Please, just what is this? (tocd possible trigger)

Lisa1989 wrote:Yes, I know what you mean.. I have almost "clear" moments from time to time..
I felt good after talking to my friend as well... but now.. I talked to a TG person and like all TG people they tell me that you can still fear being trans and be trans and that they also were a tomboy and then became more feminine but didn't like it...

Sigh, I'm so confused now... they asked me if i wanted to be a man to which i said no.. but I'm not sure I really don't want to be one. I think I'm fooling myself.

I would avoid conversations like that. Most people who do these things, think they are doing it to try and figure things out. But since they are filled with anxiety, their brain will actually pick out parts that confirm or continue their worst assumptions.

A banana and a grape are both sweet. They both have skins. They both ripen with time. But hold one in each hand. Are they really the same thing?

But Otter.. what am I supposed to do? When the TG guy asked me if I felt like a guy I said I didn't know but I hope to God I won't ever. i cannot answer questions based on reason right now because my OCD won't give me any answers. I don't know how to get rid of it.. I want to stay a woman and be able to find a partner eventually, but my mind tells me I won't unless I change my gender because I'm supposed to be a man.. I don't know if I feel like a woman anymore or if I ever felt like one?

My gender therapist said trans people weren't scared of being trans. And they want to be the opposite gender. and they want to be seen as that.

I want neither. But I think i HAVE to be. what the hell is wrong with me???

Let go over this step by step

Lisa1989 wrote:But Otter.. what am I supposed to do? When the TG guy asked me if I felt like a guy I said I didn't know but I hope to God I won't ever.

What does this TG guy know about OCD? Here is an example of how needless these conversations are. Some facts about me:

- my first kiss was with a boy. (I'm a man)
- in my early years (12 - 14), I had ideas of fantasies of having sexual relations with the same sex.

Now if I went to someone who is gay, do you think it is possible that he might have had the kind of experiences in his life? Very likely. Does that mean I should think I am gay, or even bi?

I am hetereosexual. Believe me, if I were Gay or Bi, I would have been that - I wouldn't care.

My point is, why would you try to figure out your gender by asking someone else about their gender (changes). This is like asking someone else if you like tomatoes? How do they know? You are UNIQUE. The complexities of your mind and body are your own. Picking up likenesses in other people as means of figuring out who you are, is the wrong way to go about it.

Lisa1989 wrote:i cannot answer questions based on reason right now because my OCD won't give me any answers.

THERE! Focus on that (OCD) - NOT your gender.

I want to stay a woman and be able to find a partner eventually, but my mind tells me I won't unless I change my gender because I'm supposed to be a man.. I don't know if I feel like a woman anymore or if I ever felt like one?

"want" = desire for. "but my mind tells me" = irrational thoughts. For people who eventually become TG their desires and thoughts are in agreement. I know it's not that simple for some TG people, but that's the general idea.

My gender therapist said trans people weren't scared of being trans. And they want to be the opposite gender. and they want to be seen as that.

Wise words. But you are equipped with DOUBT and IRRATIONAL thoughts.

I want neither. But I think i HAVE to be.

Again, see the difference between WANT (desire) and THINK (irrational thoughts), above.

what the hell is wrong with me???

I think you know what it is, and it doesn't have to do with being TG.

Otter.

Otter, your post made me laugh. So straight forward. haha... I know this isn't funny and tomorrow I'll cry again..But how does my desire NOT make me be something I fear? Just because I want to be a woman ( I think) doesn't mean I am? Just because I FEAR being trans doesn't mean I'm not???

My mind is filled with doubt and it feels so real. OCD latches onto my emotions I cannot use reason or logic anymore to explain something to myself that isn't logical.

Lisa1989 wrote:Otter, your post made me laugh. So straight forward. haha...

Sometimes I get into lecture mode when I am passionate and care about something, and want to be concise and direct, so nothing gets lost.

Lisa1989 wrote:But how does my desire NOT make me be something I fear? Just because I want to be a woman ( I think) doesn't mean I am? Just because I FEAR being trans doesn't mean I'm not???

This is doubt playing with logic. You are seeking 100% answers/assurances by bringing up the possibility that something which is self evident, could not really be true. This is the backbone of doubt.

