Unsure of the direction of my thoughts

I've never been a violent person. Not when I was a child, not when I grew up. Recently, I've been feeling like I don't know who I am. I began with thoughts about impulsively wanting to break up with my girlfriend. Felt like an urge rather something I wanted to do for the better, etc. That day, I had an anxiety attack. Immediately the next day, upon watching a horror movie, I began having recurring thoughts about harming her. Such as psychotic thoughts, involving murder both intentional and unintentional. I've visited several psychologists, and I haven't seen any progress. Visited a psychiatrist who made several studies, and disregarded a case of epilepsy, however did not give me a diagnose whether I could have OCD or an Anxiety Disorder. I've read a lot about OCD. Amongst all of the things I've read about, I identify a few characteristics in myself, yet again, without a proper diagnosis I still remain in the dark. Nevertheless, even without a diagnosis, the psychiatrist did advice me to get medicated. However, I still live with my parents, and they refused for me to undergo through therapy while taking medication. They been doing everything they can to avoid me getting medicated, although to be honest, I don't feel very well. I have all sorts of intrusive thoughts on a daily basis. Regarding harm to people close to myself, doubting my sexuality, doubting my relationship, thinking I might have paraphilias, and to make it worse, I've been having what I think are called groinal responses to them. At this point, I am unsure if these "reactions" are generated by anxiety, or represent true arousal, as well as for my thoughts, I can't distinguish anymore if a thought is coming from myself or is from intrusive nature. I feel like this is making it really hard for me to cope with my studies and work, as well as with my relationship. I feel really frustrated.

Hello and welcome to the forums!

Forgive me a little extra interest at your post- you see, my biggest OCD manifestation was what some call harm-OCD. We don't get a whole lot of posts like yours here, but it is the OCD theme that I can relate the most to!

I've had harm-related OCD intrusive thoughts for over four decades, now. The most common manifestations of harm-related intrusive thoughts are going to involve loved ones, and pets, from what I've read. Even though the vast majority of posts to the OCD forum are sexual in nature (and I have my private theories on why that is), intrusive harm thoughts are supposedly quite common in OCD sufferers.

In fact, from what I've read- those thoughts aren't even uncommon among people that do not have OCD. The difference being is that normal people shrug such thoughts off as they get them, and don't think any more about them. If you're like me, you'll find that hard to believe- that ordinary people get those kinds of thoughts and don't think twice about them. But that's what I hear.

We don't shrug such thoughts off, obviously. The thoughts frighten us, and make us worry as if we really want to do those things, or that we'll be unable to help ourselves from doing them, yes?

Given that you have intrusive thoughts about other things, sexually and your relationship, it seems as if this appears to be OCD style thinking- I'm surprised you weren't diagnosed with that- I think I'd see a different doctor, if I could. I know I feel as if this is OCD for you. But I'm not the professional.

I don't have an official diagnosis, however I've had anxiety issues for most of my life, and I know I'm OCD, easily. My intrusive harm thoughts began during a tough period of my life, when I was around 10 or 11 years old- that I would kill myself, my parents, my pet. They were extremely disturbing, as you can imagine- a child that has absolutely nothing to compare their thoughts to- and this was long, long before the internet. And what little I told my parents apparently didn't drive them to seek mental help for me, so I was left alone to suffer, thinking I was, or was about to be, possessed by demons at any moment.

My harm OCD thoughts have come in waves, throughout my life. I'm much better at managing them now, when I finally realised that I've had plenty of time to act on them- I haven't- it stands to reason I'm not going to. I'm not going to do anything I don't want to do, and those thoughts can't make me.

I finally learned to ignore such thoughts- for the most part. I do have trouble with other harm-related fears and thoughts, fears I might inadvertently, or will have already inadvertently, caused harm- such as hitting a bump and then having to go back to make sure it wasn't an invisible person! That's also fairly common, I think, with OCD sufferers. Making sure things won't start a fire; etc.

But as far as intrusive harm thoughts "I'm going to kill my (fill in the blank)" kind of thoughts... those have become fairly easy to deal with- it just takes practice. You're not your thoughts. These are ego-dystonic. They're not part of your core being- if they were, they wouldn't be so frightening. You haven't done anything like that... therefore... you're not going to.

