Sub-types of NPD.

deadratt, thanks for posting!

sfguy, i'm starting to recognize how very rare it is for me to "know myself"....most of the time i am most definately out of touch. It's really disconcerting that an hour or two after the fact that i often have no idea what was going through my mind when i did or said significant things. (And, inwardly i feel both shame and victimization as i try to weasil my way out crazy commitments! )

I'm too depressed these days too post more.

Thanks Ettina for the info, i've never heard of these two subtypes, now it makes sense why my therapist couldn't come up with the right diagnosis, she's only aware of the first subtype of narcissists. And i totally fit into the second one.
Its hard to get support for this disorder because people don't understand this condition very well and they just think you are a stuck up snob if you have NPD.
Also I'm frustrated with the victims of narcissists. Wherever you go online and try to find support for this disorder, you just see them bitching about what monsters narcissists are. People with NPD are sick, and it's not their fault that they have this problem, so some compassion wouldn't hurt.
Some of these victims as I can see have codependency issues as well since they like to go to forums for people with NPD, and try to push their advice how narcissists should act and be, oh ye don't forget, they know better, they've dealt with people like you, and you should be grateful cause they are here to enlighten you.
Well, anyways, i've been in therapy for 6 years now, but i'm just starting to look into this disorder.
Good luck to everyone!
I'll be back. And thanks for everyone's input.

This is largely the 'root' of the problem I think. The lack of a 'stable' personality - and the awareness of this lack possibly - is at the core of NPD. I wonder if it is only the most self-aware Narcissists that realise the lack of correlation between what they say/think and their behaviour - or if they are all conscious of it to some degree. If so I expect that it is extremely frustrating and disorientating. I also wonder if the gap between the true and false self becomes more obvious as a Narcissist ages and recognises the 'flip-flopping' between one kind of behaviour and another.

This is an old post I am quoting, but it rings true for me. Struggle with this often. I am very aware.

rm773 wrote:I agree with Ettina, only cause I've had symptoms that resemble the latter scenario:

Unstable narcissists, deep down, feel inferior and cover it up by denying their flaws and going to a lot of lengths to convince themselves that they're perfect. They tend to overlap more with borderlines. They don't lack empathy but are often too overwhelmed by their own emotions to show empathy.

I am the epitomy of the latter type. It has become so bad that everytime something in life gets tough, I quit at it. For example, I just quit my sales job the other day because I made a relatively large mistake that I blamed myself for. I just skipped work and I didn't even go back to show my face I was so ashamed, and although my feelings and body tell me that I'm extremely guilty, my mind has no problems justifying that the job didn't fit my personality type anyway. The worst part isn't even the bridges I have burned by acting out in this way, but it's the fact that I justify this type of behavior internally without 2nd thought. It's a completely conditioned habit/script from some extreme abuse I experienced as a child.

I'm interested in finding out more about unstable narcissists. What would make you quit a relationship?

-- Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:33 pm --

bluesky21 wrote:Thanks Ettina for the info, i've never heard of these two subtypes, now it makes sense why my therapist couldn't come up with the right diagnosis, she's only aware of the first subtype of narcissists. And i totally fit into the second one.
Its hard to get support for this disorder because people don't understand this condition very well and they just think you are a stuck up snob if you have NPD.
Also I'm frustrated with the victims of narcissists. Wherever you go online and try to find support for this disorder, you just see them bitching about what monsters narcissists are. People with NPD are sick, and it's not their fault that they have this problem, so some compassion wouldn't hurt.
Some of these victims as I can see have codependency issues as well since they like to go to forums for people with NPD, and try to push their advice how narcissists should act and be, oh ye don't forget, they know better, they've dealt with people like you, and you should be grateful cause they are here to enlighten you.
Well, anyways, i've been in therapy for 6 years now, but i'm just starting to look into this disorder.
Good luck to everyone!
I'll be back. And thanks for everyone's input.

I have just come out of a relationship with someone I think may be an unstable narcissist. I do not see myself as a victim nor him as a "monster". Im aware that i dont know he actually has this but I think he may do from what Ive read. I would be grateful for any insights you may wish to share with me into NPD from your point of view as you state youve had therapy. The person I know ive known since he was 12 and although we're not talking at the moment we have such history and I care about him very much (even if that has to be at distance) I would very much be interested in hearing more.

