Omnipotence and Lying

Ok.........i will try and keep this short.
Which is hard to do, when you are in love with everything that comes out of your own mouth!

Ok here is another place where we are different

Yes i am aware.......you have a constant image of self-worth..........i don't.
You don't have to explain to me what self-worth is...........I get it. It's just, i need to always remind myself what it is, and where it comes from..........you do that, without really even thinking about it.

Do you feel you love yourself? All parts of you......the good and the bad? I would think if you had no plan, then you would be judging yourself in up and down fashion. I am sometimes good and sometimes bad. LOL See...... i think I am starting to understand you!

Then also........understand, sometimes i love myself. Sometimes i don't.


Sometimes i love all parts of myself........sometimes i don't.

I don't know. Did you??? You think your subconscious is ever saying FU to your parents????

My subconscious.....is saying FU, to itself. For failing to protect itself...........

My subconscious......doesn't want to face the fact, that anything is possible. It wants to control what is or isn't possible.

Basically........my subconscious, operates like your CONSCIOUS! It believes in fairytales too! LOL





More importantly..........to be accurate. There are layers..........you aren't one aspect of your mind, nor is there only one aspect of any aspect.....
Many layers to both conscious and subconscious thought...........you only "feel" like you are you, when you feel like you are you.


So yes, it is fine you talk about all your levels and how you see things........but that's just your story.
It's how you understand the world..........because you, insist it can be understood.
And you insist, it is you doing the understanding..........from the middle? the real you! LOL



Very important.........


So yes...my mind, is saying FU to my parents......but also to itself and also to the world.......

Remember, my mind didn't know it had parents......all it knew, was it was not liking some things, and liking some others..........and it began, to search (like you with your story) for reasons why......

The reason it settled on, was that some parts of itself are bad and others are good.........and when it controls those parts, it can control everything............
When you are 2 or 1 or a baby..........you are the universe. Just as you are now............but like you were talking about conditioning..........you are taught, that you aren't.


Both are right...and both are wrong.

See and I think in a way we are all omnipotent over our OWN lives....but as I said above.....we can never control someone else

Yes.....because to you, it is always a fact there are other people. And facts, are written by god? LOL

You were conditioned to choose your parents perspective and thoughts about you. Children have no control over adults. No physical power. To survive they can ONLY control their thoughts. So they do

Ah.........see you do get.


But it's not just children..............you have no control either!

So you control your thoughts too.........you tell yourself, stories.........where YOU choose things, based on levels and real and false selfs and facts...........but you tell yourself this story, assuming the story you built this story out of..........the story of YOU, is a fact.............

Do you see?

You are the child........still fearing it is out of control........just like me. But you are more firmly entrenched in ONE consistent version of events, it's easier to "lie" to yourself. To fool yourself.....


I tell 2 stories......one where i am good and when where i am bad. So i have to compare them, always compare them.........
You tell one story........


But in reality.........we're just telling many many stories.


A human being, is a system...........a system with many parts. Saying "you" are this one, or that one.......is silly.
But we do it..........because we believe one story, over another.


This is duality..........the first story, is "I" and the second that naturally follows is "you".
Or "inside" and what naturally follows "outside"..............where you become you, and you are what is inside. And then what isn't you, is outside........


Then, you tell more stories......about the you that is inside and the outside that is outside.............

Over and over they are taught to believe a different perspective about themselves.....not their perspective but their parents. Brainwashing like I described above......someone needs physical power to do that to anyone.

Yes...but what has physical power over you?


Gravity? Time? Space?


More importantly..........what has physical power, over "you".........the middle? The real you?

Perhaps the middle you....is brainwashing the other YOUs!



But hey, "you" would know! Wouldn't "you"?

LOL



Maybe you are the bad you....brainwashed to believe it is the middle you?! By the good you?


LOL

But when its conditioned.....then they just take over themselves. When they are adults and actually DO have the power to choose different thoughts and perspectives

Do they? But that is only if they have the ability to based on their conditioning? Or if they have the "luck" to run into another perspective...........and the intelligence, to understand it........

Chosing different self talk and following it as if it were true. Yes it feels fake.....but like coming home from war......eventually it feels right.

Yes, self talk.


But if you are gonna take the time, to brainwash yourself..........why not aim a little higher?

Why not be the queen of england? LOL



I know what you are saying..........LOL.................but you are saying, makes no sense.

If i grant that my thoughts and feelings, are able to be conditioned out of me........(which they are)......then why must i grant, that i need to condition any thoughts or feelings, out of me? The desire to get rid of these "bad" thoughts and feelings........is itself, a thought and feeling.

So you see.........if you have to brainwash yourself..........why not brainwash yourself, into believing you don't need brainwashing?
If you have to condition yourself..........why not condition yourself, to not need conditioning.


Because.........that way, you will always be ok........but it won't matter, because you don't need to be ok or not ok..........you can be both.



What you are saying to yourself.........here, with all of this..................


Is where we began: "i am the creator"............but you are creating a world, where you limit yourself.
If you are the creator..........then why are you creating limits?


The limits you are creating.........by your beliefs..........they will catch upto you. You will always be on guard against them, running from them..........and you will think, that that has to be the way it is.
Because the limit you impose hardest of all...........is that things have to be a certain way. These "facts"........ but they are not facts. They are limits, created by your own understanding.......

But I think that what you believe is a lie.......is actually what you have been conditioned to believe

Yes.....but i am not me.

It is not a fact..........i am me.

It is not a fact.........lies are always lies. And belief is more important when it is more accurate......

It's not a fact..........i need to change.


It is neither facts..........that i am not me.

That lies are not always lies.........etc. etc.



What i believe, i can change. Always........in a moment. What i believe, allows me to not even need to be right about my ability to change, always in a moment.
I don't need to change........i also, don't need not to change. I have no limits.........when i do not wish to have any.


Do you see the difference?



We are, like all others............both delusional. LOL


But my delusion.........is aware of itself, as a delusion.


Your delusion, thinks it is reality..........

Maybe you believe you are unworthy

Yes yes i do.
And i don't.............


There is no maybe about it...........people with PDs think they are unworthy. LOL

....no rules to break that make you feel bad about yourself......so you can't even punish yourself. Good is good and bad is good, so whats bad? The only place left where a real feeling exists or any sort of energy for survival is that wanting to feel worthy thing.......that want for love.

This is all true..............but, it takes the position, that you do over and over..........that there is some "Real" feeling.

That other feelings, are not real. Or less real.


And this again........is the problem with the entire logic of your world.



I keep saying.........if things are Real, then things are fake. And if things are important than things are unimportant.
And if things are bad........then things are good..........but if things are good, then things are bad.......
So no matter where you go..........you will always see good things and bad things. Always have important things and unimportant things.........and be searching for real things, and casting aside fake things........

But it is you deciding........what is real, what is fake. What is good what is bad........why it matters, why you need it..........why you don't.


You could decide, everything is real. Everything has value. Everything is important. When you want to......

And when you don't want to..........you could decide, nothing is real. nothing has value....nothing is important.


You would be free........to do as you wish. To see as you wish, to hear as you wish........and to feel as you wish.
WHich you are.......but fail to realise it.


I realise this all the time..........but because of my disorder, it easily slips away.
I realise this all the time.......but because of my disorder, because i like pain and destruction and being a masochist.......i let it slip away! LOL


You seem to be so close........because you grant the basic principles..........you agree with me, about essentially everything...........except FACTUAL FACTS.

But........THE GREATEST MINDS.........who deal in fact. Say, it is a FACT.......there are no facts.
Only observations..........


Why can't you believe it is a fact, that there are no absolute facts?

This is "god" handing you the keys to the kingdom......but you are here, saying it is a fact god doesn't hand out keys to people. People like you?

You are the one.........who also sees themselves as unworthy.

You KNOW you are worthy to pick your feelings......but you cannot pick to feel worthy, that you can also pick your facts.
That your feelings, are your facts.........

Who I am and what I do are always 2 different things

Yes they are.
Atleast........... LOL


Who you are might be..........1,000,000,000 different things. (atoms)




So the "real" you..........


Then........technically........i could just say, the real me is the good part of me? And go out and be as nasty as i want........and say "that is BPD" not the real me. Cause i don't have a middle remember.....so instead of building one? Why not just not build one.......and learn to be ok with the "real" me..........
The bad me........the bPD me....could be a reference. The good me, is what i strive for......


That would work too.............LOL


That plan is good no? It would be the same as you NONs.......i could go around hurting people, and tell myself that it's not the real me.

To you this is evidence that people aren't living their values

No to me.......it is evidence, people aren't aware of their values. They take for granted, they know who they are.
They are totally unaware of the toll their actions have on others......and come here, and get mad at us for being unaware!

I just love the irony.

But I don't know......I don't feel I have any right to judge them, because I am not in a position to judge them

I don't have that problem.

I certainly agree, i have no RIGHT to judge them. But i don't need to have the RIGHT to judge them.
And the problem is......no one judges them.......so they go about hurting people. In a way, they need to be stopped. As they refuse, to stop themselves.

Of course they feel guilty..........thats why they get so angry at us. They fear they are like us....and they should, they are.

I believe everyone has a purpose. And this purpose I think comes from a place where they have a special talent

Like lying?

Now lets say all I do is provide you with your dessert at work while you are making the millions. And lets also say you give millions to charity every year. All I gave is a cupcake. Am I less worthy then you? I am supporting you at lunch.....givin you a little happiness. And you are supporting me by buying my cupcakes. Lets say I am raising 3 kids and one will grow up to be the guy who solves world hunger. My cupcake money makes his education possible. Well my cupcake just solved world hunger. Or at least had a part in it, so what appears on the surface to be people not caring about others is not always what it appears to be. The cupcake lady loves her kid in this example. The money guy loves his charity. They do what they love and others benefit. No one person can solve every problem in the world. But one person can love those immediately around them and in doing so loves branches out

I agree.


Now if you could just shake your addiction to facts........you would see how the above reasoning you just gave, applies to everything.

Things branch out.........ideas, concepts...facts.........the universe.........all branch out. None are more or less real.
If you can see how your cupcake solves world hunger........then see how, 2+2 can equal things other than 4.

Creating feels right for me.

Yes, but if you create....you are also destroying.

So destroying feels right for you aswell.

The Good and bad sides are not the self. They are tools/references. The work is in the middle, the real self is in the middle

Why is the real self-not the reference?
Is that not a tool?

ANd if it is.....then the hammer, is more important than the screw driver?
Oh, no...the house is want is important.....what you are building.
But without the tools, no house......but without the house, no need for tools......

