Emptiness, and depersonalization

Hi all, probably posted about this before but whatever:

- Supposedly for VNs emptiness/DP is a way for the ego to regulate feelings of shame.

"Psychoanalytical theories coincide in understanding depersonalization (DP) as a disorder of narcissistic self-regulation. DP is described as an ego defense against overwhelming shame resulting in a splitting of an observing ego detached from the experiencing self. In contrast to a behavioral-cognitive theory on DP, which suggests that the catastrophic appraisal of normal transient DP maintains the disorder, psychodynamic approaches stress that DP is an important defensive function for the individual. We examine this psychodynamic aspect more closely as it relates to narcissistic self-regulation and interpersonal behavior in depersonalized patients."

I've had dp/dr on off for a while now, I suspect another cause too but this one seems to fit as well, like it's easier most of the time to just remain empty and distant to yourself rather than face the shame ridden core. Anyone else?

Ubinix800 wrote:Hi all, probably posted about this before but whatever:

- Supposedly for VNs emptiness/DP is a way for the ego to regulate feelings of shame.

I've had dp/dr on off for a while now, I suspect another cause too but this one seems to fit as well, like it's easier most of the time to just remain empty and distant to yourself rather than face the shame ridden core. Anyone else?

Ive not read about any connection between shame and DP / DR. Ive had this a lot as a kid and still have it on and off nowadays, but I cant really find common causes to it - last few times I had it just wandering around town when I went to the grocery store. When I was looking at it a few days ago, it seemed to me like it was quite the opposite of a narcissistic activity, it seemed more like an amplification of the flat nature of experience, in a peculiar way almost a lessenign of positive self-investment.
I think emptiness is a result of an absence of [good] internalized early objects. So a regression to a level of emptiness will naturally lead to an experience of that same emptiness. That inner emptiness might originate in a sort of a nondual reality, so when that emptiness was "formed" when inner and outer werent clearly established, now the inner core of all internal and outside reality is ultimately empty. DP I think can be an attack on certain connections, so a form of fragmentation... but I suppose can be also an awareness of that emptiness... possibly also as a result of having been brought up in an environment where you were supplied physically but not emotionally. So you are in a way an automaton, you can eat and $#%^ but you cant relax; a factor might also be something like insecure to fearful attachment, the basic absence of the good caregiver which leads to an inability to "withdraw" into the good internal caregiver womb. So theres nothing there, theres just emptiness. But its not the good emptiness of nonbeing that is the goal of the death instinct, but In that emptiness there is a formless consciousness that exists before god so to speak. In that way its not at all narcissistic.

Depersonalization/Derealization can stem from neglect or intrusive parenting.

I suppose it may be hard to experience a continuous sense of embodiment if you're lacking interpersonal stimulation when growing up.

But my experience is that excessively intrusive and controlling parenting can lead you to detach from your emotions, sense of groundedness and reality.

It's a way of escaping negative experiences that solidified into an habit (or coping mechanism).