I've read to about page 42 of Holdren's disseration.

The description of the covert narcissist fits me very well, though I do think I'm reasonably, if not very empathetic.

I read Wikipedia, and Millon's "fanatic type" seems to fit me well also.

Last, I'm sure I'm a "soma-type". I looked at Vaknin's website, but he seems excessively anti-narc, and I couldn't find the definition/description of the soma-type I was looking for. Is this type or some variation defined by other psychologists, theoriests, systems? I'd like to be able to quote something with some authority.

I may be a difficult person sometimes but I don't think I'm the monster anti-narcs seem to want to paint me as.

Thanks.

ther's only one subtype the hypochondriac
look in the dsm

heracles wrote:(...) I looked at Vaknin's website, but he seems excessively anti-narc (...)

He's actually a full-blown Narcissist himself, so I'm not sure it's right to label him anti-narc.
I think he just writes and says whatever has the potential to be popular and the potential for people to side with him or look up to him
Of course I shouldn't be so critical and judgmental, and my Narcissistic side is probably coming out of me here, but I think there's at least something to this observation about Sam anyway.
But he's cute & can be entertaining for the occasional bedtime-study (like watching/listening to Dr Phil to fall asleep).

@Bluesky
I re-registered on this forum (forgot my old username) just to "thumb up" your post.
I have the exact same problem, and I've been occasionally contemplating these last couple months about various approaches on how I can or should seek help, like briefly imagining group therapy for child abuse victims (now adults), I recurrently wonder if I'm just lazy and am victimizing myself like a lazy, spoiled kid with my "suicidal ideation", with feeling like most work is too much for me (60%+ for social reasons in having to interact with OR ALTERNATIVELY BE ISOLATED AROUND others, 20%+ for not even remotely being acknowledged for anything (that I'm trying, working hard, even though I am an emotional wreck on the inside)), etc, been considering high-IQ-societies because of the experience that they're more emotional sensitive and treats me more appropriately as the fragile being that I am, and go into mind-doodlings about that topic (high-IQ vs mainstream brainwashed people -> and my mind wanders...), and many other options, but it's 4:20 AM here so I'm stopping it there for now...

But anyway, yeah, your post was/is great. I know I'm 10 months late, but.

Oh, and on-topic on Bluesky's post: a psychologist was (imo. prematurely) trying to diagnose me a Narcissist, but told me he won't do it because of stigma/"it's not what I need right now", and a relative of mine which is a psychologist concurred that it was right not to give me the diagnosis because of the stigma, but also because I'm too young.
But yeah, I think NPD but Psychopaths as well is a "shh-shh"-topic.. I forgot what you call them, it's too late here for now to be picking perfect words.
There's no doubt that (at least the majority of) Psychopaths had extreme childhood trauma too, and (at least supposedly) empathy was blocked off as a result (child is taught 'the world is an extremely hostile place, there's no room for empathy, everyone are liars and deceivers, fight with and use all and every mean'), but as is well known the world "needs" (old and outdated, but works on the surface; De Facto) Scapegoats, at least when the masses are uneducated, and if they weren't uneducated then people would demand justice and equality in the world, and then there wouldn't be an economical elite on the top that can wipe their shiny asses with dollar bills, and that's just UNACCEPTABLE! .. :p

This epic rant is epic. I'ma go to bed now.
I wish the Internet was more fluid, so I could've posted this on a blog and linked to it from here instead, so I wouldn't waste all of this forum-space with my garbage, but yet still be allowed to link a one-liner of a link to a post containing this garbage for those interested in reading it...
Oh well. <3

I had always been sort of confused how both my ex and my father could be NPD, because they were entirely different types of people. This article made it all make sense, because it was spot on description of my ex, vulnerable, and father invulnerable. You could just plug their name and occupation in the blanks.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201111/two-types-narcissists-pose-somewhat-different-challenges

If there really is two types of n , I think the diff is that the unstable narcissist reflects and thus is dissatisfied at the thought somebody is better at whatever and the stable n doesn't reflect and thus doesn't understand other people could possibly be better at whatever , just a thought.

Yeah, I seem to notice two different types of NPDs myself. My father is definitely a narcissist but weak and unstable and stupid whereas his brother is of the stable and extremely confident type (but also stupid).

But make no mistake, both of them come from the pits of hell ...