Sub-types of NPD.

You're a quack.

I imagine the root cause must be power. It's probably just more easily expressable as love or fear of loss etc.....but really it's all about control.

It's just more logical from an evolutionary/cosmological standpoint.

Love/connections based on morality/worth is just an abstract notion that exists only in the advanced mind of humans and other animals with neocortexes.

The pursuit of power (control) exists however in all forms of life.....life, seems to just be what matter becomes when conditons are right. (leave all beliefs in goodness and souls at the door please) and in essence in all forms of matter. (all things adapt to the forces put upon them)

So the root cause of PD's or really anything infact, is just an objects attempt to control it's situation.

Whether you're a person looking for someone to love you or a virus looking for a host to attach to, you're essentially just doing what the collection of matter you are, has been always doing from day one. (even before day one, when time hadn't existed yet)

THe problem with PD's, is that we have people without PD's to compare ourselves to. If every person on the planet and every person who had always been on the planet, all had BPD or OCD or whatever, then it wouldn't be a disorder. It'd just be the way people are.

THe problem for people with "maladaptive" disorders.....is that people with out those disorders are (generally) and always have been the authors of what adaptive is.

Our ideas about romance/love/truth/morality........all have come from a society/culture with generally the same sort of values/modes of identification etc........

If every t.v. show you watched your whole life and every book you read and every song you listened to and every relationship you witnessed was authored by and made for two people with BPD....then you wouldn't think your BPD was somehow flawed. Rather if you didn't have BPD, you'd be on a website like this for people without BPD.......talking about how the stable identity and need for emotional consistency was a defence mechanism for a lack of creativity or an aversion to trauma.

(i have BPD possibly NPD...didn't know what to call it so i just wrote BPD, but i meant any PD)

My ex wife was a Covert (Malignant) Narcissist... I wake every morning aware that she is still robbing some poor bastard of oxygen...

THe problem with PD's, is that we have people without PD's to compare ourselves to. If every person on the planet and every person who had always been on the planet, all had BPD or OCD or whatever, then it wouldn't be a disorder. It'd just be the way people are.

Of course. But there is a reason PDs are not normal i.e. the majority of the population does not have them.

Can you imagine a world in which everyone had NPD and BPD? It would be complete chaos.

From a purely evolutionary perspective, our species could never have flourished if PDs were a part of normal behavior.

Paul Mansour wrote: ... saying her view was that personality disorders are deeply embedded maladaptive 'scripts' that people develop, hold on to, and live by ...

Not an expert - but sounds to me a bit like Jeffery E Young et al's Schemas?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vScjGGgJEZgC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=jeffrey+young+schema+questionnaire&source=bl&ots=hRVZdCBd3I&sig=RyuG0wK6yQgzp3RGCWBOe8tA4Uk&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

I thought the two main subtypes were stable and unstable narcissists.

Stable narcissists genuinely feel superior to others, and their big problem is lack of empathy and arrogance. They tend to overlap more with psychopaths.

Unstable narcissists, deep down, feel inferior and cover it up by denying their flaws and going to a lot of lengths to convince themselves that they're perfect. They tend to overlap more with borderlines. They don't lack empathy but are often too overwhelmed by their own emotions to show empathy.

I agree with Ettina, only cause I've had symptoms that resemble the latter scenario:

Unstable narcissists, deep down, feel inferior and cover it up by denying their flaws and going to a lot of lengths to convince themselves that they're perfect. They tend to overlap more with borderlines. They don't lack empathy but are often too overwhelmed by their own emotions to show empathy.

I am the epitomy of the latter type. It has become so bad that everytime something in life gets tough, I quit at it. For example, I just quit my sales job the other day because I made a relatively large mistake that I blamed myself for. I just skipped work and I didn't even go back to show my face I was so ashamed, and although my feelings and body tell me that I'm extremely guilty, my mind has no problems justifying that the job didn't fit my personality type anyway. The worst part isn't even the bridges I have burned by acting out in this way, but it's the fact that I justify this type of behavior internally without 2nd thought. It's a completely conditioned habit/script from some extreme abuse I experienced as a child.

Compulsive Giver aka People Pleaser based on doubt fear punishment cycle.

Compulsive giver or people pleaser needs
approval and attention
From external source to feel self-esteem.
Their pattern dominates all interactions

1.Finds Target as secondary audience for attention and control through giving.
Over generous display = praise worthy. Qualities for target over valued: Ever present, Ever thankful, Ever needy

2. Doubts about value of constantly giving. Giving equated to feeling of sacrifice

3.Verify status of sacrifice through Criticism with condoning audience that devalues the target.
=They aren’t worthy

4. Fear of being used and exploited = increased anxiety
Projects blame, labels and shames Target as cause of their bad feelings
Target is viewed as selfish and self-absorbed not to see the incredible sacrifice. Pleaser is a victim unable
say no to exploiter.

5. Target deserves punishment so dump & withdraw to solve victim status and appear powerful
with Primary audience.
Primary audience applauds action
Audience approval = increases self esteem through agreed spiteful action.
Fractured relationship blamed on character of Target

6. Victory Anxiety relieved.
Primary audience celebrates without recognising pattern of personal destructive behaviour

7. Hollow victory but primary audience captured
Does recognise that solution has casualties
But doesn’t reality test options as sees only their perspective.
Belief in winners and losers so is OK with reflection.
Needs new Target for self esteem building as they have actually just failed a relationship.
Confusion as they attempt to reconcile victim status by lying, blaming and justifying =lowering of self esteem. Note the primary audience is frequently the family of origin.




The people pleaser is another form of narcissist. They don’t value their own giving but the attention they receive for the giving and the later criticism gives them victim status. Their primary audience is generally their family of origin. Their personality is still heavily invested as the actor, manipulator who is addicted to attention. It is a good girl script they have adopted to get attention and control in their family of origin. It doesnt serve them well as adults because adult life cant be as easily controlled by a tap dance for daddy.

@marg: I don't know. Are you sure you're describing a subtype of NPD here? Sounds more like a subtype of HPD to me. "Appeasing histrionic" which is histrionic with dependent and compulsive features maybe?

Yes I looked up appeasing histrionic and there is an overlap.I can see most of the features of this PD fit. I see this as the manipulative style and acting role that most suited the personality of a people pleaser.

The other features, the dominance of the partner by over giving, punishing sadism to inflict pain on a partner for accepting, and the Devalue and Dump more relating to Narcissism. The people pleaser really brings down their partner and ends up being ruthless.