It helped me to view OCD as both a mental health condition, and also as a living thing, a demon, inside my head- he has squatter's rights. I can't get rid of him. But he eats fear- and if I don't give him fear, he grows weaker, and less able to try and make me give him fear. For me, that's a very useful analogy- the idea is to keep him half-starved.

For me, it was a combination of things- learning to not worry about having the thoughts in the first place- it's impossible to stop thinking about something you're worried about thinking about. I resigned myself to the fact I'm going to get intrusive harm thoughts.

Also I had to get stubborn- I'm not going to DO those things, no matter how much my brain screams it at me. Can't make me! I've had decades to go on a killing spree- I have not- therefore it's safe to say, not gonna. Don't wanna, not gonna. Can't make me. Because of course, OCD will try to say I won't be able to help myself, I'll even do it in my sleep- or I'll disassociate (I might have multiple personalities in the form of OSDD1b) and one of my other alts will do it.

Well, no. Just no. Haven't done it, nothing to demonstrate that it's going to change.

Another thing is to defer worry to when it's needed. I began to tell myself I'll worry about it, after I've done it- not before. In your shoes, that means I'll worry about killing my girlfriend, when I've done it. Not before. I tell OCD when I come to myself, standing over a dead body, covered in blood, THEN I'll worry. Not before. I refuse to worry I'm going to do something I haven't done. Furthermore, I make the decision to not care. Don't care if I might do it. Nope, don't care, I'll care when I've done it.

Now... mind you, of course I really care whether I kill someone or not. But it's the attitude that's important. You have to make yourself have an attitude of I don't give a rat's ass. Because I know my thoughts can't make me do it- if they could, I'd have done it 40 years ago. I've had a long time, to get my name in the news. I haven't. Therefore it's all smoke-and-mirrors, designed to keep me afraid of myself.

There's nothing special or magical about any of those things I just went through. It just takes practice. At first it's really, super hard. Because you feel as if you ought to be bothered and frightened by the thoughts. I mean you're a monster for thinking them, right???? Well, no. Not when I read that ordinary people get fleeting harm thoughts and immediately set them aside. We just have to work for it, in our case. Since we can't just shrug them off. We have to learn to.

But the more you do that, even though it feels as if you're just fooling yourself, it really does get easier with time. It gets easier to not let those thoughts bother you, and the thoughts come less and less. I still get them- but I can usually shrug them off (and forget I even had them), in a matter of minutes. Instead of worrying half the night (or day) that I'm going to do them. And I get them a lot less than I used to- because of that fear-eating demon analogy. I'm starving that OCD theme out- making it less able to do what it does. The more I make myself not worry about those intrusive thoughts, the weaker they are, and the less they're able to come around and bother me.

That's how I've beaten them- your mileage may vary. Just remember that as far as I know, no one is ever completely free of OCD- so if this is what's going on- and it certainly sounds like it- that you'll never completely lose such intrusive thoughts- they'll also test you, every so often- to see if you're still not afraid of them.



I find it bothersome that you've been to see a professional, and didn't get something more definitive- whether it be what this sounds like (OCD/anxiety), or something else. I'm also bothered that your parents didn't want you medicated.

As far as I know, there's no medication that can cure OCD. But... it can take the edge off. That idea of your parents for you to have therapy, but not wanting you to have medication, is, frankly, stupid in my opinion. Meds take the edge off, while you're learning to deal with the anxiety via therapy! Saying you shouldn't be on meds during therapy, to me sounds the same as if they said you can't use crutches while your broken leg heals. I suppose they're concerned you'll grow to rely on the meds and be on them forever- but still.... some folks OCD is so bad that no amount of therapy seems to get through, unless they have that crutch to lean on. Sometimes you just need a little help.

All right so that's my thoughts on it. Just remember you're definitely not alone- you're not even unique, in having these intrusive thoughts. Just tell yourself how they're just thoughts- they're not you.

Snaga wrote:Hello and welcome to the forums!

