Rejected

justonemoreperson wrote:Jabbing someone in the chest because you want to be included is like ######6 someone to make them a virgin.

This belongs on a Hallmark card

Akuma; I remember reading you say that you have social anxiety or had it in the past. I’ve had the same thing in certain social settings and I generally feel the same towards most people. Have you ever thought about how this dynamic plays out for you? Social anxiety would suggest to me the there is a fear of rejection or a fear of failure or a level of shame causing this if we didn’t care at all that type of anxiety wouldn’t exist. Also outwardly seeing people in a way that you don’t care about them do you think that is actually a defensive position to avoid feeling rejection at all, for instance if you don’t care about anyone they can’t hurt you either. It’s an interesting dynamic

Esmoke wrote:Akuma; I remember reading you say that you have social anxiety or had it in the past. I’ve had the same thing in certain social settings and I generally feel the same towards most people. Have you ever thought about how this dynamic plays out for you? Social anxiety would suggest to me the there is a fear of rejection or a fear of failure or a level of shame causing this if we didn’t care at all that type of anxiety wouldn’t exist. Also outwardly seeing people in a way that you don’t care about them do you think that is actually a defensive position to avoid feeling rejection at all, for instance if you don’t care about anyone they can’t hurt you either. It’s an interesting dynamic

I dont think Ive said recently that I have social phobia. I think I said something about my paranoia having reduced through my therapy.
In any event, eventhough there has been a time in the past where I intentionally and consciously chose to disconnect from people in a way because I had to deal with a lot of them, was very unstable and was also quite phobic, I dont think the broadness of my overall attitude can be explained by that. You might recall I have a combination of SPD and NPD, or a dissociative layer on as self-disorder, depending on how you look at it - so one aspect is definitely that I simply dont feel emotions, so all the people that base a lot of their activity on emotion already are out for me. Also, most people seem to value being somebody extremely, as a schizoid, you can either live very well with or prefer being nobody, as its symbolizing potential rather than being stuck. So the neurotic-level need to comply to internal parental imagos, questions of remorse, guilt, shame etc, are basically out of the picture - you could wonder if they never developed or got dissociated but that might be a technical question. In addition, paradoxically people with narcissistic disorders are often more direct and more honest than people with neurotic disorders, and I absolutely despise liars and timewasters. So a lot of the usual suspects in neurotic-land with their endless talking about subjects that ultimately have no practical usage, except for stabilizing their complicated self-images or giving them something to identify with is at best irrelevant and at worst utterly disgusting for me.
I've also been brought up by a very withdrawn grandmother basically forcing me into an internal world and by a mother repeatedly thinking I'm her husband/father/psychologist-replacement-container and a lot of people with their wish to "share" seem to just expect you to want to be their trashbin. ###$ them I say let them choke on their crap, I'll be way over there doing something else.
There are other factors, too of course, but they are more distinctly connected with having PDs.
Anyhow, since you find it "interesting": the way how a orientation away from the outside comes to be can be looked at in a different way, too. We can look at how Fairbairn put it a long time agofor example, who theorized that its love itself that gets perceived as bad or as destructive and therefore either libidinal investment is withdrawn from the object world or the fear of libido becomes so big that an internal world of narcissistic withdrawal gets replaced by an internal deadness.

Fairbairn - A Revised Psychopathology of The psychoses And Neuroses wrote:if it seems a terrible thing for an individual
to destroy his object by hate, it seems a much more terrible thing for him to
destroy his object by love. It is the great tragedy of the schizoid individual
that his love seems to destroy; and it is because his love seems so destructive
that he experiences such difficulty in directing libido towards objects in outer
reality. He becomes afraid to love; and therefore he erects barriers between
his objects and himself. He tends both to keep his objects at a distance and to
make himself remote from them. He rejects his objects; and at the same time he
withdraws libido from them. This withdrawal of libido may be carried to all
lengths. It may be carried to a point at which all emotional and physical
contacts with other persons are renounced; and it may even go so far that all
libidinal links with outer reality are surrendered,

This again rings true for me in several ways much more than a Pavlovian interpretation of getting burned and withdrawing as here there is an additional layer of problems due to the unity of the hot plate and the hand.

justonemoreperson wrote:Ultimately, people want to be noticed and valued, as it confirms their choices and lifestyle.

If you get overly connected to rejection events, it probably stems from a lack of confidence in your own decisions, so you require inclusion from others for confirmation, and see it as a personal slight when that doesn't happen.

@Manners: it would probably be useful to examine how you're processing the rejection at the time, before you kick off, to try to identify what you're feeling. Is it hurt, anger, confusion?

Confrontation is giving you a mechanism to deal with the event, while distracting from the underlying cause. You're effectively blaming the one excluding you, rather than trying to work out why it's so important to you in the first place.

Jabbing someone in the chest because you want to be included is like ######6 someone to make them a virgin.

Yeah I don't think rational sometimes I just act impulsive at that moment.

Although Jomp is making a good point, simultaneously, I admire someone who is able to go straight to the source of their frustration and confront them.

I guess I’m of the belief that PDs or not we are still human beings and need the same things any other human needs. Attentionclose bonds with other people even if those desires are hidden from us I believe they are still there and getting to them isn’t impossible

Esmoke wrote:I guess I’m of the belief that PDs or not we are still human beings and need the same things any other human needs. Attentionclose bonds with other people even if those desires are hidden from us I believe they are still there and getting to them isn’t impossible

Well if youre aware (?) that this is important to you, I guess you already made the first step.

Esmoke wrote:I guess I’m of the belief that PDs or not we are still human beings and need the same things any other human needs. Attentionclose bonds with other people even if those desires are hidden from us I believe they are still there and getting to them isn’t impossible

That's probably true for most. The problem is that the mechanism for those needs requires structure and understanding, which are developed as part of growing up. A child sees a parent showing how an emotional bond works and the child copies.

So they learn how to express emotion and how the interaction, or social contract, works. If you haven't ever experienced that, then the child won't understand how to arrive at that outcome, what to expect, how to deal with disappointment, generate a constructive share of responsibility and personal rights and boundaries etc.

For someone with a PD who needs those things, you have to teach them, as you would a child, how they work.

The hardest part is relieving suspicion. We expect everyone to do everything for themselves, so when someone does something caring for us and we're not used to it, the reaction is "What are they trying to get out of this?" If you've not had the experience of someone shoing you compassion etc without strings, you'll not expect it to happen. Why would it?

ViniStonemoss wrote:Although Jomp is making a good point, simultaneously, I admire someone who is able to go straight to the source of their frustration and confront them.

It's not the source though; it's a series of events that have been created based on a mis-direction of frustration.

Hypthetically, as I don't know the details of what's happening, if you react to someone harshly for not inviting you to an event because you perceive a slight where none was intended, then it's going to exaggerate the problem, creating a problem that would never have existed if the frustration was aimed in the right direction.

It's more of an avoidant or CNPD thing. I take rejection poorly because I can't take other people confirming flaws or issues in myself, I am that emotionally fragile. I think I remember reading somewhere that "avoidants are afraid to confide in others out of fear it may confirm their negative self-image" and it's probably the same as CNPD, "I tend to avoid rejection at all costs".

It's the same as if someone says something nasty about you but "you know their right", your self-esteem takes a hit, then there's a lot of shame and passive-aggression. I also have some abandonment fears (Dr. Grande on YouTube made a good video on VN) like if someone was supposed to be somewhere when I am meeting up with them, and they don't show I personalize it and think it may be due to me, self-esteem hit, it's why I only go places where I know someone would be first. At one point I thought I developed some mild paranoia as a way to mentally take the blame or hurt off myself.