Brother in law

Hi,

I have to deal with a NSD b(rother in law), who is thus unfortunately impoverished, single and living on an allowance.
I came into conflict with b 3 years ago, when he through his sister/my wife kept interfering with our (my wife’s and mine small) business.
When I for the second time expressly tried to confront b on this, he refused to see me further in private, as he did/does with other people, which are no longer of use to him or might endanger his self-cultivated status as being special, and sent me insulting e-mails with copies to my wife.
I did and do not want to accept this kind of behaviour in my family, since this appears to me as contagious as well.

Until this issue is resolved I have stopped attending general family gatherings, as I see them as maintenance of the family-relations as well and in my view the issue at hand should be taken care of first and separately.
My wife and daughters want the damaged family-relations to be repaired by b making private apologies, which I find being inadequate, at least implausible.
That this issue has still not been resolved, is, because it is, at least according to me, a family-matter; otherwise I would have left it or turned to court myself long ago to have determined whether laws have been violated and to claim compensation for suffered material and non-material damage.

Since grown into a family-matter, any repair of relations must begin with b recognizing, in my view in the presence of the whole family, either or not voluntarily, that he has been behaving wrongly.
Settling the argument should in my view be in a ‘special’ family gathering, called in court by b.

Not everybody will immediately see this as the obvious way to handle this problem.
However, in my view it is basically comparable with other in fact complicated family-matters being handled by a professional, according to the law and in a decent way, as handling a legacy by a notary and a marriage in the family in the town-hall, also being attended by all respective family-members.
Besides that b must not be allowed to conduct himself within the family at will, while all other family members do their best.
Of course, my wife should have brought b to behave immediately and I told her that; but obviously however, she cannot cope well with b being disordered, which I must respect..
Of course I have tried to speak to other members of the family, but they all let me observe that they consider it a private matter between b and myself, which I do not agree, at least on the fact that b does not want to cooperate at all in finding a solution, which is acceptable for me.

I very much appreciate exchange views on this subject with people who have experienced something similar.

My excuses for my English, not being my native language.

chrisd

Edit

My wife and daughters want the damaged family-relations to be repaired by b making private apologies

This issue has in recent years not be discussed at all.
Of course I can also not see in the minds of my daughters.
I think, on reflection they find b being kept at a distance by me/their father not a bad idea after all; they are (of course) loyal first to my wife.
My wife seems to be ‘drifting’ between her realizing that the family is handling this thing not very well and loyalty them including b.

Hi Chris,

I appreciate that this is a very tricky situation to be in; one that nobody else would like to be in. Can I just say firstly that the legal route should only be taken as a last resort, in my opinion (i.e. when all other routes have been exhausted / turned up futile). I'm on your side here, but not sure of the benefis of going to the courts. I think that the link that needs to be used here is your wife. Her family will not listen to you for obvious reasons, but they might very well listen to you thruogh yuor wife. She IS on your side with this in general, yes? My only worry is that you might stress her out by trying to use her this way.

OUt of interest, is he still interfering now in things?; or have things quietened down?

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

You wrote:

OUt of interest, is he still interfering now in things?; or have things quietened down?

Now the controversy caused by b is unchanged, we are experiencing ongoing respective material and immaterial consequences and still none of my family in law has been willing to discuss this, things has not changed for the better.

My only worry is that you might stress her out by trying to use her this way.

Until that happens, I do not talk at all about this thing with my wife, who understands that b must do something first.

Can I just say firstly that the legal route should only be taken as a last resort

Now being family, I will never go to court myself.
However I will, in case b wants to reconcile, demand him to submit the matter to the court for an opinion, since I will not agree with b based on trust.
b will only do that as, indeed, a last resort, however on his side
Whether that will ever happen and if so, when and for what reason is not predictable.

Chris

Hi again,

So, is there a definite plan that you have?; or are you just 'drifting' in your life with this problem?

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Some years ago I heard a psychiatrist say something like it on a (Dutch) TV broadcast named: 'When excuses are too late'.
Since then I have tried to fill in the rest of the story for myself, including what to say and how to behave towards my (adult) children.
Especially now that I have the opportunity to discuss this thing on a dedicated forum for the first time.
Which has helped me a lot.
In any case I do nothing until I receive a proposal; then I will probably seek legal advice on that immediately.

Chris

chucky wrote:Her family will not listen to you for obvious reasons, but they might very well listen to you through your wife. She IS on your side with this in general, yes?