Thanks for the welcoming. It's been really hard dealing with this lately. Adding quarantine to the situation, memories fluctuated as all I can really do is think.

**TRIGGER WARNINGS**

[ !!! Before anyone reads this, I will visit topics that I assume may be triggering to others. I wouldn't want anyone who finds themselves sensitive to this content reading it. Thank you. ]

At first, it seemed difficult to believe I had OCD. I always associated OCD with symmetry, or with cleaning compulsive behavior. The difference was that, OCD was the first thing to pop up as soon as I bursted everything I felt into a google search.

Upon further reading, I realized I had repressed some memories. I do not know as I am no expert regarding the matter, but can you have multiple obsessions throughout your life?

The first manifestation I had was when I was really young. Would say around 7-8. My parents claim we were watching a show about germs and viruses. Immediately after that, they said I adopted pretty strange behaviours.

I would be sitting, playing with my toys and suddenly, I'd start thinking out of nowhere that I was infected. That millions of germs and bacteria where moving through my hands, and that they wanted to get inside of my body.

My hands would feel very warm, don't know if that was either stress or anxiety but I would always take it as a sign to wash my hands. I would then go and wash my hands repetitively, sometimes even 3 times as touching the door handle repeated the process.

I also grew afraid of objects close to mine being infected with germs. I'd become obsessed with the idea that my toys were filled with germs, so I would search for a bucket, water and soap and rinse them repetitively.

That is what I consider my first exposure, yet my doubt is, why isn't it the same obsession as before? I assume I grew out of it, but it didn't stop with that.

My second obsession was of religious nature. I had seen multiple movies (such as Jennifer's Body and a Cartoon Show) that involved Satanic Rituals / Selling your Soul themes. I remember I started feeling horrible whenever I happened to be somewhere religious. My mind would started spinning, filled with the urge or idea of screaming bad words towards religious figures that I knew were important.

My obsession evolved into the idea of possibly being possessed, or losing control and selling my soul to the devil.I remember having terrible fevers, and headaches. I would spend all of my day thinking whether I could be capable of doing these things willingly, or even worse, not being aware and unable to control myself.

Things come to a further end when I reach my middle school years. These were by far my worst experiences out of them all.
During middle school, my grades went down bad. I was failing every single subject, and I didn't feel a thing about it.

My parents panicked, and due to the situation, they said they would take extreme measures. During a period of time, I exposed myself to several things I am not proud of.

I would spend hours and hours watching stupid YouTube videos regarding things like Psychopaths and murder mysteries. Not to mention, my parents were a fan of these as well, so it was common for my family to watch shows about serial killers and different cases.

During this time I began with my intrusive thoughts about harm. My dad used to accuse me back then of being narcissistic, and warning me I could potentially be a psychopath. I grew obsessed with the idea, and I know at some point I started believing so.

I watched more and more videos of serial killers, read many articles, and hit rock bottom when I watched a YouTube video that included a link to a recording of two young men describing the process of how they were going to murder someone.

Even worse, I watched that recording. I was able to watch until the actual murder took place. I felt sick to my stomach and took the video off.

I didn't talk with my parents about what was going on back then. They instead were focused on the downfall of my grades. Shortly after this, my parents took away the internet in my house. Then my console. Then the TV. They even went to a point we're they told me they would take away pencils, pens and markers, because they were all I could entertain myself with.

My parents also worked all day, so they would pick me up from school, drop me off at home, lock the house, and go to work. I spent around 7 hours, locked up, all by myself.

During these times, my intrusive thoughts worsened. I started having all sorts of thoughts. Thoughts about going outside and killing random people. Or my parents. They felt so alien. Things I knew for sure I'd never do, but I was unsure if they were just thoughts or urges.

I began with the headaches again, and the fevers. Prolonged hours of thinking of what could happen, and when.

Eventually I hit rock bottom. Fell into depression. Everything seemed wrong. I talked with a close friend of mine about my suicidal tendencies. He got worried and he told my parents.

When I got home, they revealed they knew about my intentions, and confronted me. Upon this confrontation, I told them I sincerely was contemplating suicide.