I already said its all me and its all real. For example, we can probably agreed that water is 2 hydrogen & 1 oxygen molecule. Its still water

Yes you said it is all you...........but you said parts of it, were more real. That the individual parts, were less important than what they create.....

We can agree that those molecules make water......but are we agreeing, that those molecules are less important than water?



See..you seem to be saying 2 things.

On the one hand, there is some real you............

But on the other, all parts of you are the real you..........


So which is it?


And if it is both...........if all parts of you are real and unreal..........then why make the distinction? Why use the world "real" or "true"


You are the one.....always saying "real" and "true"..........

Now you are saying, everything is "real" and "true"......


So inside you? All things are real and true..........

Why not in the universe?

Why are only facts real and true?

I don't expect you to agree with me because you already said your personal truth was that factual truth doesn't exist. That feels good to you and works for you. I don't want to change your mind.
I can only explain myself in those terms because I believe in it

Yes.


But to me............it's like, you are telling me you believe in the Easter Bunny.....but not Santa Claus.

And i am trying to figure out, how that is possible.



I just don't get why you make the distinction. Why some things are real, but others aren't......but the things that aren't real, are real.....but only inside of you......outside of you, things that aren't real....aren't real. They can never be both real and unreal. Whereas, you can.......

I think I addressed this also before with the analogy about the parent and the rebellion. No I don't like this stuff except on TV and even then only if it has a happy ending

You don't like drama?


You are married......and seemingly practically obsessed with another man. A narc.

Not to get personal.....but we've talked about my PSYCHE quite a bit........


Maybe the real you, doesn't like drama! But some part of you must! LOL

A prison, is not a prison until it is built............maybe these bricks, are part of the prison you are building........the one, where you say that facts are facts..........and then will come a time, when you have to face facts, that you are alone. Everyone is dead, you are old.....you are grey........perhaps some bad things happend to people around you, and they never got to be old or grey.....you will have your facts.
It will be a fact, that old is bad. Gray is bad........that people dead is bad......that the people who died, missed out on climbing so high.........because it will be a fact, that climbing is important.....and your solid foundation, will tell you.....facts are facts.
You won't have room.....to change you mind. Your mind is real........your mind is truth and changing reality and truth makes no sense.


What can I say?

Well, just don't be so stubborn..........maybe reality, is just a reference? Maybe facts are too?

Can you not say, maybe i am right?

What would worry you about building? Does something seem scarey to you about it?

Yes....that i may attach to the idea, that i NEED what i've built....because it is REAL.

Mostly....love. But also, a career.....or a body........Any ideal. Perhaps just the image in my head.....





My brother killed himself...........because he lost his "true" love.

Had he had the ability.......to think of her just as a "love"..........and not "the love".........he'd probably of not killed himself.


Now, more "true"..........yesterday, may not of been a very important day........if some nuts, didn't think they knew the one "true" path........


This is what i fear for you.........that you will, find yourself somewhere......and believe it to be "true"........and you won't let yourself, let it go.
You i am sure....find yourself, trying hard..........to understand the "true" things from the "untrue" ones.....that process in itself, can be hard.

Needlessly hard.

I really like you telling me about yourself. Its fascinating.

Ha...Now i see why you have Narcs. swarming all over you!

So you will control others, by being uncontrolling.........and then you will INFLICT your unconditional love on them.

Was this not the best sentence ever?

Like that is funny!

Anyways....glad you enjoyed it.

Have not met a man yet who could recreate anything here or create something completely new

There you go with your COMPLETELY new REAL REALITYness....

There is nothing that is ever completely new. (also there is....but for my purpose)

I explained this....things aren't COMPLETE! So if your world view, rests on the idea that you need someone to come give you something COMPLETELY anything.....then rest easy.
LOL


But......then i go back to my Easter Bunny quote.......

PRove to me, the Easter Bunny ain't real........completely. Prove it completely!


And if you can't......be honest.........would you not think i was insane, or retarded.....if i still believed in the easter bunny?

For man to create anything.... man has to use whats already here

Well, for you to know that....you have to know what "here" is.......and then you have to know, what "here" isn't.......then your argument will be, that things have to come from "somewhere".......and if they did not come from "here" then you know they came from somewhere else......

So you're gonna need someone, to show you something.......while showing you, everywhere else at the sametime.....and you need to grant, that that here is separate from everywhere else.......

It's really insane.........it's kind of like people who think we live in the matrix! And there are a few.......well, you need something from outside the matrix to prove to them we don't........cause everything inside, is THE MATRIX!

So you see.....you can't prove them wrong. You can only KNOW they are LOL

Man made things are man made. The only man made things that are worth a hill of beans to me....are their true selves

but it's all their true selves? isn't it?

According to you.....depending at what point in the conversation you believe that? LOL


So all man made things....are part of their true selves.....like the water, like the molecules that make up water....it's all still "them".......

You don't have to believe what I believe. Put your faith in man. And its perfectly findwith me if you tell me I can't be sure of the laws of the universe

But you are sure..........you say you are sure FACTS are facts.

You take that part of the universe....and say I AM SURE about it.



See.....you are not consistent in your beliefs......but you believe that you are. it is fascinating to me too!

all it means to me is that in another 80-90 yrs someone will come along and prove you wrong

Well they said that to Darwin......and it's been quite awhile.

I don't trust men ....who were created by something.......to know more then the thing that created them

But you trust men.....*yourself.....to know what MORE is. And why MORE is MORE than LESS.

Does my chicken enchilada casserole know more then I do about making chicken enchilada casserole? No and it never will

LOL

Now that rivals my sentence.........for funny.

NO! AND IT NEVER WILL!............makes it sound like it is a concern of yours! or you have some personal animosity towards your casserole......

it knows what it is

???????????????


You wanna re-think that........your dinner, knows what it is?

but it doesnt know the tools I used to make it....or the precise way you combine or mix things, it doesn't know the oven temp or the the measurements of the ingrediants. LOL And yes I know a casserole knows nothing....but you get what I am saying I think.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


I was getting worried for a moment.......

Oh and the chicken enchilada casserole, which is very tasty by the way, you like jalapenos

yes yes i do.


Though, they know nothing.

Its not my truth, so how can I be hurt by it? Its not my torment so how can it be my prison?

Because.....you think it is a FACT that pain is bad. You think it is a FACT that people suffer.

And in your world, facts are not to be questioned. They come from god.

I have recently suffered a loss

Sorry........(though this is half fake empathy)........((only half though!))



I'm glad i helped (because it makes me feel special)........and i'm glad you have a positive attitude about it. (cause that's good)

then he'd be controlling and no one would love him of their own free will. We would all be robots. Worshipping the creator by force. Loving and being good by force. Why would anyone want that? I don't want someone to love me because they HAVE to. I want someone to love me because they WANT to. Thats why the bad exists.......because without it.....there is no other choice.

Free will?

But he built you? And everyone else? And how the first person he built....treated the second person he built......influenced the way the 4th treated the 5th............all the way upto right here.

But he built the first person? So.....he built into that person, the ability/potential.....for everything that does happen.


It would be like, giving a monkey a gun........and saying free will, is why my monkey shot my neighbour.
Sounds laughable................but you can't hand a monkey a gun. Just like, you couldn't just hand out FREE WILL.......where before there was none.

Monkeys don't know how to use guns..............and the first person, the one he built....wouldn't of known how to use free will.
And that first person..........influenced, everyone after him. And so on and so on..........no free will anywhere, causes there to be no free will everywhere..........

If had a box ( my creation) and put two smaller boxes within the larger box, and separate the two smaller boxes from each other within the larger box. I have 2 separate boxes within a box. If I held up one of those boxes with one hand I would do it well. If I try to pick them both up with the same hand I do it less well

What the hell does this have to do with physics? LOL

But I can see and do this and its what I experience

Yes....but your experience, is just your thoughts. That is my argument.......what you experience, as fact! is just your thoughts!
Much like your box????? (btw, maybe i'd like to experience your magical box)


So your reason.....for why this is a fact? Is that you experience it?

But you experience FACTS! So everything you encounter, must be infact! an experience! Which would, then make it FACT!


You knock on wood...it feels solid.....it's not a FACT that it is solid. it is your experience, telling you this.......the wood, is particles, zooming around......the moment you experience the wood, it is infact solid.....but only, in your mind....which can analyse data on a very small scale, but not a small enough one.....to expierence the wood as anything but solid.

Like your crazy box story........nothing about it is a fact. (your facts) The only fact, is that you see the experience as being some sort of fact.
Like the wood.........



But you don't care about physics......just facts!

You are a funny breed.......you believe in a man in the sky, and facts.......but not science......just facts, and a man in the sky!

You believe in your own experience................but how do you know what you experience? Senses can be tricked......influenced..........


Perhaps why you cling so rigidly to facts..........facts that, you don't need science to prove.



There is a Schism......

Some things are facts, some aren't......and you get to decide. In your world.........through experience......and you've decided, long ago...that experience is a fact.
But in your world.......you don't get to decide, how you decide. How you decide.....is a gift from god......and how you merge the two, is well..........a kind of insanity.
You know experience is a fact......but you don't for sure know why. But you are sure....that it is a fact.
You don't know why experience is a fact.....other than, your experience of facts.......facts don't change, they just either are facts or aren't.
Much like your self.......you don't change........you just are good/bad/whatever.......you exist, and facts exist.......because you experience it. You need the two, because they reinforce eachother......it would "kill" you, if there were no facts......because there might be no "you"......and you are a gift from god? Or something important.........


It is.....well, i'm sure people in 100 years people will be studying this............ trying to get in the heads of people like you.........like we try and do now with past generations, when people believed in goblins and witches...400 years ago.
It was a fact.....they experienced goblins and witches!

I have no worth to him. If that is so ….why this guy stay around? Why would he even want to be with someone who he doesn't respect and has no value to him? It makes no sense………

Nice boobs?

You don't have absolutes

Yes....that is why, it isn't a mystery to me how or when the universe was formed......in the sense, that.....it's not a problem for me to think of "well there had to be something there before"......or"someone had to make it"...........or " well, it had to come from somewhere"

If you have absolutes........then, you might aswell have their opposites........Fairytales.......you will need them, to give life to the absolutes.

actually, it solves all paradoxes

You wrote LOL......but i don't think you understand the genius behind what i am saying.....


Paradoxes....rely on absolutes.


both of the following are true:


the following sentence is true
the previous sentence is false


For that to be a mindf____CK.....you have to grant, they are both absolutely true.