Hi,
My wife is well on my side, but we are still disagreed on a (non-significant) business issue.
My wife has on that received psychological support by N b instead of seriously trying to agree with me.
b is a narcist in the family, we happen to live in the same village; my wife says she has promised their mother, now long since deceased, to look after him.
b is like my wife insufficiently informed, always has opinions about everything ready to impose on others and sent me annoying and offensive mails, in which he accused me of all kind of things.
When he started to also send copies to my wife I of course asked her to let this stop immediately, but b does not let himself be told anything.
Then I tried to see b for the 2nd time myself to ask him to not interfere any further with our business.
b did not receive me, since apparently narcissists avoid or run away from difficult conversations or draw their own plan without respecting interests of others otherwise.
I then called b’s (and my wife’s) elder sister with whom I've always had a good relationship.
She immediately understood what it was about, but first wanted to discuss with her husband.
They did not call me back.

Of course all this is tedious and I would of course like to come back to normalcy.
But first order must be restored to a new basis for trust.
I think b should at least explain his conduct and submit his allegations to the competent court, as well as I want him to have reviewed his conduct (eg intentional and systematic interference in at least my own privacy) and at least establish the material damage caused to me.
Also I eg want to hear why my sister in law did not call me back..
I think that b should have invited all family, like on another family gathering, to have informed everybody simultaneously in person.

I do not like the family participating in an abnormal state of affairs, at least tolerating and even imitating the N behaviour as brought to them recently by b.

Maybe b is or has been out to a divorce of his sister/my wife, who has not too much self-confidence, but is also married in community of property in order to withdraw with her.
With me at least leaving half of our property behind.
Maybe that has made b send offending mails to me and has made his family unapproachable for me.
They would thus be at least temporarily freed of several problems; which do not necessarily mean, that they all agree on this.

Mutual approachability, in private, provides family members like myself with the opportunity to look, including through the body language, after respective interests.
See also this topic: Why this lie?

Edit
Changed: 'The black sheep' in 'a narcissist’.
B is in the family conveniently seen as the black sheep, which of course is something else.

Edit
Added to ‘b did not receive me, since apparently narcissists avoid or run away from difficult conversations’: ‘or draw their own plan without respecting interests of others otherwise.

Edit
Marked a part of this text in red for later reference.

chrisd wrote:Now being family, I will never go to court myself.

That attitude right there is your problem. It's his hook for manipulating you. A narcissist can take any irrational taboo you may have and use it to your disadvantage. Simply knowing that you won't won't counterattack with certain weapons actually encourages him to try harder to manipulate, because it's your weakness that can be exploited.

Your best bet is to actually file a lawsuit. If you don't really want to get into a legal battle that's fine, you can drop the claim later or settle out of court, but the simple act of filing a lawsuit will show him that you're serious about defending yourself and aren't going to fight him wearing a straightjacket.

sfguy75x wrote:Your best bet is to actually file a lawsuit. If you don't really want to get into a legal battle that's fine, you can drop the claim later or settle out of court, but the simple act of filing a lawsuit will show him that you're serious about defending yourself and aren't going to fight him wearing a straightjacket.

Well, since b did not want to see me, the whole communication is in email.
Because I would not let me blackmailed, I sent it all to that elder sister, after I spoke to her, which made the mailing stop.
I do the same at the next time.
B has no properties at all.
Go to court myself will so have no positive results whatoever for me.

chrisd wrote:Go to court myself will so have no positive results whatoever for me.

I (also) read in an interview with a psychotherapist, a family bond is stronger than a wedding band.
At least is my wife not very stress resistant, otherwise this thing would have never come this far.
b as well as the other family members know for themselves, that they have made wrong, which in my view will be increasingly difficult to deny.
All others are already been home with us to listen, but in company, where saying unpleasant things about family members and about yourself normally wil be avoided.
I myself think it necessary to talk in private, where such restriction is at least less to restore mutual confidence.
I already indicated that clearly enough, but has been denied until now.
It seems to me the waiting is for an opportunity in the future to resolve this issue; what that will be is unpredictable.

Not least, I also should give my own children and grandchildren a good example, in which tolerating of N-type behaviour within the family does not fit; especially since others refuse to do here anything at all, thus encouraging this thing.

Hi Chris,

You were up very early this morning - any reason for that? I do not think that going to court will be positive either. Therefiore, there must be a way (or ways) to sort this problem out by simply talking to each other. Have you tried to organise a meeting between you, your wife, and the other people? At this meeting, you should each say what you want for the future, and listen to each other's opinions. At the end of the meeting, there must be a consensus regarding a plan for the future.

Kevin