Now, before anyone judges my parents, I judged them too. But I understood at some point that, they were skeptical. For them, my life seemed okay. And I understand it was tough to set themselves on my shoes, because, regardless of the fact that my life wasn't certainly the worst, it wasn't okay either.

I say this because, they pushed me to do it. They didn't believe I was capable of hurting myself, my dad dared me too. Said he would help me. And, I did.

I believe this caused a severe impact on me. A suicide attempt, encouraged by my parents felt terrible and eventually was the final straw.

This happened in middle school a couple years ago- and what is happening right now seems somewhat similar, yet feels different at the same time.

I sometimes wonder, what if I do not have OCD? What if I just want to believe that to hide that I would really act upon all of the things I think about? I feel depressed, and that I am affecting others. I can't stop asking myself questions.

I believe this to be one of my main questions, is it possible to have multiple obsessions as I've described? Thanks a lot for your reassurance SNAGA. It does make me feel better knowing I am understood.

People frequently switch from obsession to obsession. We can only keep up the extreme anxiety for so long; eventually one obsession fades, and another might begin. People often cycle from theme to theme.

And OCD is very often not about excessive cleanliness or things having to be in a certain order- that is... popular myth, more than reality, in my experience. It's all what our compulsions are- people will develop compulsions (such as hand washing). One compulsion I had until almost a year ago was having to drive to work in a certain way, listening to the 'right' music, and driving the 'right' path, or I was afraid bad things would happen. Our obsessions and compulsions are limited only by the imagination.

Fears of possession, religious fears of screaming swear words at God, or in church; fears of committing an unforgivable sin- those are all pretty common, and as a child I frequently had those.

It's sometimes hard, when we're in the grip of OCD, to know the difference between what is real, and what is our OCD- we constantly doubt ourselves. Nothing that you said, is out of the ordinary for someone with OCD, so far as the worries you've expressed here. And it's very hard to convince people they're not what they fear- especially with the sexual fears, such as being gay, or a pedophile. Or transgender. But no, I've read in these forums, people who had thoughts of harming others, that did not sound OCD. And there's a difference. It horrifies us people with OCD. If someone is really disturbed, then they might be bothered about the thoughts, but not worried, I guess you could say. I've seen that in PF. And we used to have an AsPD forum- few of the people there were probably really psychopaths, but we did have them- and from everything I've read, a psychopath just simply doesn't have these worries. The only thing that keeps them in check, is the threat of the law, if they have a desire to harm or kill- and they're not shy about saying it thrills them- you know all this, from the things you've watched, and deep down I think you know you're not those things, or you wouldn't be posting here about them. Most AsPD people I've seen don't seem to want to change, or worry they might do something- if they worry, they just worry that one day, their desire for a thrill, will overcome their desire to avoid retribution. I'm not even sure 'worry' is the right word.

I understand. I've been told by several close people of mine that I do not fit in with the profile of a psychopath, yet for some reason I feel like my mind believes I do at times. I question everything to it's core, if when I help someone, I do it with a malicious intent.

I've been called manipulative before, so at times, when people ask me what I feel and think, even though I answer with what I know, something in my head tells me that I am probably saying that to cover myself up.

It's tough sometimes differentiating between what is something I truly want and something I don't. I've been straight my entire life, yet suddenly I look at any guy, friends, photo, anyone really and start to feel like I am getting aroused.

Even worse, I used to be attracted to my girlfriend, and that same attraction feels diminished. Something of bigger impact is that ever since I told my dad about by situation, he at start focused on the Psychopath deal. He said Psychopaths feel pleasure at these thoughts, and I swear that ever since he said that, I know have the same response I have with the whole hay situation with my violent thoughts, I start to feel like I am aroused. I've read about that too. I must say I am afraid. I am afraid of all of a sudden becoming a different person. Believing that these things DO indeed arouse me, and taking decisions upon them, such as not seeking help, etc.

