Why a close relationship with a narc is doomed

I read this today on a website and it was so clear and commonsense that I wanted to share it.

In order for a marriage to succeed, there must be intimacy. In order for there to be intimacy there must be empathy.

Narcissism = no empathy = no intimacy = marriage doomed to fail.

It was true in my case, and although I lasted 30 years in a marriage with a narc, I want to make it clear that I survived, I did not thrive. Some members of this forum have asked if there were good times, or how I managed his behaviours. I can and have answered those questions but the bottom line is this - your marriage with a narc will fail because of their lack of empathy. It is pointless to look for bandaid solutions or to struggle on hoping that things will get better.

If you are willing to settle for a life without intimacy, which becomes increasingly lonely and isolated as you age, then by all means struggle on - otherwise get out when you can. You might still be lonely as you grow old, but at least you won't be in the cruel, lonely world created by living with a narc.

I'm a bit younger, my husband is maybe an N, perhaps to a slighter degree, and I'm active and independent and have established clear boundaries. Yet I feel I'm always closing an eye and picking up the slack. And sadly, I still feel what you are saying to be true.

I think it mustn't be easy to share such a personal analysis of one's life. You're honest and generous to do so, Nandy. I truly hope you're now living the friendship, freedom, companionship you deserve.

mindful wrote: I truly hope you're now living the friendship, freedom, companionship you deserve.

Thank you for the kind thoughts. I am rebuilding my life, a few bricks at a time. It is hard to do when you are older, because so many friends drifted away, and my ex was like a cyclonic force, always demanding to be the centre of my universe, even resorting to negative behaviours if that was what it took.

The worst part for me now is not the loneliness, but seeing my two sons imitate verbal abuse patterns of their father.

For instance, we recently got a pet cockatiel. My ex could not tolerate pets in the house although I tried to keep budgies and fishtanks at various times. My sons and I have really bonded over the new pet, caring for it and enjoying it.

This morning my 17 year old was holding it on his hand and I turned the newspaper page and caught its tail. It fell to the table -unhurt but my son glared at me and said "Why would you do a thing like that?"

It was my husband, all over again. A child raised in a normal environment would never have been so quick to accuse his mother.

This is what breaks my heart and sometimes my spirit. Seeing how damaged my sons are by what they witnessed. And they don't even recognize it as abuse. I fear they will carry this into their own relationships, which will in turn will be destined to fail.

This forum is invaluable to me, for the insight you folks share. I really am grateful for the reinforcement....I always sort of knew I would be dysfunctional in any relationship (at the same time I'd tell myself what a good lover I could be) Things seemed really ambiguous; I can never figure out what I want because I always feel two extremes are pulling me apart. But now I know,

That I don't want to hurt people, that I don't even want them to touch me or see me: Corruption spreads so quickly, I understand how easily people like me can "infect," I feel compelled to stay far away, to go far away until I'm forgotten altogether. I'll continue to entertain fantasies of love and affection: but honestly I know how impotent these motivations are.

I revile you, normal humans. You're no better than me....you're all self-sabotaging pretension-machines... I've hated this race of ours...for destroying this planet, then spawning new innocence to tread upon the charred remains of this beautiful world. Can't punish those who are ruining the Earth, it's suicide to some degree.... But you seem to have the ability to justify that and live on, a sort of compartmentalizing I refuse to play along with...maybe thats what they call a "soul"

Am I doing the right thing? (lol) HOnestly I am far behind understanding minute concepts like right and wrong. There is only my comfort and my peace of mind that I need to worry about, I wish there was more but there's no sense lying to myself. As long as you can remind me...of exactly what I am and what I do....I hope I can at least continue to leech "peace of mind" from avoidance. (it won't last-it never lasts) The detractor in my head is such an asshole! I can't believe I live with this guy (what a pessimist you are) Quiet you.

(I want to say) I want to do more, I want to help people, I want...maybe a chance to carry on this grim warning of Narcissism and evil, so that somebody might actually benefit from my presence. But I don't see it happening =( Telling you what I want to do is useless, because there's no drive left in me to move anywhere but down...the best I can offer is my promise...that I won't try and manipulate, I won't try to eat your life out from under your skin: ANYBODY...I don't want you to be afraid of me...but I can't let anyone get any closer, though I know I desperately want them to...I have to stay away. (do you believe yourself?) I. Will. Stay. Away. (liar)

Oh, Nick, this forum is invaluable to all of us, and your input is as useful to us as ours is to you! It gives us precious insight as to what's actually happening in the mind of a N. (I know, no two are alike). There are other 'forums' for 'victims' which carry on about the uselessness in forgiving an abusive N. I don't go to them much, precisely because that doesn't resonate with me. Forgiving doesn't mean hanging out with it, letting it continue, making excuses for it, or not condemning it. But it means letting go of our own bitterness, and having compassion.

Compassion for the 'evil' that exists potentially in all of us. Have you ever read Jung , (for example, on Individuation?) You might find it useful or interesting.

