is it ODD?

My son was diagnosed as ODD when he was around 8, he is now 14, and a handle to deal with. Granted we had a rough life my partner at that time was very controlling, and blamed him for everything. But most of what he was blamed for he did. Now, he still wants to hold that relationship over my head, and we've been out of there for 2 years now. He lies to me, even when he knows I know the truth ( because he doesn't want to hear me yell) so he says. But I've tried not yelling at him, and still do not get hte truth. He's destructive ( he threw his knife at the walls in his bedroom to see if he could get it to stick ) . He's very angry, when he gets mad, he hits things, there's a hole in his closet, that he's been hitting for a whlie now, and yesterday, hit the outside of the house ( it's vinyl siding) because he was mad. He is 5'11 and weighs 190, I'm not afraid of him, I know he would never put his hands on me, but he says he hits things, only if they hurt his hand, or he'll break things he says to hear the loud noise. I can tak to him as if he were an adult, he has the mind of an adult, but just doesn't "get it" maybe that's the problem? Cause I've never treated hinm like a child, because he's never acted like one? I don't know. He's very smart, in 7th grade his IQ was 127, he passes all his classes with flying colors ( when he's in them and not being suspended ) he can't stand for anyone to tell him what to do - for instance he knows he has to unload and load the dishwasher. If I leave the door open, he'll do it as soon as he sees that it is open , caught him doing it one morning at 7 am ON SATURDAY!! but if I say, son the dishwasher needs to be done please, he tells me he'll do it later.. then later never comes, and it becomes an arguement about what few chores he has, and everything gets exaggerated..
The Dr's back then put him on every med that was out there, I do not want him on any more meds, he has also been to countless therapists - nothing worked. I know he loves me, but I'm wondering what goes on in his head, he's almost like a 2 yr old, give him what he wants, and there's no problem, but that doesn't happen in the real world, and hello he's 14 time to grow up right?
he does have terrible mood swings, but I don't think he's bi-polar or anything like that - although haven't had him tested for that . When he was younger, his diagnosis went from ADD to ADHD to ODD, so I'm not really sure if THEY knew what he was.
Anyway, thanks for listening, and any advice is welcome
Have a good day

Hi Mamaofmany. You are describing my son to a "T" many years ago. I understand him more now than I did back then. His biological father left us when he was 15 mo old and he had a stepdad that basically "used" him as a farm slave. He has abandonment issues and also had adhd. I didn't have him medicated back then because we didn't know what the long term affects would be. He became ODD as a teenager and began self medicating with drugs and alcohol. He dropped out of school and we had him in rehab once for a month (but that wasn't long enough) He got off the hard drugs but still uses alcohol and marijuana to self-medicate. He is now 33 years old and has antisocial personality disorder. What I believe would have helped my son was to have had a good, strong, positive male role model in his life -someone he could look up to and trust that has time to spend quality time with him and show him unconditional love. Do you have a father, brother or very close male friend who would be willing to do male bonding kind of things with him? (go fishing, drag races, football games, - anything guys like to do together). Or perhaps a big brothers program would have someone they could pair him up with for regular activities. He needs a male figure to talk to him about his feelings about his real dad and stepdad and how to let go of whatever feelings are making him angry. It's so hard and so frustrating not knowing how to help them. Counselors can be good if you can find one that he "clicks" with. His anger and destructiveness are just an expression of his fear, insecurity, frustration, and self-loathing. He needs lots of love and understanding and individual attention. He also needs focus on something other than himself if you can find his passion and point him in that direction. I pray he will not turn to drugs as that only escalates the problems. This is a very difficult situation for both of you.

no, unfortunately, he has no male role model, even the men friends I have that are just that - friends, he knows they are not worth a damn! And he's right, I mean they are good people, but as far as being a role model? NO. I do things with him, I will fish, and camp and stuff - and it makes him feel good when I ask him to take the fish off hte line for me, although I will bait my own hook
Anyway, he has experimented with pot, and I know alcohol, and cigs, but I know for a fact, he can't stand beer or cigs, he says they're both nasty, and cigs make him stink - so I guess that's a good thing.
I have looked into big bros., but never got a reply - go figure
It almost seems like no help is out there - and the school's? ha that's a joke too! They never want to get involved until the end of the yr., when nothing can be done - this yr. they're threatening to send him to an alt. schol, that's sweeping his probs under the carpet if you ask me.
thanks for listening, I wish my family were closer, they are in Nebraska and Kansas, and my sisters have really GREAT husbands!
For now, I can only be mom and dad and love him!!

that ws me ^ ^

Yes, mama, it's really good that you spend time with your son and love him unconditionally but since the underlying problem is the fact that he does not have a bond with a male role model and feels the abandonment from the lack of that, he is reactive in his life and responds to anything negative with oppositional behavior. He will probably continue to medicate himself with marijuana if other drugs are repulsive to him (and hopefully continue to be). However, usually they try other drugs and find something stronger to numb their pain. Deep down he probably feels he has no father because he's bad (or at least not good enough) and doesn't deserve to have one. So he lashes out to anyone that dares try to guide or direct him (authority figures like a father WOULD be if there was one in his life). He resents not having a good father who loves him and may not even realize this is why he feels so angry. The same sex parent is the most important role model for a developing child (but you are also VERY important to him). He may always suffer from a low self esteem because of this emptiness in his life.

My 16 yo daughter (she'll be 17 in September) was dx'd as bipolar back in Dec 2005 and was put on 3 meds (wellbutrin, risperdal and trileptal). It seemed to work - somewhat - however, within the past 3 months, I've had to call the police 2 times and have her taken to the Detention Center (DC) where she stayed a few days then went to a treatment facility (what a joke!).

Anyway, this last time - about a month and a half ago - we finally got her court committed to the state hospital's adolescent program, which is supposed to be really good. So far, I'm fairly impressed. The doc decided to take her off all her meds to see how she'd act, etc., and at this point, he and his team do NOT see any bipolar disease in her. He seems to feel it's more ODD-related issues. And after researching a bit on the internet, the ODD symptoms fit Cara (my daughter) perfectly.

Are there meds that they can take for ODD? Some things I read indicate there are not, some say there are, i.e., Risperdal among others.

I guess I'll just wait and see how things go. They want to keep her till at least the end of August. I miss her so much, but want her to get the help she needs. She's my heart and soul. I'm a single mom, too, which makes it that much harder.

God bless.....
Carole

It sounds like your son's defiance may be linked to impulstivity such as when he threw a nife at the wall. For a teen with ADHD when something comes to your mind you can be going so fast that you just do it without thinking about what's going to happen next. If he seems sorry after an episode it's more likely to be ADHD than ODD as most kids with ODD seem not to care.

Also a key characteristic of gifted children is judgement tends to lag behind development so a 14 year old with an IQ of 129 may be intellectually be 18 but still emotionally be 14. Sometimes gifted teens will act out in class if the work isn't challenging enough, if your intrested some schools will let children skip grades, join a pull-out gifted program, or skip a grade just for certain subjects like taking 9th grade algebra but 12th grade english & 11th grade history. I skipped 1.5 grades and it really helps me to stay focused. It's not uncommon for gifted children to also have psychological disorders, this is called being Twice Exceptional.

If you or your son would ever like to talk I'd love to talk with you guys. I'm also a gifted teen with ADHD/OCD/Tourette's .

Here's some articles you might be intrested in
http://gtworld.org/iqgrade.html?
http://www.uniquelygifted.org/challenge.htm
http://www.addresources.org/article_gifted_lovecky.php
~Jennifer