But one can say that about ANYTHING. As I have said in threads before, we ALL live in a world of probability. Nothing is 100%. Not even reality. You say you want to be a woman, and you are in a woman's body (uh, I am right on that - correct? haha! otherwise this conversation has taken an interesting twist). So, if a woman wants to be a woman, and she is in a woman's body, what is the probability that she is a ... woman?

Ok, lets say you are in Las Vegas, and you are about to bet on one of two choices.

1. A woman, who wants to be a woman is in a woman's body = ...is really a woman.

2. A woman, who wants to be a woman is in a woman's body = ...is really a man.

Which one would you bet on? Everyone would bet on #1. Only someone with OCD would bet on #2. And they would probably lose BIG.

Probability.

My mind is filled with doubt and it feels so real. OCD latches onto my emotions I cannot use reason or logic anymore to explain something to myself that isn't logical.

I know. And I am sorry. I have been there, and with a million different "themes" and enough doubt to fill an ocean. I feel bad for everyone here, especially those who are young, and feel that their life is over.

It's not over. And you will be through with this one day. Sooner than later, I hope.

Otter.

That is the thing right there. I don't KNOW what I want to be anymore. I always thought I was a woman despite my tomboy phase... But i know for sure that I wouldn't have wanted to switch with a man, but now I'm not so sure anymore. And this doubt is new and came with the intrusive thought about 3 months ago. I can say I want to be a woman all the way I want. Maybe I'm just fooling myself and that's what I'm used to but there's something better and this anxiety will stop if I become a man... but I don't want to! If I ever felt like a woman I wanna feel like one again and stop questioning and just enjoy my skirts and dresses and long hair and make up like I used to!

jdd wrote:And here I thought you and miss artninja had things figured out snow since you've been gone a while. And I'm stuck.

Nah, not having such luck on my end.

But Otter, then what's to say that I have ocd on the basis of experiencing the same thing as other people who come here and display the same thinking as I do? I used to derive comfort from the fact that I could always relate more to people who asked if they have TOCD than to those who asked if they are trans, but if that's not a valid reason to be (at least somewhat) sure that I have ocd...

My anxiety is kind of always present at a low/medium level throughout the day, and when it subsides and I then get uncomfortable feelings, I get worried that it's real and that once my anxiety subsides, I'll know I'm trans. And also lately I'm getting an uncomfortable sensation in my genitals when the anxiety subsides or I'm reminded of them, which I know for sure I didn't have before this started, but it's so scary because it feels like the only way to get rid of that feeling is to cut them off.

Also, Lisa, about going and asking trans people, I've come to the conclusion that if you ask a transgender person, you'll be trans no matter what. I've seen people write that if you even so much as question your gender, you're at least somewhat trans. I've seen them write that you've always known you were trans, but also that you can only realize it when you're 90 years old. If you want to be the other gender yo're trans, but also if you avoid doing things that are characteristic for the other gender. I've even read how even if you walk or pull you're tshirt off a certain way you could be trans. So I figure literally anything can be interpreted as being trans. Not that this helps me feel less anxious, but it shows that it doesn;t mean much what they told you...

I know. I feel like they want to persuade us into believing we are actually Trans. It doesn't help I know... I could freak out regardless

Hi Lisa and co,

I feel similar too. Its like at first you DEFINITELY don't want to be a woman but later you say MAYBE and then later you say I DEFINITELY want to be a woman.

It just doesn't make sense. And yes I felt like transgender people are trying to convince you something your not. I feel they do it because it makes them feel better (btw I'm sure some trans people are fine). Its like I've developed and turned transgender. Its like now I'm asking myself do I want to be seen as a woman? And its like YES. But before it was NO. I also recommend that the COGIATI test is a complete waste of time as it was, most likely, made by someone who has no idea about OCD.

My answers for the COGIATI change every minute of the day, for example 6 months ago I would have said "I do NOT want to be treated as a woman" but now I would say "YES I want to be treated like a woman, because I am a woman".

See how ridiculous? I'm still not 100% sure if I'm not trans. What concerns me most is that I no longer have anxiety relating to the transgender feelings.


I just hope its OCD.

That kind of test only means something when you aren't going to answer with obsessive thinking. AND not taking it multiple times repeatedly like that.

The COGIATI is fine in general but don't take it while obsessing. I took it twice and never scored trans but feminine.