This is why there are paradoxes......paradoxes, are not absolute. Nor are, the situations that create them.......

what would you want to control about it?

about "inner peace"? the ebb and flow! Want some fun too!

Why do you enjoy them???

They end.


And when i'm in them........i'm too terrified, to think that i am terrified.....I am JUST terrified.

Why does the intensity of feeling have to be so strong do you think???

Well......i guess i need to "trust" it. Otherwise, it is vague.......and concerning.

Someone says "hey" (with no emotion)......(someone i care about)......it's almost puzzling...........but they say "HI!!!!!!" then i enjoy it.

Of if they say "###$ YOU!"..........then i know what is going on. So it isn't as bad.......as some middle response......



So in the bedroom........i think i even less enjoy, "wondering" there.........i want to blow her away, or not care at all how she feels and just worry about me.......


Also.....well, i am intense. LOL Should see me play videogames with my friends.......(back when i had videogames or friends!)

People (some people) would literally be scared.........i'd yell and scream and bounce up and down, and swear....swear so much....LOL.........only if i was comfy with who was around, for the most part....(or didn't care)..........but yeah.......it was quite a show. People LOVED to beat me, cause i made them FEEL like it mattered..........also, i was generally the best at every game....(because i was insane and had to be!)..........but yeah......

Do you feel in any way that you are limiting yourself here when you say this? I mean what if achieving a goal brings such a change to your life that it brings on the thought that you might like to achieve something else? What if one goal leads to more and other things. What if success leads you to want more success ? More goals more of whatever ……..would that be boring?

If i realised, that success didn't matter..........like say, i achieve 50% of my goals....and i go "i still feel the same"...........i'm not dumb enough, to think a second boat is gonna "do it" for me.....

Now.......charity -wise.....helping more kids, would be something........but, i'm not sure, if i have the empathy for that to drive me..........like, maybe i should go to hospitals and befriend sick kids or something! So i want to care about them.......

Really..........maybe i should?



But essentially............I don't care ENOUGH. Like the NONS who are reading this.......who are gonna buy a new pair of shoes or go to the nice restaurant instead of the regular one........
they don't care ENOUGH about aids orphans or war widows......to send them a cheque or donate to the red cross instead. They can't equate...how their new shoes, means someone isn't getting aids medicine this month.......has anything to do with them, or their choices.
Perhaps they cared enough....last year, and that was enough. you know?

destruction
anger
power
regret
sorrow
heroism
revenge
punishment

That's living?

LOL

Really.........if i didn't feel those things......what would i feel? I'd feel what i feel now........and what i feel now, i generally always feel..........*now..........(after OCD go bye bye and i realised i have HPD/BPD).........calm, and happy. Sometimes sad and lonely.....but just a measure of simple feelings..........

I don't really.......feel a lot of emotions? I don't know. Never thought about it....whether i have more or less emotions......just that i have stronger ones. Or absent ones.....



I do want to control someone.....and imagine, if i was all those things to them.......they'd be pretty much MINE! LOL
But also....i want to control, those emotions? I like them.....but they only seem to occur, in negative contexts that lead to a loss of control.............(i get mad, i do dumb stuff).....(I get into a fight....i get hurt, or someone else does)..........it doesn't work.

So I think it would be important for you to know why you wanted or needed to feel these things……

Yes.............everything is about US.

(PDs i mean........everyone, but PDs more obviously)



I need to.......or else i'll get bored.

And feeling them, in a "normal" way.........leads to a loss of control.

So the dramatic, is easier to control.........by knowing what will happen.


Dump my gf? I know she'll cry and i'll miss her...........Ask her to marry me? I know she'll be thrilled and tell me she loves me..............
Inbetween stuff? I don't know.............

So i lie, and make things dramatic..........or i probe.........and wait for a spot, to make something happen.
Some emotion............

In the meantime.........i just feel steady.........steady good, or steady bad........(steady, by way of feeling good and bad in rapid cycles...so rapid, it's steady.....it's not at all steady....if you were me, you'd wonder what the hell was going on!!!!)

But yeah.........my steady.



Perhaps that is it..........i just feel so much ups and downs, for a lifetime............i need bigger ups and downs, to notice them.

So i lie............to myself, or to others..............lie about what i want, to myself...........lie to others, about what i need..........


I don't consider it lying...........because it is nec.


What i need and want............is beyond the realm of most people.


I want........violence. Terror.......pain............and i want, love and softness and all that too..........but i want it, all in one night! Hell........let me call you a whore and scream i hate you......then kiss you and tell you you're cute.......and lets be ok with that.......LOL
Lets not have it...be weird!

You know?




There's this, episode of a show where the main character...... where he and this girl go murder people..........reason isn't important. *they are good guys somehow LOL.............anyways,


I just sit there thinking..........i want to find someone who would murder with me. Or for me.....of course do i?
Not really.........but i want that emotion.........of a trust. Coupled with fear? Or uniqueness....how many couples murder together?

so it's not that i live in fantasy land.......and think that that would really work out........and want to do it.........that's insane. For about 300000000 million reasons........most of which, i'd have to kill her so she couldn't rat me out!
Not letting someone hold a murder rap over me....especially not, a murderer!


But yeah............my point is......


I want extrteme emotions. And i want them, in odd situations.....


Like, PDA..........i love that. Do i like other people's? Hell no..........but mine is ok!


Or......i'd like to yell at my gf, infront of people. Just to show, that we had some special relationship......but it would aslo, be fun....making them feel awkward.
Or, i'd like my gf....to act like a total bi))Tch infront of people......maybe slap me and call me a loser......and than have me be all cool about it, and smile.......just to show them, that i can react however i want.......and so can she, that we have some great relationship........


Essentially I want to act however i want.......whenever i want........wherever i want......
And i'm looking for the same.......but with me, controlling them somehow.

HA HA HA HA


I want to live in magic land, in a gumdrop house on lollypop lane.........LOL



See....i want to just run amok..........but not suffer any of the consequences of running amok.....but get all the benefits....even if the benefits, would be seen as consequences by some......

Essentially..........did i mention, i want total control? Not over people.........no, over all things......and i want, to not realise i have it......but to somehow wield it.


Then i'd get bored.......a few too many dances on the moon, and trips around the sun.....and i'd be here, talking about this stuff with you. LOL



What are we talking about?


Yeah.........emotions..........little adventures. Deep emotions, deeper adventures........deeper adventures are more dangerous and you can get lost......
But they are still adventures!


I am afraid of losing control............

Killing someone. Loving someone..........being addicted to someone...........rejecting someone...........killing myself.........

ANd i am afraid..........i am getting sick, of controlling myself. All the time.


What will i be like, if i had achieved my goals?


If i had all the money i wanted, had the body i wanted.....had the job and all the trappings i wanted.......and had access, to whatever i wanted..............
I don't know.

And i can't control the unknown..........so i speculate. LOL And a lot of the time that is enough for me........cause i don't want those things anyways.
I just want them.........to FEEL..........



I think.....i just like to sit in a place, and wish i was somewhere else...........then i go to that place, and wish i was back in the place i just was..........i look at the past so fondly.
I hated it there..........HATED it..........but i look back and think, of it fondly.




This has become, a somewhat incoherent rant...and with good reason............we're talking about my emotions.......my emotions, are incoherent.
It wouldn't make sense....if they weren't..............as i have BPD.

I want things....then i don't. Then i want them again. Then i don't.

All these things........none of them, are the real me. Really want this, and don't really want that......no, that's just an illusion.
I really want control..........so i can have both this and that...........and not lose one or the other.

create- child is created
joy-this is usually a good thing
powerlessness- they are helpless
hope - they need to be taken care of
pleasure- they want to feel they are good
evil-what if they were given the idea they weren't good or were treated very badly. this was the thing that did not fit in the top, why would anyone treat a helpless child badly?

Forgive me.....I don't follow.

All your feelings could be an analogy of someones life….only you have to see them in reverse. Because the whoe thing I see as a form of rebellion

Explain.

Rebellion?

What part did you love most? The making her cry or making her feel better???

At the time.......making her feel better. 100000 to 1.

But was i honest at the time? Did i feel too ashamed/guilty........to enjoy it.....did the enjoyment, not last as long.....cause i was so afraid to like it? I cannot say.


I want to help people, more than hurt them. But i want to hurt them.

About the rolling around in pain thing……
Why you think you liked it?????

It was an experience, i knew i was not going to try and repeat.

It was an odd experience.........rarely (hopefully) are people in that much pain, without anticipation of it.


I wanted to "test" myself........i wondered, if other people would be more or hurt......and i felt weak, for being so hurt.
I liked feeling weak........(i hated it) but i liked the gross way i felt........

The reality of the glass, aned the amount of water and air in it never changes

That is your perception of the reality of the glass.

It is always changing...........the amount of water in the glass, is evaporating.......gravity, in very tiny ways...is crushing the glass down........and heat, is causing it to expand or contract.....depending on the temperature of the water........

This is a factual truth

But clearly, it is not.

The truth here....is that you do not understand reality.........only your own understanding of reality.

Do you want to trust her? And if so why don't you????

yes...and no. If she is worthy of trust.......


Why don't I?


I'm HPD/BPD......................

Oh my God!!!

I was laughing out loud reading this!!! Especially when I got to your reply about the enchilada casserole LOL!!

I KNEW you were gonna say that about the casserole!!! But the jalapeno! HA!
That was a @@@@surprise@@@!!!!!!


Now I need to relive the whole thing over again.....
all the funny parts!!!

Arther Bach " Isn't FUN the BEST thing to have??"

Twistedmister wrote:Ok.........i will try and keep this short.
Which is hard to do, when you are in love with everything that comes out of your own mouth!




Yes...but what has physical power over you?


Gravity? Time? Space?


More importantly..........what has physical power, over "you".........the middle? The real you?

Perhaps the middle you....is brainwashing the other YOUs!



But hey, "you" would know! Wouldn't "you"?

LOL



Yes, self talk.


But if you are gonna take the time, to brainwash yourself..........why not aim a little higher?

Why not be the queen of england? LOL




We are, like all others............both delusional. LOL


But my delusion.........is aware of itself, as a delusion.


Your delusion, thinks it is reality..........




You don't like drama?


You are married......and seemingly practically obsessed with another man. A narc.

Not to get personal.....but we've talked about my PSYCHE quite a bit........


Maybe the real you, doesn't like drama! But some part of you must! LOL

I really like you telling me about yourself. Its fascinating.

Ha...Now i see why you have Narcs. swarming all over you!

So you will control others, by being uncontrolling.........and then you will INFLICT your unconditional love on them.