Compassion for ourselves (and others) as victims of abuse, verbal emotional physical; compassion for the part of ourselves that could easily become more narcissistic, especially living with an N, and often does; compassion for the N, for his pain and confusion and the contorted situations which led him/her to develop. such a sorry coping structure; compassion for this ever-more superficial, individualistic and materialistic society that has produced and conditioned us all.

And hope for the human, caring potential that remains an inherent part of us all. And hope for those (LIKE YOU!) who still have the strength, will, intelligence to chose to develope a more wholesome self.

These are the only things that give our human existence meaning.

This is what breaks my heart and sometimes my spirit. Seeing how damaged my sons are by what they witnessed. And they don't even recognize it as abuse. I fear they will carry this into their own relationships, which will in turn will be destined to fail

Nandy, I, too worry most about how my children are turning out.

My first, a daughter, often shows signs of ego-centrism and selfishness that worry me. As a female, we have quite a strong solidarity and good communication, however.

My teenage son, too, can be short, disrespectful, and downright disrespectful, especially in the way he talks to me. It pains me, as it does you. I've talked to him very clearly - about how I worry that he's picking up that attitude towards women that his father has modelled, that it hurts me to hear it, that he must chose which things to learn and pick up from his parents and which not to.

I have faith that we have both given (and give) enough love, support and boundaries to our children that they will continue to cultivate their more conscientous selves. Mine are turning out ok - sensitive, politically and socially aware, and quite well-adjusted. But I'll never take their 'balance' or good adjustment for granted!

Nanday wrote:
Narcissism = no empathy = no intimacy = marriage doomed to fail.

Sometimes simple words can say everything.

Nanday, I agree about the surviving and not thriving part too. I believe it's relevant to Maslows Heirarchy of Needs. If you don't have the bottom of the pyramid you cannot achieve the higher steps. I think it's only 2 steps you can go. If you're too busy looking after your own safety which is in the 2nd rung, you can't get to the top which is self-actualisation, this is the part where you thrive on your full creative potential, but it's unobtainable in a relationship that is not mutually beneficial as you're too busily occupied with safety and attempting to 'fit in'. Look it up, it's an interesting diagram and fits well in abusive relationships.

I'm sorry to hear of your fears about your sons. What you say is true, but it's wise for you to keep in mind that you recognise and acknowledge it, that means you can do something about it. But maybe they may have successful relationships, at least half of their parentage is 'normal'.

Nick,
I hope this doesnt come accross as too .... sort of like taking over, but reading more deeply, I wonder, you sound more like an exile than an N. In this sense, - you sound so appalled by what you find in yourself and in the world, from which would imply that you have an aspiration to decency, and a sense of inability to bring about that decency, so as a sort of sacrifice, you promise to withdraw, but then, of course there is that perennial longing for connectedness that is part of being human . I may be in the wrong ball park of course, and seeing others through my own filters, but I thought i'd mention in case it may be helpful.
Sometimes exiles can be exiles deep down, but have a lot on N.ishness in response to thier foundational influences, .... these could be any of the other disorders. I am an exile with N. influence because of N. mother, well, she was 'closet N. ', as some profs call it. A friend of mine is exile with a borderline mother, so she also has a lot of borderline traits.
I used to think I was a mirror N. then I discovered it was 'schizoid'.
Theres more, of course, ..........
I think the professionals have gone a long way towards understanding, but havent got it all yet with the exiles, (which they call schizoid). - they havent fully got the aspects of the exile experience, sucha as 'appalled at the world and its immorality and the experience of the 'deluge' everything in danger of being corroded, corrupted etc', which is the influence of the other disorders, but as exiles, we 'see what no one else seems to see', but feel helpless and as a result go into exile, or, also, sometimes find ourselves in an impossible fight.

I'm not a professional, but I've read so much by now, that I believe my opinion is valid.
Anyway, hope this means something to you/ others.
riverx

Do you really think you see what others fail to see? Sure, a good percentage are too afraid to see it, and bury themselves in all the distractions, tv, cellphones, text messaging, etc, etc, that keep them from contemplating the contrasting horror and and beauty life offers, but there are those who do.
Is life a horrible mistake or a great miracle filled with infinite moments for personal growth and happiness? Read man's search for meaning. "The man who has a why in life can bear almost any how."
As for me, rather than focus on all that's wrong with life and all we humans do to screw up ourselves and our planet, I live by this principle of Gandhi's, "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

Will you save the world if you do? Doubtful. But you'll save yourself and perhaps a few others. For me, that is enough.

Nanday wrote:In order for a marriage to succeed, there must be intimacy. In order for there to be intimacy there must be empathy.

Narcissism = no empathy = no intimacy = marriage doomed to fail.

I think this is spot on. Out of all my ex-N's traits, I found her lack of empathy the most difficult to live with. It meant my feelings weren't recognised or understood and everything was twisted around to be about her feelings and what I wasn't doing for her. It results in a lack of self-esteem because slowly my self-worth was chipped away.

Luckily we weren't married but were due to be.