Masochistic Narcissism

Why are narcissists so damn masochistic?

Why do we have to make sure everyone hates us? Why, when the arrogance is dropped, do we demean ourselves at every opportunity? Confidence but no self-esteem. Why do we go through periods of convincing ourselves that we will forever be alone and manipulate that fact to provoke sympathy as a new source of supply? How can we be so oxymoronic as to think we are superlative and yet completely derogatory at the same time, all with the feeling of satisfying the ego? Why are we so afraid of failure that we exaggerate the risks of any situation to convince ourselves that trying is pointless?

Or is it just me?

I need some answers, because it's really starting to annoy me now.

Have you ever heard of Self-Defeating Personality Disorder (aka Masochistic PD)? It's not a formal diagnosis, but I think it's helpful to know that it exists as a pattern of behaviors.

I've witnessed the cycle of self-defeat in several people with various PDs (and in people without it, too, of course). It sucks and is majorly frustrating to see someone waste their potential, going in circles.

Wow, Jo, this is really great post! I mean it in all sincerity. I know you won't believe it or accept it from me but... atta girl!

BlackBeltJo wrote:...cause a narcissist at some point loses their own identity. And so they attempt to also rob others of their own identity...

I believe this happens at a very early age, maybe between the years 1-3, 4-5 at the outside. So early that they never have the time to develope their own unique identity. Furthermore as time passes and they approach adolescence they forget, or lose sight of what was their own unique personality. So willing to bend to parents pressures for attention that by the time they are exposed to "peer pressure" (up a quantum level) they become extremely labile and lost to themselves forever.

So desperate are they that the will adopt any identity that garners the greatest available attention. Captain of the football team and head cheerleader or trenchcoat mafia and slut. Conformity and acceptance or rebelliousness and ostracism... any attention will do.

They aren't seeking personal fulfillment, they are seeking personal fulfillment by proxy and this is just another example of how they are hard-wired for failure.

ccumm36D wrote:

So desperate are they that the will adopt any identity that garners the greatest available attention. Captain of the football team and head cheerleader or trenchcoat mafia and slut. Conformity and acceptance or rebelliousness and ostracism... any attention will do.

You earn Captain of the football team. You don't tell the coach I am a narc and should be captain. Same goes for the Head cheerleader. Sure they could be a narc, probably just a little arrogant, would go with the young age.

Both are generally talent based positions. A narc would have a hard time working that hard to obtain this position.

Dan wrote:...Sure they could be a narc...

nuff said

Clutchology, your questions ultimately lead to one answer. Because the NPD is forever locked in victimhood.

To the NPD they are never responsible for what happens to them. Lack of responsibility then gives only one explanation for their life - that they are at the whim of a series of events and other peoples actions against them during their life and therefore what happens to them is the result of what others have done unto them.

The NPD can never be accountable for their own actions, it's one of the reasons why they live in their own reality, creating it as they live it. Their perceptions of themselves, their actions and of others around them are distorted.

They cannot break free of this victimhood mode. It's part and parcel of their disorder. The fact that they cannot acknowledge their own accountability for their actions plays a very large part in the long term outcome of their relationships and whether they are successful or failures in others areas of their lives.

For the normal person being accountable and responsible is a normal part of emotional maturity, for the NPD that emotional maturity is never reached. They are locked into stunted emotional growth which is why everything that ever happens to them is always everyone's else's fault.

With one of your questions, there's also the issues of attachment and abandonment that come into play as well.

But, there are a number of narcissists who are successful, rich and powerful and stay that way, although many do come 'undone' either by way of getting caught embezzling, insider trading or other high profile white collar crimes, but with these I think their self-esteem is not quite as eroded than the Narcs that never make any type of fame or fortune.

I think if you are really serious about getting out of the bind you find yourself in, start thinking and documenting about things in your life that you previously considered were other people's doing and change the scenarios to make yourself the centre of your own destiny. Give the accountability back to yourself, which is where it should be. Stop considering yourself at the mercy of fate and get a grip and begin to think about ways you can control your own destiny.

To Jo and Mr36D, I also agree the NPD's never formed their own identity (a slight correction to Jo's theory of losing it). I find it hard to believe a child as young as 4 or 5 has a formed identity (as we know it as adults) at that age they are still open too much to nurture as their identity is still in it's infancy.

The NPD has no inner feelings, it's an empty bucket inside. Dark and bleak (as my NPD described himself a number of times) they seek to fill that empty void by constantly bringing others down , in the mistaken belief that the more they pull from others the more fulfilled they will become. But it is an endless and fruitless task. "personal fulfillment by proxy" is a good description. BUT, I don't think this explanation put forward by you guys proffers any answers to Clutchology's questions.

Dan wrote

Both are generally talent based positions. A narc would have a hard time working that hard to obtain this position.

I disagree. It seems to me narcs can be very determined to obtain positions of power, influence, recognition, to get the supply they need!

Lol...

Nevermind.

That was Tony Brown.