Was this not the best sentence ever?

Like that is funny!

Anyways....glad you enjoyed it.

Does my chicken enchilada casserole know more then I do about making chicken enchilada casserole? No and it never will

LOL

Now that rivals my sentence.........for funny.

NO! AND IT NEVER WILL!............makes it sound like it is a concern of yours! or you have some personal animosity towards your casserole......

it knows what it is

???????????????


You wanna re-think that........your dinner, knows what it is?

but it doesnt know the tools I used to make it....or the precise way you combine or mix things, it doesn't know the oven temp or the the measurements of the ingrediants. LOL And yes I know a casserole knows nothing....but you get what I am saying I think.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


I was getting worried for a moment.......

Oh and the chicken enchilada casserole, which is very tasty by the way, you like jalapenos

yes yes i do.


Though, they know nothing.

I have recently suffered a loss

Sorry........(though this is half fake empathy)........((only half though!))




But you don't care about physics......just facts!


You are a funny breed.......you believe in a man in the sky, and facts.......but not science......just facts, and a man in the sky!

PRove to me, the Easter Bunny ain't real........completely. Prove it completely!


And if you can't......be honest.........would you not think i was insane, or retarded.....if i still believed in the easter bunny?

I want to live in magic land, in a gumdrop house on lollypop lane.........LOL


You wrote LOL......but i don't think you understand the genius behind what i am saying.....

destruction
anger
power
regret
sorrow
heroism
revenge
punishment

That's living?

LOL


There's this, episode of a show where the main character...... where he and this girl go murder people..........reason isn't important. *they are good guys somehow LOL.............anyways,



Then i'd get bored.......a few too many dances on the moon, and trips around the sun.....and i'd be here, talking about this stuff with you. LOL



What are we talking about?

LOL I think I wet myself !

Oh my god........ok I will answer soon

Due To Circumstances Beyond My Control I am Master of My Fate and Captain of My Soul

I like this....though it makes me want to argue! LOL




This was funny when i re- read it..........

destruction
anger
power
regret
sorrow
heroism
revenge
punishment




That's living?

That is pretty fuc)ked up? Isn't it......


Anyways.......it's scary how much, that wasn't a joke.

ThisWayUp - Thanks for your “substantial” reply.

I had good therapy (effective for me) a few years ago.
I think I kept describing different trees without seeing the wood clearly and every week and she kept saying the same thing to me, which I would summarise as
" Accept both sides of you; the good and bad, without judgement as they are both part of you and fulfil different needs. Love yourself and treat yourself well. "
Eventually it seemed to sink in and I seemed to "get it" and the accompanying increase in inner confidence (as opposed to confidence in an abilitiy or the self-confident front I could have in the right mood with a drink in my hand and full make-up!).
Unfortunately some of the effects seem to have worn off or I have lost some of my ability to feel "centered" over time - and a bit of a mini crisis in my life triggered a big crisis and confusion in my head. Possibly sort of grateful now that I have a bit of distance that it has motivated me to take steps to try to become more active in seeking solutions and becoming more self reliant.

Left part of the way through reading your post to focus on / write something to myself about "that child" who seemingly needs to be heard again right now. How did you know? Read another post? Whatever – cool. (Used to think that "inner child" stuff was a bit lame - but it seems it really is relevant and can help healing – and I am open to trying pretty much anything that does not involve huge amounts of cash or sacrificing chickens or too many heavy duty drugs – prescribed or otherwise.)
I am not averse to the idea of a Higher Power and at times have even felt connected – but a problem of mine is consistency – sooner or later I drift away from belief or meditation or healthy thoughts or practices. Realisation – yet another thing I have to work on – but not sure how to consciously do that – but I am hoping that as happened before - one positive thing seems to have knock on effect and leads to another positive things and I end up with a good head on / more calm feelings and a bit more motivation, energy and perhpas even a few heathy routines in my life.

Have bundles of self-help books and "booklets with exercises" and am "surfing" and searching the web and reading and posting on here like mad. In a little bit of a self-help frenzy just now and possibly in danger of info overload but until I reach that point when my brain says "stop" I intend to l continue. Have a birthday approaching and an increasing awareness of time slipping by and me sliding back into my rut - so want to take positive action.

So, during my reading have come across your posts and glad I did. Your idea of “building a house” caught my eye. My mortar (my self confidence in my own judgement and perspective and sense of entitlement to both) to hold the bricks of wisdom and insight together was perhaps a bit too thin last time to keep the bricks in place for long enough - going to try get better tools and a better mix to keep it all together more this time. Also, your metaphor about your life being your art particularly appealed. I’ve thought that before but not applied it to “my middle” – navel piercing!
Also you seem intelligent AND convinced by CBT so are making me feel a little bit more positive towards that - have some info on that to work through - which I will do - but perhaps with a slightly better attitude. Had actually started my own self-help file/resource/kit. Trying to write some thoughts or perspectives that might help me “get a clearer head / cooler perspective” so I can readily access them when most needed. Will probably add my take on your take on “middle” to it.
Am also “poking around in my past “, examining my “internalised messages” / basic beliefs etc and hope to move in from them – many affirmations will be required!! Plan also to do some more work on confidence and assertiveness - at times I crumble back into being defenceless and boundaryless – but want to go forward into empowerment and limit setting.

Anyway - that's the intention – and “doing the work” so far – am reading and - talking the talk - walking the walk can be much more difficult. As a friend said, “being assertive always sounds very "do-able" right up until you actually have to do it!” But I intend to try. Thanks for the encouragement and substantial post and for your time and sharing your insights and perspective. When I do some of the above will not doubt post more - hopefully you will still be around to read/reply.

Ok......I think I figured something out ......

And I think its important. Well......its important to me lol
Of course.....it might not be important to you and thats ok.....

You asked me why I have limits on my true self. And you give me a lot of examples about the way you think which basically boils down to a life with no limits.

And I understand why that is appealing. It seems like it would be very freeing and liberating. On the surface. You can do anything and say anything and control everything...... and you don't have to worry about consequences.

And this is a pattern for you.....
Everything can be either one way or its opposite way.
And you really want to have control over everything.
And you say , if I understand you correctly , and I know you will correct me if I am wrong! LOL
You say everyone should believe this basically....this freedom and limitless life....

This is why I can't. I think its about the object constancy thing.

There is a pattern to everything you say.....and basically when you have one thing, you have its opposite which cancels the other thing out.
So the problem I see with that is where it leads........
it leads to nothing LOL!
Absolutely......and I know you don't believe in absolutes but I do,
and so using your argument if things are absolute and not absolute......then you still come up with ...... Nothing
But more importantly for me.....if everyone felt this way and had no limits, then eventually everyone would want to kill someone else and no one would be left.
If no one is left.....then you end up with .....nothing.

If one person believes it, then of course one person doesn't have the power to cancel out everything, because all the rest of us whackos who believe in the man in the sky put all these limits on ourselves! LOL!! But without limits if everyone thought this way then everything would just cancel everything else out in one way or another until there was nothing left.

You asked me if I would agree that you could be right in what you think. All your thoughts are personal truths, and I told you I believe a persons personal truths are true for them. I can't change someone elses personal truth. If they say its true then I can't question it. Its true for them if they say its true. Only they can question it. I can't even argue with you about factual truth, because you made the non belief of factual truth one of your personal truths. So basically I have never disagreed with you about any of this as it relates to being your personal truth. You can't disagree with someones personal truth. It belongs to them and they are the masters over it.

Ironically and not ironically at all LOL everything you believe is the exact opposite of what I believe. The one place we agree is that our personal truth belongs to us. I think my personal truth is something I was born with but I did chose my plan and you believe you did not chose your personal truth if I understand you correctly.....
And you have no plan
So in a way you are saying you had no choice....you are what you are
and I am saying I chose my personal truth

Isn't someone with no choice a victim? Wouldn't that make you a victim of your personal truth?

I mean if someone wants my money and I have no choice about it I am a victim.
If someone wants to take my life and I have no choice about it then I am a victim.
Whereas I chose mine....so that would make me personally responsible for my personal truth.
If you have a choice then you have to be responsible for the outcome.

Its funny to me cause lets imagine for a minute that there IS a man in the sky and I am right. And imagine one day you and I are sitting in front of him eating my enchilada casserole LOL......and he says to me...ok I gave you this life what did you do with it? And I tell him I developed a plan and built this thing and I think its good......its me. And he says to me ...ok whats so good about you? And I proceed to tell him everything I think I did that was good and matched my plan. And then he askes me what about all this bad stuff I gave you. And I tell him....well that I turned into good too and I show him how. Then looks at you and says ok I gave you a life....what did you do with it. And you say.....I did everything and nothing. And he says ok show me all the everything you did ....and you say well......all the nothing cancelled it out. I don't have anything to show. I can tell you all I did. But I don't really have anything to show you cause all the bad you gave me cancelled it out. And he askes you.....how come you made no plan? And you tell him I wanted to live a life with no limits, I wanted to be FREE and he then says to you.....then how come you have nothing left to show? You say I had no choice it always ended in nothing because of the bad you gave me. The bad always destroyed the good.
So he looks at me and says......I wanted you also to have freedom and no limits ...
did you have FREEDOM ? I say to him yes.....I had the freedom to create.
And he says did you have no limits??? And I say God......I am still creating.....creation has no limits.
God says ok. How is it that you ended with something and he ended with nothing?
And I say I had a plan.
He askes me where I got the plan. And I say I just made it up....out of nothing. I trusted in the easter bunny.....and in you........
Then he says to you.....so why didn't you make a plan? And you say.....you didn't give me a plan I had no choice. And he says to you....you're here aren't you? That was a plan.
You say.....but I am nothing ( no self worth) He says...you are something to me.
U wanted freedom without limits - but yet having no limits only ends in destruction
I see freedom in limits- because its all about creation......and creation has no limits.....
And this is the GOOD scenerio.
You know why its the good scenerio?? Because you know how I like to focus on the good and how my goals are always to shoot for the good and all that...???????
But another scenerio is you cancel yourself out.......and you cancel the man in the sky out.
In fact you said this to me: "So yes...my mind, is saying FU to my parents......but also to itself and also to the world......." "My subconscious.....is saying FU, to itself."
And you may not care about this scenerio.......
But it hurts me
It really upsets me. Not just like ouch I stubbed my toe upset......
It hurts me because you are removing a brick from MY foundation if this happens......
LOL you are like the bully on the playground!!!
But its because you are in my middle.....just like everyone else
And you do have value to me

Even if you have none to yourself

So here is my ending to the above story. The man in the sky says to you.
You say you are nothing and you have no plan.
But I say you are something and I am the creator......I made you....thats why you are still here.
Because I am more powerful then you are I created you out of nothing because I too had a plan
My plan.....is your very existence
Do you want to remain a part of my plan ???
Now my question is........what do you say???
He could just be the Easter Bunny!!!!! LOL!! And maybe he is lying to you, how do you really know??? Maybe he didn't create you. Maybe you are not part of his plan!!!!
What if there is also a bad guy there?? What if he says to you.
This guy is full of #######4 I am the one who made you feel $#%^.
I am the one who offered you FREEDOM and no limits
I am the one who created you. This guy is just pretending to have all this power.
I have MORE power then him. I can do anything. Stick with me and we can go places.
What idiots these two are huh?
You and me....we can go far together......we can do anything we want!!!
The guy I believe is the creator. The guy with the plan
He is the guy I trust.
Now who do you trust????
Your whole life.....no plan
So the creator says to you. You want to go with me or with him?

