Non-criminal psychopath?

justonemoreperson wrote:

HSS wrote:
Btw... you are always with religious people!!!

They're like a virus.

for me as well. i've been surrounded by religion and religious people my entire life. i think it's caused me to be more fake and also given me some anger since they demand respect for their beliefs but call mine evil.

i keep thinking i've finally received some relief and suddenly i'm sitting in the middle section of a megachurch while my kids get bibles in the mail from relatives. it's just ######6 everywhere. the library, restaurants.... i shouldn't have moved to the south i suppose. it's just ingrained in the blood here. i was close to this guy who blew his brains out in the church we were raised in. maybe when it's my time (old age/illness) i should follow his example.

I don't have much issue with the normal ones; the ones who go to church on Sunday and ignore it the rest of the time. The ones I have issue with are those who feel they need to bang on about it, knock my door to sell me books etc (They don't knock on my door anymore; they walk past.)

The fundamental ones are the virus; they're like parasites, where they need to infect others into believing them to feel validated in their own belief. Forcing ignorance onto emotionally unstable people.

It's hard to reconcile their claim that they do it because of love of neighbour, when their entire conversation is manufactured to get you to the point of accepting their point of view. It's a sales technique, preying on those too stupid or desperate to find an adequate answer to deflect them.

justonemoreperson wrote:Narcissism is a trait of psychopathy, but it's a very different mechanism.

With NPD, the narcissism is used to draw attention, to create a supply that the person needs to feel worth. With psychopathy, the narcissism is a demonstration of how little other people matter. There's no need for the supply.

yes actually there is need for supply.

psychopaths can have narcissistic injuries

maybe dont think of supply as a desperation act but more like the icing on the cake. u cant really manipulate anyone if u have no supply to feed off

Fair point.

saucygirl31 wrote:u cant really manipulate anyone if u have no supply to feed off

Exactly. But when I reflect about my manipulative behaviour, what surprises me is the irrationality of the mechanism, as it's subconscious. On some level, we all experienced that everything is double-faced, and that we can obtain the best or the worst from everything. It depends on us, on our reaction. And yet we manipulate to condition external events, as if they have the power to determine our mood.

Imo manipulation comes from our forgetfulness of the ambiguous nature of life. That forgetfulness creates a sort of addiction to external things, so that you assume that something is good or bad in itself, or good/bad for yourself.
If we play with the cards that we get without manipulating, it would be perhaps the same, or a positive changing will occur (because sometimes we misunderstand our needs).

when my therapists calls me manipulative i mostly don't know what shes referring to because i too do it without realizing.

but would not manipulating something be more appropriate? not sure. if we let nature take its course which i think you are suggesting then we are at the mercy of the game. we are bystanders in the game of life.

remember that not all manipulation is necessarily bad!

some of it is literally a survival mechanism

also is an addiction to external things so bad? maybe for someone w npd who has an unstable core it would be best to channel that powers inward but the vast majority of goodies in life come from external? we can only do so much to satisfy our needs alone?

what if he lives in a glass house? is that really helping to stay there or does he need feedback from external in order to make adjustments? or is he so far ###$ that it doesnt matter lol

I think everyone is manipulative in their own favor to get an edge in the world. You are honestly putting yourself at a disadvantage if your not. looking past that I have always found it I interesting to think past the terminology. For instance use the word influence instead of manipulate, or at what point does something stop being spontaneous and become impulsive. Is it really callous if the person just doesn’t give a fk, who makes up the rules on what we should and shouldn’t care about and why have I not been given a copy? That concludes today’s episode of deep thoughts with yours truly. Take care

Yeah, everyone manipulates and it's not all bad. But, there's a line to cross.

What most people do is gauge their manipulation so as not to contravene the rights and feelings of the other person.

saucygirl31 wrote:but would not manipulating something be more appropriate? not sure. if we let nature take its course which i think you are suggesting then we are at the mercy of the game. we are bystanders in the game of life.

My post wasn't intended to be a suggestion: decreasing manipulation is just a personal goal. If it's appropriate for everyone, I am not able to say.

Manipulation works like a crutch, too. When we use a crutch, at the beginning we need it a lot, then it decreases. By exaggerating its use, we don't strengthen ourselves and don't know if we are ready to walk; by stopping too early, we fall down. The point is equilibrium.
That aside, if it's appropriate depends on our goals, our skills, and on how much you value your emotional well-being compared to other goals. Imo, manipulation is insidious. It has pros and cons, but we are conscious of pros only. So, I would try to notice what are the cons of my manipulation: cons for myself, not for others. For example, check if you lost friends, relationships, opportunities on a long term period, if you don't let yourself involve in relationships but partially it contrasts with a different wish, if the mechanism becomes a compulsion, if it works as a flight from painful emotions, if you are controlled by what you want to get, or by manipulation itself.

For the other point, we wouldn't be at the mercy of the game. We would still plan life and try to reach our goals by acting, doing choices, solving problems, fighting, communicating, improving skills,... But we wouldn't hide/change cards; clearly it's possible at the condition that our goal isn't a pretense dominating us. But manipulation could increase the risk that it becomes obsessive, it's a circle.
That written yes, we would lose part of our control on outside, and it would correspond to the amount of strength gained for ourselves 'though.

However: when you write about nature taking its course, or living in a glass house, it seems that in your mind a not manipulative existence lacks the possibilities to direct life and to connect. If it's that way (not sure), wouldn't it help to discuss it with your doc, to find further ways to address life? You could still manipulate, just you would have further options. You are socially very skilled, so my doubt is about the number of social strategies, not about your ability with them.

remember that not all manipulation is necessarily bad!

some of it is literally a survival mechanism

yeah, but I would like it's conscious. As a subconscious mechanism, it interprets as a danger events that aren't a risk since I was a toddle...

also is an addiction to external things so bad? maybe for someone w npd who has an unstable core it would be best to channel that powers inward but the vast majority of goodies in life come from external? we can only do so much to satisfy our needs alone?

Addiction doesn't mean that you get pleasures or goodies, but that you are desperate without. So... no need, no addiction. I like chocolate and eat it, but if I can't, I enjoy my life the same. A chocolate-addicted doesn't want anything but his chocolate, he loses the general vision and the taste for other wonderful things, that lose attractiveness.

HSS wrote:However: when you write about nature taking its course, or living in a glass house, it seems that in your mind a not manipulative existence lacks the possibilities to direct life and to connect. If it's that way (not sure), wouldn't it help to discuss it with your doc, to find further ways to address life? You could still manipulate, just you would have further options. You are socially very skilled, so my doubt is about the number of social strategies, not about your ability with them.

thats interesting

anyway my therapist says im treatment resistant (to talk therapy??), so maybe ive run the gamut