MyPropeller wrote:I do not fit in with the profile of a psychopath

While I admit to scoring a little... interestingly... yes, we'll call it that... on a Dark Triad test (and I mean only mildly interestingly), generally every test of psychopathy or AsPD test I take, or NPD... I come back scoring very, very low. I dare say you would probably be the same. Mind you, you have to take such self-tests with a grain of salt, and take them when you're not overthinking things; ie from a stance of fear you might be one. I've taken such things, merely with an idle interest in the results, not out of fear I was in fact any of those things.

MyPropeller wrote:I've been called manipulative before

So have I, and I still wonder to this day, if it was justified.

Something you have to remember- and this helps to keep myself grounded in reality, and not chasing down personality rabbit-holes: A personality disorder, is just that. A disorder. Of personality. I'm no shrink, but it seems to me, that it's going to be that someone lacks something, or has more of something, than what's considered 'normal'. A personality disorder therefore, is going to be a defect in personality traits- traits we all have.

We are all capable of being malicious. We're all capable of being selfish. We're all capable of being manipulative. We're all lovers of ourselves. It's just being Human. We all have qualities, that if we glommed onto them, and looked at them under a magnifying glass, out of context, will match AsPD. Or NPD. Or BPD. or any other personality disorder. Because they are qualities all people have. You can't judge yourself to be a -path of any stripe, based on one or two things. We all have mean thoughts, we're all going to get manipulative, etc. It's the degree to which we're controlled by such things, unable to act better, that's going to be more important, than that time I talked someone into doing something, or acted shabby.

Someone who is really a psychopath wouldn't, I think, be doing this level of navel-gazing. If they did it's going to be rather casual, a curiosity, I think, judging from what I've seen. Oh look, I'm like this.... that's interesting...

Not something that's going to dredge up existential dread. And existential dread, is our (pwOCD) specialty.

[Possible Trigger Warnings]

Well, I've been undergoing through therapy. I still have no diagnosis whether if what I have is an obsessive compulsive disorder, or something different. Last week, I felt like I was getting better, yet going to therapy... I don't know why but as soon as I finished speaking to my psychologist, I felt so much anxiety. Like something bad was going to happen, like I was going to do something bad.

Intrusive thoughts reigned my mind, and it made it worse that my dad left me alone at the institution. I literally felt desperate for my dad to arrive, as if thinking that if he hadn't arrived sooner, I would've lost control.

Previously, my harm intrusive thoughts had lost their strength, along with their frequency. I really thought I was getting somewhere, yet, today, knowing that I'll see my girlfriend tomorrow, the thoughts won't vanish. I get all sorts of thoughts. I try distracting myself, but of course, I don't believe the videogames I play are of any help towards my case. I experience so much panic, but at the same time, I feel like I am not stressed. I don't know if I feel like I am not stressed just because the doctors said real psychopaths don't experience anxiety, and that somehow me monitoring my sensations and evaluating them actually neutralizes them.

I do not want to seek reassurance, as I've heard that comes around as a bad habit when OCD is involved. But I don't know what to do. I don't know if this is really OCD. The stress and anxiety is messing me up big time.

My best way to describe what I am going through, and I'll put a graphic example, is the following: I'm speaking with my girlfriend. I feel anxiety. Suddenly, she does or says something that irritates me. For some reason, I seem to focus a lot of the fact that I was irritated by something she did. Then, a thought suddenly pops up, what if I were to murder my girlfriend? Intrusive thoughts of, what if you one day plan hurting your girlfriend, and you actually do it?, come to my head, although I am severely scared of that happening (Of actually either seeing a series of images in my head of me committing such act).

My mind asks itself so much questions such as: Why do I think this stuff? Why do I question my emotions towards my girlfriend? Why do I link being irritated with my girlfriend with something as terrible as physically hurting her? Do I not know something about myself? As I've mentioned before, I've never been known to be a bad person. I know for a fact I've never enjoyed hurting someone else, but the thought of me just never doing so to cover myself up just puts me back in square one.

I truly don't know how to deal with this, how to break the chain of intrusive thoughts. I feel like something important to note is that I do firmly believe that thinking about something means that you will act upon it, even when I've heard that's not necessarily true, I do not know how to convince myself otherwise.