Now in my story.......someone here is lying.
One of these two has a lot of power. A lot more then the other.
One has a plan
I don't know about the other one.....
I don't know why they gave you a choice....do you?
Maybe cause with 2 of anything you always have a choice
Thats assuming.....those 2 things will always be around
The creator says to you.....I can put you back down there.... and keep you in my middle.
But to stay in my middle you will need to eventually come up with a plan.
Meanwhile the other guy he is saying......with me its easy.....you don't have to do nothing
You don't need a plan
I am tellin you...I have No plan and I am STILL HERE!!
OOooooOOOooOOo This is getting good no???
Talk about DRAMA!! Talk about suspence!!!!
Talk about POWER and good and evil......What a show!!!
Then the creator says to the Bad guy........you have no plan either????
And the bad guy says no.....
The creator says......wait a min.......
forget about this guy.....
How about you....You want to stay in my middle?
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Now this is exciting to me.
REALLY exciting.
We are like on the verge of something BIG No???

And thats the end of the story
Cause I basically don't know what this bad guy is gonna say.
Just like I don't know who you would choose
Who do you trust?

You know I have nothing to give you....no physical thing. I dont value physical stuff much anyway.
And I don't know you.......although in a way I feel like I do in a way. I feel like you have been honest with me anyway ( lol who would lie about this stuff? )
And maybe you don't think I understand and you're right .....there are levels I do not understand.
But there are some things you say that I relate to.

I grew up in a house where everyone was screaming and yelling all the time.
I was always getting in trouble.....
Anyway I grew up and went to work. I am an RN.
Anyway....at work I used to get these evaluations
I had 2 bosses......
LOL and they would always cancel each other out!
One would say she liked the way I always spoke my mind
The other would say me speaking my mind all the time was too much for people to handle sometimes LOL! Now these people are supposed to be payin me?
Very clever of them to cancel each other out no?? LOL So you know what I got??
Nothing!!!
So you see what I am saying here? Its not good for ME....to cancel everything out.

They would also say I was great under pressure
I would laugh to myself and think....these people don't know what pressure is. They didn't grow up at my house!! To them I just didn't get emotional though when things got tough..... but its cause their idea of stressful wasn't the same as mine. So $#%^ could be goin on all around and I was calm as a cucumber.
Also I remember every once in a while a nurse or a doctor would say to me.....I am so mad about this or I am so mad about that. And I would be like.........You are mad? Right now? That is mad for you? Cause the only thing they did was say it. No one screaming or turning colors or throwing things. Just I am mad. LOL! I tended not to believe them.....only at some point I did.....I just figured they didn't grow up in my house. So they are different. I learned to believe them when they said they were mad.
So in that way....small as it is......I understand the intensity of emotions thing.
Its on a smaller scale but I can imagine it.

LOL I have delegated my joy of pain to the bedroom......
enough said!

maybe thats a levels thing too.......

Ok and the emotions thing relating to killing someone.
I imagined you want to feel:
Destructive
Angry
Powerful
regretful
sad
heroic
And all those emotions seemed related to me except for being a hero- because you don't really think of Heros as having most of the other emotions that are on this top list. These are things you want NOW. As an adult
I think as adults we rebel against our parents. So to me these would be the opposite emotions you might have had as a child. If you are rebelling now then as a child you might have felt the following:
creative- child is created
joyful-this is usually a good thing
powerless- they are helpless
hopeful- they need to be taken care of
pleasure- they want to feel they are good
evil or like a villian- and here is the emotion that you don't expect to be in a childs resume.
So I asked you if there was a villian in your childhood.

I also said that if you switched the Hero and Villian around. Put the Hero on the bottom and the villian on the top. Then you cancel out the top ( they are all bad LOL!!) and the child on the bottom.....becomes a different person.

If we leave this scenerio the way it is.....one thing cancels the other out.
And you have nothing.....
You can argue that....but I think you know what I mean here
Thats just something that makes sense to me.

You admit you have no self worth. I just think you have a choice to build it now if you wanted/ I can't not think that because I did it. Oh my god I felt like I had no choice to have anything i wanted. I was a loser loner bad, dumb stupid....blah blah. I was the class clown in HS and when I turned 23 I forgot how to be funny. Who was I?? I was in a big huge funk of despair and self loathing. I liked it! LOL!! Yes I liked it cause it felt normal to me. I stayed there cause it was easy. Its always easier to do nothing then to do something. Anyway i started the thought thing and now I feel at peace with myself and my plan. LOL its all good.
When I broke up with the N Ex in High School I was beside myself for 2 years...actually longer because of the upbringing. Now I am doin pretty good and its been only about a month!
You believe that I am all locked in facts now and I am clueless about what you have said, but I'm not....with a smaller intensity I used to feel the same. I was a victim....Nothing was my fault. I was born thinking the way I did ......and I couldn't change it.
I did change it.
LOL Now you want me to go back?? Trust me even if I am living in fantasyland now ....and I am better here then I was where I was.
All you'd need was a goal....to love yourself. I can't give you that. Only you can.
But I do have a theory!!!
I came up with this today.
It also has to do with object permanence and punishing you!!!
You say you like pain. No......you like what I would consider pain. You like my definition of pain.
Thats how you can say this to me.
But you hate it when you only feel one emotion. You dislike it so much you have to feel the opposite all the time. Back and forth ...back and forth
HA! I know how to punish you now! MUHAHAHAHA!!
Make you bored forever or make you feel good forever.
Thats pain to you. You fear that.....( fear the plan and goal and the building)
fear is bad No?? otherwise why would you be avoiding it ...this thing you fear
So on some level you do believe in a permanent sortof bad....you just avoid it
which makes it not permanent to you.
Ok and here is what I think about that.....

And I always used to tell my N ex this LOL!!! ....but I think YOU will relate.
The thing you fear the most.... is the way to get to real love of self
Its by doing the opposite of what you are doing now.
So instead of running from what you fear....you face it
concur it
and then you find out in the end.....the thing you feared wasn't scarey at all
the bad thing...the thing you avoided
becomes not bad
It would be like creating SOMETHING out of nothing for you- creating a good self
The bad is permanent....if it wasn't then bad wouldn't be there when you went back to it after being good
the good is not permanent because the negative emotion always cancels out the good one
bad= destruction
good =creation
to make bad good you have to make something out of nothing
all you need is a goal.....and to keep working for it
Limits
the fact that you avoid permanence means permanence doesn't exist somewhere for you
permanence =bad
Bad =destruction
Destruction of permanence= no permanence
YET
object permanence......that thing you are missing
the only way for something to be permanent is for it to stay in one place
your emotions back and forth all the time.....no permanence
LOL you do you see the brilliance of that LOL!!!
No....just logic
I wish i was brilliant or even just f**kin had an idea then maybe I'd stop smoking

Anyway
YOU WANNA BE A MAN!!!
Well then show me how you REALLY like pain and face your fear baby!!!!!! LOL!!!!

LOLOLOL

or not.....its just a theory

But when I changed.......it was painful
I got this plan for good
WTF I know about good???
it was scarey
It was unknown to me
Something completely unknown
I had to believe that the fear and pain was going to lead to something good
didn't even make any sense
I had to trust in something that seemed completely WRONG to me
the man in the sky I guess

But here is another irony for you.
I believe in the Guy in the sky He is MY parent
But to me.....you believe in whatever it was your parents told you about your worth....
and they are the Easter Bunny people LOL
Maybe God is just the adult version of the Easter Bunny and both are harmless?
I mean Parents screw kids up in a lot of ways....but I don't know if anyone ever went to therapy over the Easter Bunny.....

So in some respects......maybe you right......if trusting a fantasy /God....is trusting in nothing
Maybe we do both trust in nothing
But the one thing that is good about nothing and trust is.......
if you have nothing....then trusting in something that doesn't exist....
can't make that nothing worse

Assuming there is no organized religion !!! LOL

And I do NOT believe in organized religion. no how....no way. I do believe in Jesus. When I read his stuff he sounded more like a therapist to me then God. Which is why I liked him so much!

Anyway this is just my theory. It makes sense to me. But its your life and you are the best qualified to run it.

Ok and I wanted to say something about trusting people. Cause I think its huge.
I trust people when they are trustworthy.
But I don't find out if they are trustworthy by forcing them to do something for me.
And I'd never ask someone to do anything bad for me ( except in the bedroom of course! LOL)
I try NOT to control other people
People tend to be creatures of habit......so
All I have to do to know if they are trustworthy is to look at how they act.
If they talk about other people badly to me.....then chances are they talk badly about me to other people too. If they cheat on me, they will cheat on others too. If they steal from others they will steal from me.
If their actions and their words always match ....or nearly always match.....and they don't lie or omit things from the truth, then they are trustworthy- because lies leave a trail of inconsistencies behind them
words and actions not matching=inconsistent
But the BIGGEST one is if I tell them something they do hurts me and they stop doing it or try to compromise with me and find a solution that makes us BOTH happy then I can trust them.

Also I would not think a girl who does anything bad was trustworthy. WHY? Cause if she will kill for you....then she obviously doesn't give a $#%^ if you go to jail because you are very likely to get caught at some point. Not to mention how that would ###$ up someones mind.
A girl you could trust would not want that for you. How do you figure someone who would risk losing you to jail or insanity ( meaning she'd never see you again) is trustworthy? if you really want a girl who is trustworthy....pick the one who tells you your an idiot cause you'll end up in jail!!!!! LOL!!!
Not to mention what you would do to your psych......

