's, and I just barely passed senior year.  The important thing to note here is that I'm finally seeing this from 'the outside in', so I'm seeing my behavior for what it really was, not what I told myself it was. I blamed all of my problems on everyone and everything but myself and I refused to put in any effort towards something I didn't find 'interesting'. 


Luckily I got a job after 3 semesters of half going to college and really enjoyed what I did. I exceled at work and moved into my own place as fast as I could.


Living with my parents was like oil and water. They raised me how they were raised, with strict discipline and a short fuse for nonsense. Knowing what I know now, I guess that was a bad fit and it certainly didn't help our relationship. I don't speak to them much anymore. They don't understand mental illness and don't seem interested in finding out about it. 


Anywho, I met my soon to be wife (who hasn't spoken to me in a week now) at work and while we were dating I had a really bad stretch of anxiety / agoraphobia with depression as a result of not leaving my house willingly for a while. You know how they say you marry your mother? They're correct. 


Unfortunately, it's been 20 years and she's just about had it. Fortunately, I finally realize WTF she's been yelling about for 20 years and I'm hoping it's not too late to fix it. 


Bannor and others who can't find the motivation to complete simple tasks on time, what's working for me is strenuous exercise at least 3 days per week, eating healthier foods and a prescription for a low dose of Adderall 2x per day. Those 3 things have knocked my ADHD down a few pegs and I'm accomplishing things like they're MOSTLY interesting to me. My best advice to anyone dealing with this is to GET OFF YOUR ASS AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Don't wait. Find a doctor or LCSW or someone who is experienced (I use BetterHelp and it's great). Don't skip any sessions and be honest about how you feel and what you think. You're going to have to work and it's going to suck for a while, but then it doesn't and it's perfectly natural to PREFER to be ahead of the game instead of just on the edge of disaster. 


I think the ODD is much more difficult to address because it's not solved by anything other than behavior modification from what I have heard. You have to first recognize that your behavior isn't working and be open to trying new behaviors. Then, with the help of the people closest to you (if you haven't alienated them), you can get some feedback on your progress and some constructive (hopefully) criticism when you're off-base. Eventually you'll lose that ODD way of thinking and be able to think more logically. 


I hope this helps someone like Bannor's post helped me. Also, hello everyone and thanks for taking the time to read this far down!
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