Reassurance is a very bad habit, yes. I'll direct your attention back to my first post, and how I deal with the intrusive thoughts. If you search my posts for intrusive harm thoughts I'm sure you'll see easily a half-dozen variations on that, if you think it will help you. I could go over the reasons you are unlikely to be a murderous psychopath, but the only one I'll reassure you slightly with is your own contradiction:

MyPropeller wrote:I don't know if I feel like I am not stressed just because the doctors said real psychopaths don't experience anxiety, and that somehow me monitoring my sensations and evaluating them actually neutralizes them.

MyPropeller wrote:The stress and anxiety is messing me up big time.

I'm not stressed/I'm stressed.

You're stressed.



That's a big OCD trap. You want to stop being anxious about the thoughts. But then, when you're not anxious about the thoughts- which was the goal!- then your brain switches to being anxious over not being anxious! Don't fall for that. Remember you're supposed to not be anxious. No, 'paths aren't anxious over it. But neither are Normie non-paths, because they know they're not going to act on such thoughts. And I've read everyone gets thoughts like that.

MyPropeller wrote:For some reason, I seem to focus a lot of the fact that I was irritated by something she did. Then, a thought suddenly pops up, what if I were to murder my girlfriend? Intrusive thoughts of, what if you one day plan hurting your girlfriend, and you actually do it?, come to my head, although I am severely scared of that happening (Of actually either seeing a series of images in my head of me committing such act).

If you're OCD, this is exactly what I'd expect. I've read that the overwhelming number of harm OCD intrusive thoughts are going to be family/love interests and pets. It's going to target the things you care about the most.

And get used to being irritated. Show my a couple that doesn't get irritated at each other, and I'll be mouthing the word 'liar' as soon as their back is turned. Maybe there are, but I don't know such perfect people in my circles.

MyPropeller wrote:I truly don't know how to deal with this, how to break the chain of intrusive thoughts.

Don't try.

Look, I hate to break this to you, but you'll probably always forever after have intrusive harm thoughts. Because, OCD. I still get them- I just know to not let them bother me. And the more adept you get at not letting them bother you, I think you'll find that the frequency and fear intensity of the thoughts will become less, much less. But disabuse yourself of the notion that they will magically disappear forever. No, they won't- every so often they'll pop back up, as if they're testing you for your response. But once you get the hang of not letting them bother you, it gets a lot easier. At least, it did for me.

It's one of those contradictory things. There's a STTOS (Star Trek Original Series) episode where Kirk and Spock are trapped in a force field that grows stronger the more they try to force their way through it. Or something to that effect. Breaking the OCD loop involves not trying to break the OCD loop. Once you stop stressing over trying not to think a thought... I find they get bored and go away... That's why I harp on 'not caring'. It's like you can't approach intrusive thoughts head on to make them stop. You have to show your brain that the thoughts aren't going to have an effect on you, and then things start to take care of themselves.

MyPropeller wrote:I feel like something important to note is that I do firmly believe that thinking about something means that you will act upon it

Another OCD trap. If we think it oh my God what monster you must be! No. No. Don't confuse a mere thought with an act. I am capable of starting with my partner, and laying waste to who knows how many of my neighbors before I'm stopped, and I can think of some good ways to do it. Humans are capable of incredibly terrible things. But it doesn't follow that it's going to happen. I think that in our minds, if we think it then we can do it then we want to do it. No. That's not at all true. Empirical evidence- show me the receipts. Show me where you've been a sadistic bastard, hurting and killing for the lulz. No? Then stop worrying that you're suddenly going to lose control- if you were going to, if you wanted to, you'd have done it already without so much talk. That was my turning point- I asked myself for the evidence. And there was none.

That's why you have to make yourself not worry about it, until you've done it. Because you've never done it- it's a safe bet. It don't feel like a safe bet, it feels as if without having this anxiety and stress over it, you'll lose all control and do it. but... no... just no. You have to ignore that worry and just trust that you'll continue to do what you've been doing- not harming your girlfriend.

I've been where you are. I know how you're worried of losing control- but you've had control your whole life. I presume every loved one around you hasn't been killed by you so far, so why do you think you want to start now?