Again you see freedom without limits - but yet having no limits only ends in destruction
I see freedom in limits- because its all about creation......and creation has no limits.....it just keeps on creating, that is freedom....if you have object constancy
Which you can create out of nothing

You said you were afraid of losing control. I can see that would be a possibility. because your focus is on controlling others. When you do that......you can't focus on controlling you. So maybe to feel more in control of you....stop trying to control others???? Its just a thought....you know whats best for you.

Why you say people hurt you.....people like me, us normal people???
You said we got mad at folks with personality disorders......no we want them in our middle and they just keep moving in and out. Frustrating!!! We have no control over them...but it disrupts the creation. Either stay and work or get out= but its their choice not ours . Our preference is they stay because we can see their GIFTS....what they have to offer ( more on that later)

I have not been mad at you yet. Have I said something to make you think I was???
And far as I am aware I am not trying to change your mind or force you to be something you don't want to be. I am just letting you be you here. And sharing my beliefs and opinions with you.
I listen and I appreciate you taking the time and effort to talk to me about yourself. And I appreciate your honesty. But I have no control over you and don't feel a need to control you.
When I say stuff about my feelings about what you think....I am just putting my opinion on the table. You have the choice to just say no thanks.....thats not for me. And I respect that.
You know whats best for you. I still smoke!!! LOL!!!
As far as others. I never said normal people were perfect. No one is and no one can be. The worlds an imperfect place. I don't go around hurting people intentionally. But neither am I always focused on making others feel happy and good about themselves. Thats not my job. I am not the happiness queen who is responsible for everyone elses joy. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness. Its also not my responsibility to read peoples minds. I cant do that. If someone needs something from me, then they should tell me. I don't expect people to read my mind either. I don't expect people to make me feel happy or important or worthy. I feel those things already. But I still work on them all the time too. If I need something from others I ask for it. If I don't say anything then you can assume I am fine. I am happy to support people when I know they need support. But I don't assume I know what they need. I expect them to tell me.
I do the what I can do and I take care of my responsibilities......
Dont tell me the guy who doesn't believe in limits is gonna start putting rules on me now!

Also I wanted to say i am sorry about your brother. What a loss that must be for you.....
I can't imagine what that is like.

So I should go its very late and tomorrow I have to work!
Oh my it already is tomorrow! EKKK!!

Thank you for making me laugh. Its great. You are so FUNNY!! ....Which is , in my opinion.........a MUCH better gift then lying!
EVERYONE loves someone who can make them laugh.......
When I have time I will be back and see whats goin on. I think I posted a bazillion posts today cause I had the day off and I am still trying to figure out the site and where everything is and blah blah...... Nite

Went to bed thinking about our conversation, among other things. So yes....thank you for distracting me aswell.

Ok......I think I figured something out ......

Me too.

I understand why you cannot get it. Not just you, but people in general. Even people....that are "trying" to get it......there is a whole mess of them, i constantly run into them on buddhist forums or Zen forums.....and they "get it".......but they also don't. They essentially hit the same snag you do.......would be the same one, i imagine (just constructed differently) that Einstein hit.

You asked me why I have limits on my true self. And you give me a lot of examples about the way you think which basically boils down to a life with no limits.

Yes....this makes perfect sense. I understand, why you want limits.
And i understand the problem you see, without having any.

Thank you for making that very clear.



Here is the problem..........you see having no limits, as an absolute.



In that regard, having no limits.......itself would be a limit. You would be LIMITED by your inability to BE LIMITED.

This is another paradox..........and as you laughed at earlier, i told you how my thinking solves all paradoxes.


You see having no limits, as absolute..........You either have limits, or you don't. It is black and white thinking...........the kind, BPD people do all the time.

Everything can be either one way or its opposite way

More absolutes...........everything can be any way. Or no way. Or both at the sametime......in the same space of realisation.

You say everyone should believe this basically....this freedom and limitless life....

Yes. But everyone should also not believe it. There is a space for that too.
Both believe it.....and also, do not believe it. And do both those things....at the same time.


Like your "real" you..........they both are real. And unreal.....depending where you look from.

and basically when you have one thing, you have its opposite which cancels the other thing out.

It doesn't cancel anything out. There is no "out".........Out is both in, and out.


A tiny piece of out.......allows for things to be in. And a tiny piece of in, allows for things to be out.

Absolutely......and I know you don't believe in absolutes but I do,
and so using your argument if things are absolute and not absolute......then you still come up with ...... Nothing

Ah......but my argument is that things are both and also not..


THings are also both and also not......and NOT both and also not.


My argument, is also not absolute.


Very important.



YOU come up with nothing. And that scares you, because it is absolute. Or rather, not absolute.........it is nothing.


So you think it is a fact.....that there is nothing. You know it is a fact......because you think it is a fact, that there is something.
You believe this totally.......absolute.

Yet.....you could never go out, anywhere and find nothing. And bring it back to me and show it to me. You could never prove, that it is a fact. The only fact you have.....is the opposite.......the fact that there are things. So to you, this proves that there is not things.

One "phantom" reinforces the other. One absolute......reinforces the other.........



You run into the same issue....here, as you do with LIMITS or LIMITLESS.................it is either one or the other. (in your world)
There is no room for contradiction. Which, does not allow for paradoxes.


You must allow for paradoxes. And contradiction.

And a FACT, cannot be a FACT as you understand them.

Neither can a paradox..........neither can limitlessness...........

Ironically and not ironically at all LOL everything you believe is the exact opposite of what I believe

Only because you don't yet understand what i believe. LOL

You still use your understanding, to understand mine.



The problem here............is that my understanding, allows for yours. Because, you are not ABSOLUTELY wrong. You are both right and wrong....and both not right and not wrong etc....


But your understanding, doesn't allow for mine. You understanding, needs to make mine....."a personal truth".........my understanding, can never be fact in your world.

That is your world's........delusion. And that is its prison.

Things are either free....or not free. Fact or not fact.............."Real" or "false"..........



And when science ( a system based on fact....the system created to tell you what a fact is....) tells you that there are no FACTS....as you understand them............it is too late.
The notion that there are FACTS.....has set in. It cannot really be undone.......you will look around and see these facts everywhere..........but they aren't facts. Just observations........

This will always leave a part of the world, and its mysteries....a mystery. Because you will be living in a world, that is delusion........yet the presence of the delusion, is proof to you that it is not delusion.
And since things in this delusion.....must be EITHER DELUSION OR REALITY............things can never be here, as they are.

You impose the limit of your own understanding........your own understanding, doesn't even understand what limits are, or what understanding is.......only it's perception of those things.
Yet it has found a way, to make that perception........unquestionable. FACT...ABSOLUTE.......unquestionable things, that cannot be argued.



But i am here, arguing............and my argument is sound.

Science is here........arguing.

Paradoxes are here..........arguing.


The logic of your world..........isn't a fact. No part of it, is absolute.
You need one part, to prove the existence of any other.........


My world, allows for both of ours to exist.
Your world...does not. Your world, has to invalidate mine..........has to.


And it does this, through fact. But all the facts, of your world......add up, to tell you that they are indeed not facts. LOL
Yet.....that cannot be true! they are facts!!!!!!!!! LOL


Kind of like.....when you count your money, and you don't have enough.....you can't it again.
Well, maybe math isn't a fact! LOL Better wait 100 years...if someone comes along and disproves facts....for a fact! (paradox!!!!)

Isn't someone with no choice a victim? Wouldn't that make you a victim of your personal truth?

If there are only VICTIMS and NOT VICTIMS...........if those things were absolutes. LOL

Its funny to me cause lets imagine for a minute that there IS a man in the sky and I am right

You are right.

You don't have to be wrong.........for me to be right. Only i have to be wrong, for you to be right.
In my world, facts can be absolute and also not absolute at the same time.

In your world, that would make them not facts.

"My subconscious.....is saying FU, to itself."
And you may not care about this scenerio.......
But it hurts me
It really upsets me. Not just like ouch I stubbed my toe upset......
It hurts me because you are removing a brick from MY foundation if this happens......
LOL you are like the bully on the playground!!!
But its because you are in my middle.....just like everyone else
And you do have value to me

Even if you have none to yourself

I am the bully........because you see it what way.

You see me saying.........VALUE or NO VALUE...........because you see it, as either one or the other.


Do you understand?

I mean...........do you finally understand?



I am not taking a brick from your foundation. You can have 2 foundations.......if they are both real. And both facts. LOL
But you need one of them, to be less..........for the other, to be more.


You get this!

I know you do.


It's why, you are able to see value in the queen or a serial killer or whoever.............the problem you have, is you don't allow yourself to see UN-VALUE......To do so, you would have to destroy VALUE......
But you can't............BECAUSE DESTRUCTION is absolute. Just like VALUE and UNVALUE........they cannot both be together, at the same time for you.


So yes......i too think a serial killer and the queen, or say the princess cause she's hot! have the same value.
I also, can say that i think they do not.

I can make an argument for either......and allow both arguments, to be EQUAL. It doesn't have to kill me or disrupt me or any of that.........and if it did, i do not need to see those as bad things.
Not always.........

So here is my ending to the above story. The man in the sky says to you.

Jesus? Is he still talking to me? You think he would be busy..........

You say you are nothing and you have no plan.
But I say you are something and I am the creator......I made you....thats why you are still here.
Because I am more powerful then you are I created you out of nothing because I too had a plan
My plan.....is your very existence
Do you want to remain a part of my plan ???
Now my question is........what do you say???

Well, the problem with this is........god would have to be less "intelligent" than me. Or less "creative" or however you want to phrase it.

Because.......if i did say i was nothing, and had no plan.............i would also, be saying that i am not nothing, and had a plan.
Being nothing, would be being something.............and having no plan, would be a plan.

And i think god, would (unless he was feeling ill from eating your casserole)........would understand that.
So he wouldn't ask, a silly question.



But if god, was some sort of delusional meglomaniac......who didn't understand an important aspect of the very world he created.......

I would say "yes"......let's keep me in the fold. There's this nurse, and i'm trying to KILL her by KNOCKING down her foundation. Got a sledge hammer?




LOL



Ok....you are losing it a bit with this:

And maybe he is lying to you, how do you really know??? Maybe he didn't create you. Maybe you are not part of his plan!!!!
What if there is also a bad guy there?? What if he says to you.
This guy is full of #######4 I am the one who made you feel $#%^.
I am the one who offered you FREEDOM and no limits
I am the one who created you. This guy is just pretending to have all this power.
I have MORE power then him. I can do anything. Stick with me and we can go places.
What idiots these two are huh?
You and me....we can go far together......we can do anything we want!!!
The guy I believe is the creator. The guy with the plan
He is the guy I trust.
Now who do you trust????
Your whole life.....no plan
So the creator says to you. You want to go with me or with him?

Now in my story.......someone here is lying.
One of these two has a lot of power. A lot more then the other.
One has a plan
I don't know about the other one.....
I don't know why they gave you a choice....do you?
Maybe cause with 2 of anything you always have a choice
Thats assuming.....those 2 things will always be around
The creator says to you.....I can put you back down there.... and keep you in my middle.
But to stay in my middle you will need to eventually come up with a plan.
Meanwhile the other guy he is saying......with me its easy.....you don't have to do nothing
You don't need a plan
I am tellin you...I have No plan and I am STILL HERE!!
OOooooOOOooOOo This is getting good no???
Talk about DRAMA!! Talk about suspence!!!!
Talk about POWER and good and evil......What a show!!!
Then the creator says to the Bad guy........you have no plan either????
And the bad guy says no.....
The creator says......wait a min.......
forget about this guy.....
How about you....You want to stay in my middle?
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Now this is exciting to me.
REALLY exciting.
We are like on the verge of something BIG No???

And thats the end of the story
Cause I basically don't know what this bad guy is gonna say.
Just like I don't know who you would choose
Who do you trust?

Well right now......i'm trusting, that perhaps you forgot to take your medication? LOL


You realise...in your story, you know who the creator is. And you are telling me that the creator is saying this and that....and then the other guy is saying something........

Well, if i know who THE CREATOR is..........then of course, i'm gonna just go with him! LOL


??????????????


LOL



DAMN YOU LADY! I HAD A POP IN THE FREEZER[size=50]to chill itAND YOU DISTRACTED ME AND NOW IT IS FROZEN SOLID..........DESTROYED DESTROYED BY YOUR DESTRUCTIVE ok well, this joke didn't work.....and i'm fairly sure i messed up these sizing things.......but yeah, my pop is frozen and now i have to chill a new one....cause i'm CREATING some frosty goodness.......[/size]

I grew up in a house where everyone was screaming and yelling all the time.
I was always getting in trouble.....

Do you think it hurt you, in other ways? Like....you seem to paint a fairly good picture of yourself....besides adultery? But i don't judge people for that......so yeah, i was wondering....besides the benefits it gave you.........what are some of the detriments you developed because of it?

Very clever of them to cancel each other out no?? LOL So you know what I got??
Nothing!!!
So you see what I am saying here? Its not good for ME....to cancel everything out.

What's with the cancelling?

Everything seems to be cancelling?


Are you balancing a cheque book or something?






I'm still not getting the HERO VILLAIN baby thing.

Though, i don't like to talk about babies.......i really don't like babies, in general. I mean....i don't have real problems with them, they do know more than jalapenos.......but i am uncomfortable with babies.

Why?

Why do you think?

They are too vulnerable......(beyond also looking gross!).........and i hate to think of myself, as being that vulnerable.


So yeah..........didn't want to think about your story, and how baby me....was FU))CKED cause he was fairly defenseless.
(err, i mean messed up.....not abused physically)

You admit you have no self worth

Yes, pretty much.


I mean, of course i have self-worth..........just not much of it, or atleast...not a lasting stable supply.......

LOL Now you want me to go back?? Trust me even if I am living in fantasyland now ....and I am better here then I was where I was.

LOL

We all live in fantasyland.


I am glad you are better where you are now......but don't let that stop you, from being ever better...somewhere else.

Yes you changed your thinking once..........and it helped you.
Why can you not do it again? (oh right facts......facts say you just can't!)


You are a victim of your facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LOL

All you'd need was a goal....to love yourself. I can't give you that. Only you can.
But I do have a theory!!!
I came up with this today.

I do love myself.

I do and i don't.

It ain't a either or..........

You say you like pain. No......you like what I would consider pain. You like my definition of pain.
Thats how you can say this to me.
But you hate it when you only feel one emotion. You dislike it so much you have to feel the opposite all the time. Back and forth ...back and forth

Well, for the first time............in a LONG LONG TIME............you make sense.

So on some level you do believe in a permanent sortof bad....you just avoid it
which makes it not permanent to you.
Ok and here is what I think about that.....

Yes...well, now you know my secret.





(gonna go get my pop now, before you destroy that one................*see i am a victim, aren't I? LOL)





BTW...quit calling me a victim. Cause, i just might have to come make you one if you keep doing it.


(that is meant to be flirty, and scary! Rawr!)





BTW...........about the torturing me thing.


A) you're a nut

but B).............

It is also about expectation.

If you were to kidnap me and lock me in your basement..........i wouldn't be bored. I would be many things........scared, angry etc.........but i wouldn't be bored. Cause i would know, i was locked in your basement....and since you're insane, and kidnap people you don't even know on the internet!........i would just assume, i was never going to get out.
So i would entertain myself, with my mind..........

If you wanted to torture me.........by boring me........it would be better, if you MARRIED me. LOL
And perhaps, did what i said all the time? Always agreed with me....no matter what...........
Ok, now i am getting scared. LOL


Same if you drugged me......and somehow made me happy all the time. LOL
I would think, HMM.....this crazy lady is giving me morphine all day long......Well, since you are a crazy morphine giving lady........i would assume, that it wasn't going to stop.
(us borderlines, we get used to things quick........if i won the lottery tonight, in about 3 weeks i wouldn't be able to imagine what life was like before (and feel it) it's actually kind of sick)..........so i wouldn't have the expecation, that feelings were entertainment anymore.


Like a person in a wheelchair...they get used to it.

Now, if that person thought they were gonna walk next week......every week......they would never get used to it.
But since you're a crazy lady........i wouldn't believe you if, you said you were gonna let me go. LOL


So.......your best bet, would to be to kidnap me..........then let me go like 2 days later. Then kidnap me again, and do the same.
Have to be short periods of time.......or else i'd get used to it! LOL


Really...it would be too much work to torture me..........you'd be better off, just doing it the old fashioned way. Marriage.

The thing you fear the most.... is the way to get to real love of self
Its by doing the opposite of what you are doing now.
So instead of running from what you fear....you face it
concur it
and then you find out in the end.....the thing you feared wasn't scarey at all
the bad thing...the thing you avoided
becomes not bad

Like you......and your fear of non-existence. Or ZERO.....or not valuing others or yourself....absolutely.



I agree..........i sometimes try and be bored. it's called meditating.........LOL
it's horrible.


ANd i of course, try and feel good.........all the time. I get so freaked out, and have to run.........usually when i am in a relationship that is working, and/or am doing something i really enjoy.
Like......long days at the beach. I love those........but i have to, plan the next move......if am just sit and "relax" (i do sit...but my mind doesn't stop).........i would freak out.


Now it's all to degrees..........but yes.

the fact that you avoid permanence means permanence doesn't exist somewhere for you
permanence =bad
Bad =destruction
Destruction of permanence= no permanence
YET
object permanence......that thing you are missing
the only way for something to be permanent is for it to stay in one place
your emotions back and forth all the time.....no permanence
LOL you do you see the brilliance of that LOL!!!

I do.

I know.

It's who i am.


To paraphrase Kanye West : I drink
I smoke
I know i am supposed to stop
I don't
Cause
Diamonds are FOREVER



Like i was saying...........by destroying permanence......i am creating a new, differnent kind of permanence.


This is what you've realised about me..............


And you are right. (but you see, how it fits in to my logic.......the world's logic, you create something, you destroy something......you destroy something, you create something else.......energy cannot be created or destroyed)



So yeah..........

I wish i was brilliant or even just f**kin had an idea then maybe I'd stop smoking

I quit.

Been 3 years...........


I had been quitting..........(not kidding) about once a week, for a decade. I think i've quit, about 500 times.......



I finally did it smart........and it worked.


I used the strongest gum.......and used it a lot. Then when i felt like i was sick of the gum....i went to the inhaler. And gradually weened myself off...........i carried my inhaler around, for about 6 months.
The tube shaped one, looks like a smoke...........


Anyways......it was actually quite easy. The inhaler, is just like a smoke............i mean it isn't at all.......but it's close enough, that with will power you can get by.


And if you use the gum...to start.......just get through the first month.......no problem.



HOw much you smoke a day?

I was 1-2 packs........so i doubt you smoked as much as me. LOL


When you start?

Cause your brain chemistry could make it really hard..........if you started in your early teens, like 11-12-13......and kept it up.....then that is gonna be tough.
You'll really need to saturate yourself with nicotine just to keep from killing everyone. LOL

So in some respects......maybe you right......if trusting a fantasy /God....is trusting in nothing
Maybe we do both trust in nothing
But the one thing that is good about nothing and trust is.......
if you have nothing....then trusting in something that doesn't exist....
can't make that nothing worse

Yes that makes sense.


I mean, i'm not saying your world doesn't make sense........just one part of it. The FACTUAL facts part.
Their being, absolute.


But if you see NOTHING as the enemy.....or zero.......then yes, believing in ONE........is good. OR can't hurt.....

But, it reinforces the idea......that nothing is the enemy. Then you will have to always be looking for things, that are not nothing.
And that will grow.........with your understanding, of what nothing is or isn't..........then you will have to fill yourself with ideas or people or things....that are not nothing.
And you will have to see yourself as not nothing...........all the time.

Yikes......maybe it is not so good, to believe in one. I mean, there must be times....when you can let your beliefs go.
But if they are absolute............you must either destroy your beliefs....or destroy the times...........


Which is...well, it's why we have (had) crazies like Bin Laden. Trying to destroy the times.

Or crazies, like Rick Perry..........who wants to repeal the 20th century.

You get locked into a way of thinking........because you have to. Or else you will destroy yourself.......

How can anyone, say that gays shouldn't marry? I mean......it's insane. But there's atleast 40% of 300 million people, who think that. In 2011..........2011.........that would be dumb enough, in 1911.....LOL
Imagine.......if these people get their way. They will still think this.......in 2111...or 2211...or 2311......by that time, they'll be trying to ban robots getting married!
It's UNNATURAL for a ROBOT TO MARRY ANOTHER ROBOT they'll say.........LOL



But this thinking........these absolutes..........it explains, why people can think crazy things. Very crazy things....but are still intelligent.

Plenty of scientists......believe in a man in the sky. Not just in god........but literally a man in the sky.....there's a whole wing of bright folks, at the Vatican.......who are actually scientists.
Like real scientists......but they are also, followers of the bible. Real followers......they live at the vatican.
LOL

It doesn't account.......unless you account, for paradoxes. Contradiction.....a lack of absolutes....and logic, that is self-contained.
Like the matrix........those nuts.


How can a person, like Sarah Palin.........believe the things she says! Even when you give her a list, of the things she said....and another list of the things she said......and the two lists, don't match........she still believes, everything on both lists! And thinks you should too!

I mean......you would have to assume ,she is retarded in some deep profound way.....or a liar.
But no.......she just has a different logic. Only, it's not logic.....it just thinks it is.



So it gets scary.....when things are absolute.

Because........then you cannot change them. And if you find, that you need to....you can't. If you find that it makes sense to........well, you have to find that it doesn't. You can't allow yourself to make sense......you have to devalue that apparati that you use to make sense.


Like in todays political world........there are no facts.

Climate change? That's not a fact. Science? Not a fact either. Evolution? Nope..sorry try again.

President Born in america? Yeah....if you're a hippy who doesn't get the "Real" news.....


Works the other way...........911.........Bush did it. I read somewhere, that those towers should withstand 747s flying into them.........


Crazy....crazy stuff. But people get to say it on t.v. now...........and they aren't laughed at, and taken to a "hospital" to get well.
Infact...they can run for president. And it's "closed-minded" if you don't allow for their view to exist.



Believing in absolutes..........causes a person, to believe in nothing. A person to believe anything......but only in a more dangerous way.
Because they will be destroyed......if they are wrong. So they must, destroy other ways that challenge theirs.


Which leads to........destroying yourself, or the times.

Everyone wants more and better.......everywhere. Regardless of what more or better is to you......we all want it.
So we destroy the times.......but seeking to "create" more or better.

Some people's more and better......is sick. Murder, rape etc......some people's is great, fairness.....a helping hand......but it's always, seeking to change. Change where it is.....by adding more or better.......


This endless cycle....cannot be stopped. If one believes, that more is better.....whether more is less or not......it is always change.
And if you seek to stop the cycle.....that too is also change.

Like we've pointed out with me.......



Only an absolute...........can validate this cycle. Make one direction good and another bad. But making one direction good, makes the other bad........

The absolute..........does not exist in physics.
Nor does it exist in thought.

Only the experience of it.


When you know this...........there is nothing to do! or not do! And you are free and not free!

But you can't "know" this.......you have to experience it.

So maybe to feel more in control of you....stop trying to control others???? Its just a thought....

Yes a very good thought.

I am trying...........

Why you say people hurt you.....people like me, us normal people???

Yes.

People with PDs do to. Worse...........i'd never invest, in someone like me. That would be foolish. Beyond foolish.


(invest, as in...plan to have a long lasting relationship and have it work out)

Now....if you could say, invest and not NEED for it to last.......then well, i'm fun and smart and charming and i doubt you'll ever be bored..........but if you want, safe and secure.....then look elsewhere.
You know?


So yes..........people with PDs are enticing.......but myself, i would never think i had a "real" relationship going with one, that was stable.
Maybe if they had some long history of being "cured" (managing) themselves......but i'd always know how they felt about me on the inside, and i would not be ok with it.

Could that change? Maybe if she had 10/10 body and a brain to match..............but basically, any disordered girl.......or boy...........is a waste of time.
Now if you got time to waste! good fun.

But if you are in so much control of yourself.....and your emotions...........why not pick, a healthy person? With adult emotions and feelings........why pick a timebomb? Just cause they know how to validate you......(ie control you, through the intense expression of their emotions)


Anyway..........total tangent.


But yeah........we're not a safe bet.

So i don't mean to imply..........that regular people hurt me, and i somehow want to find a romance with someone like me.....cause that would be good?

I mean...it would be great. Till it failed.......but it would.



Now, i can only speak.........for my take on DISORDERED people. All you " i have traits" or "i've been with my husband for 20 years and never cheated" on him people.......well i fail to see your disorder.
I am disordered...........cause i destroy my life and everything around me that is good...from time to time...........at a drop of a hat, i may kill you or myself! it would have to be an impactful hat.....but my point is, i am seriously messed up.
So if you got a husband and a job and kids and a nice car and house and don't lie/cheat or steal.....then how are you disordered?
You're just bored. So you're here, trying to figure out why all that isn't enough for you........here's hint, it ain't enough for anyone. LOL



(ha all the disorded people stopped reading long ago.......)

I have not been mad at you yet. Have I said something to make you think I was???

What?

Huh?


Yes yes.... crazy borderline thinks you are mad at him! LOL

And far as I am aware I am not trying to change your mind or force you to be something you don't want to be. I am just letting you be you here. And sharing my beliefs and opinions with you.

Huh?

What?


Yes yes....crazy borderline thinks you are trying to control his mind! LOL




Yes i am aware..........LOL


LOL hahahhhahahahha


*sorry, reminds me i joined a site the other day..........where they mostly dislike BPD people. It's called "we dislike BPD people, and everything is their fault".............Anyways, i was on it for about 20 minutes...before they kicked me off.

I was helpful and thoughtful....and trying to "reach" those people.........(seconded to getting attention, that was my main reason for being there.....(well for fun, but using attention as fun).......

Anywho..........i'm currently accusing them of violating my human rights, for kicking me off cause i am disabled. (have BPD/HPD).......

They can't just exclude me from their site....cause i have BPD. Regardless if it makes them uncomfortable or not.....
You can't close your shop...to handicap people, cause you don't like to look at them! LOL


It's funny.......because they booted, me.........just cause i have BPD......cause i guess, a 1/3 of the people there are just angry and see me as a demon.
But that anger...well, that will never go away....unless they stop seeing us as demons.........


WHo better to help them, than a demon?



Plus...i get to soak up some yummy yummy attention..........



Anyways..........



No.......i don't have some hatred or distrust of NONS more than others.

I have MORE DISRTRUST of PDs for sure. I'm not crazy.......those people are crazy. LOL

I am not the happiness queen who is responsible for everyone elses joy

LOL


Then why i am talking to you? What the hell can you do for me?

Also I wanted to say i am sorry about your brother. What a loss that must be for you.....
I can't imagine what that is like.

Yeah.......

Well...he helped make me.

Apparently he wasn't very nice at times when i was younger............LOL



I mean, it's not sad stuff. He didn't beat me or anything........but he gave me random doses of pain.....probably why i like to hand them out now.

Thank you for making me laugh. Its great. You are so FUNNY!!

Funny, is the hardest thing for me to see myself as.

It is weird.....

Because a lot of close friends.....describe me as very funny. But, i just don't "trust" it.

Like......i never think to myself, that i am funny........but i am funny. I make myself laugh all the time.....but i don't think of myself as funny.
It's weird......like funny is last on the list of the good aspects of myself.........

So yeah...i especially like it when people tell me i am funny.

People tell me i am smart....well i know that. Good looking....well i know that too.........but funny! it's like a surprise....really? me? Aww shucks




Course, people tell me i'm an a0))hole....well i know that! self-ish.....well i know that too. Tell me i have a small c))K....well, depends on what your definition of small is i say to them.....and then i try and argue there are no facts.

LOL

I do feel a bit like I am interfering – intruding in “the room” you two have got yourselves – but a bit bored – and feel fascinated and compelled - hope you don’t mind too much.
"I tell 2 stories......one where i am good and when where i am bad. So i have to compare them, always compare them........."
So you are in the middle comparing or choosing which story to tell?

"There is no "out".........Out is both in, and out."
How does that work in relation to sex? Oh, well you did say it was small.

Is what you are saying - like
"A thing and it’s opposite both complete and negate each other and both stay as they are and become a whole new something else and become nothing … ?"
Oh, my head!!!.

Also if you go to pay for something with a $10 note and the thing costs $5 and you were told you are not getting change because there are no verifiable facts or figures or absolutism etc – you would accept that, TM? Or are there times you deal in absolutes? Maybe there are places and spaces in the universe they do not apply? - but we need them to function here?

If you really look like IMcS and with your intelligence and philosopy, perhaps you will start your own religion, anti-religion / cult. I have very recently figured something out about myself related to the fact that I am always looking for a Guru to be passionate about and admire, as opposed to an ordinary mortal to love – so may not be be able to commit to the cult – but then again, may "relapse" change my perspective and sign up – am certainly enjoying the “sermons” (wrong word i know).

Wish I could “get” what you are saying about the limitless ness.. ness… ness… - maybe I am a bit – but it nearly blows my mind – so maybe for self protection I have to build that brick wall at the end of the universe in case my little brain goes into an eternal loop like a faulty computer program. Fear is a limiter for me. Are you fearless TM? To go places in the mind that can be hard to be in?
Do love the possibilities in what you say - Tm - but also need to find a safer way to help me function - and see things in ThisWayUps philosophy to help me there - or back there - to a centred middle. The Buddha advocated finding the middle way, I think – that’s what I want to do.
Not “the middle way” but “my middle way”.

I think!

Anyway - please carry on - luving it.

I feel like you are intruding too.

I was going to PM you and tell you to not LOL


Really....edit copy......and post this on a new thread. Call it LadyJello......and then we can post there too.

But it would be nice to clean this one up.



So edit copy......then delete.....then paste, on a new thread.......and we can start a 3way!

Okay well mske that a 4way ;0 What you say Twisted is interesting..wish I read all of it, but I have to be in the philosophical arguement type mood ( which I loveeee doing) but right now I am in a sit here and do pieces of many things, never actually getting anything done because I do not know what to do, nor do I really want to do anything , but I feel I should. i realize this and yet if someone asked me I would tell them " eh I am doing school work , of course" .

Oh man maybe I just got myself in the mood! Or maybe I am in the mood to talk and not read.

See, reality really is a compromise and often it gets to the point where I cannot tell what is what anymore because things have become so compromised.

I love people, but dislike them . I want to be close with them, but I do not want them close to me. I want to be with people sometimes ,but often I do not and there are many many times I do snd do not at the same time.

when you questioni everything it is hard to tell what is true, so you come to your best answer. with a Narcissist, they, of course, KNOW the truth or they KNOW waht THEY want to say and so they saynit because they should. wish I had that clarity.

Yeah I can relate to bpd when it comes to feeling with people, but I do not find a need for romantic relationships, so that is where I differ. also I think I think in gray wayyyy too much to be black and white thinking.I think 2 things of something at the same time, and why can it not be that way? something can be both.

You are an interesting sort......

If things can be both..........try not to hurt yourself or wreck anything when you want so badly for them to be one way or another.


I'm trying, TRYING to learn to do the same. It's just hard, not to be freaked out when you are freaking out.