Lack of Remorse for Suicide

I wonder who you are referring to by "Moderators who had a certain background knowledge and had set up standard policies to deal with different kind of posts" ?

Echinacea and realityhere f.e.

All I remember are moderators who gaslighted members on family & relationship forums while at the same time partook in the systematic gratuitous bullying of newcomers here (or rite of passage if you feel euphemistically inclined).

You perhaps knew how to pull their strings? Hats off to you, but, surely you must also know, at least on some rational level, that not all enablers=good and not all people who challenge you=bad.

No idea what youre on about? I'm never in the SOFF forum, I often report posts though that end up there because they belong there. Only thing that xdude f.e. was saying, is that over in the SOFF forum a lot of the content is about trying to get the members to realize that the bad relationships they are in is not something imposed from the outside, but their own doing and only they can fix that. I can see how someone with a huge pull towards projection will see this as gaslighting though.

Manners73 wrote:Maybe he meant remorse for failing.

Manners73 wrote:Maybe he meant remorse for failing.

To me, it seems clear that the doctor was expecting some form of remorse for putting his family through the ordeal of his attempted suicide.

It's important because it speaks to the state of mind of the person doing it. With people who attempt suicide for attention, there is often a period of almost euphoria afterwards. I forget the article I was reading about this, but from memory it was a combination of attention gathering and "duper's delight" at having the plan "work."

People who generally kill themselves have very little self-worth, and so having "failed again" would likely feel remorse because they feel useless under normal circumstances and this is another demonstration of how they constantly let people down.

DaturaInnoxia wrote:That in my mind is a double standard which I called "reverse abuse"

But I have seen none of this in Ken's posts so far ...

I keep intending on going back to attempting a "live and let live" way of being (because it's a goal in my general life too - same with minding my business), but it's slow going.

I'm just hoping you know that you don't need to participate to collective "rituals" to be seen or liked (because I know you understand the intricacies of ethics)

Akuma wrote:Echinacea and realityhere f.e.

If I remember correctly, Echinacea had left England with kids for a nordic country to live with a man she knew little about, with such a tightly knit relationship with his mother, that she did not find her place (if I remember correctly). She sounded really confused at the time, yet could hardly stand any objection.

As for RealityHere, she would recite various sources, but this knowledge did not translate into anything introspective, and she bizarrely posted as if coming from a place of wisdom further above, yet never provided any evidence of the challenges she had overcome.

I don't mean to sound harsh, we all have crooked trajectories. It's just nice when moderators have some modicum of grasp over their own issues (are also able to stand up elegantly when there is dispute). I have seen my fair share of needless put downs, whose target were outsiders as well as pwNPD in equal share.

Akuma wrote: Only thing that xdude f.e. was saying, is that over in the SOFF forum a lot of the content is about trying to get the members to realize that the bad relationships they are in is not something imposed from the outside, but their own doing and only they can fix that. I can see how someone with a huge pull towards projection will see this as gaslighting though.

Of course, it is nice to help family members, partners realize how they may contribute to fuel a relation's dysfunction. But leading them to believe that they are solely responsible or prompting them to comply to harmful family dynamics is gaslighting.

I can see why one would equate people who do their bidding with good moderation but I am curious whether you conceive that people who do your bidding don't necessarily care about you as much as they may be caught in their own circular dynamics of gaining validation at all cost, including the cost of fairness.

@Datura

I have always been curious about those rituals, as it was a ASPD forum tradition. What purpose do they serve? Perhaps you know more than I do?

What the hell ViniStoneMoss?

I find this arrogant or like you walked in with an axe to grind.
You're normally laid back and cordial.

I explained "What??"

Now, did you read my reply enough to see where I acknowledged, that my:

DaturaInnoxia wrote:...choice to use the word "abuse" and reaction to this specific post may have been more of an over reaction to the implied morality of suicide in combination with the other (what I felt were) double-standard complaining posts.

^
I thought that saying I over reacted and why explained:

ViniStonemoss wrote:But I have seen none of this in Ken's posts so far ...

I'm not going to explain it any further.

ViniStonemoss wrote:I'm just hoping you know that you don't need to participate to collective "rituals" to be seen or liked (because I know you understand the intricacies of ethics)

Lol, Really?


Yes, I know I understand all sorts of "intricacies" since I've been on this site whether I show it or not.

You don't (nor does anyone else here) have a leg to stand on to be talking to me about "ethics" or casting judgement on my behavior.

And, I'm sure you know that starting a dialogue in this manner isn't exactly a way to get someone to listen to what you're telling them, so you should have bothered.


Also, "I'm hoping you know," not only is this talking down to me, but you've been gone a while - and you're still going off old dialogues, because there are very few people on this site who I give a flying ###$ if they like me or not.

I'm fully aware that people here aren't "friend" types and playing games half the time.
There is no being "liked" by most
- just ignoring or different types of mind ###$.

I enjoy creatively expressing myself, and some of the interactions that happen on this website as a result (and a few people who just make me happy to have around from time to time), but it's just parallel play for the most part.

* Please describe clearly how I'm participating in "collective "rituals" and I may address it.

Just because you don't understand the motives behind what I do, doesn't mean I'm "participating in collective 'rituals'"

And please be aware that sitting around knowing about what goes on (and that it has been everywhere) is participation by proxy.

Pots calling the kettle black.
I'm getting so tired of it.

-- Tue May 05, 2020 1:53 am --

ViniStonemoss wrote:@Datura

I have always been curious about those rituals, as it was a ASPD forum tradition. What purpose do they serve? Perhaps you know more than I do?

Naw, I'm certain I don't

ViniStonemoss wrote:If I remember correctly, Echinacea had left England with kids for a nordic country to live with a man she knew little about, with such a tightly knit relationship with his mother, that she did not find her place (if I remember correctly). She sounded really confused at the time, yet could hardly stand any objection.

As for RealityHere, she would recite various sources, but this knowledge did not translate into anything introspective, and she bizarrely posted as if coming from a place of wisdom further above, yet never provided any evidence of the challenges she had overcome.

I don't mean to sound harsh, we all have crooked trajectories. It's just nice when moderators have some modicum of grasp over their own issues (are also able to stand up elegantly when there is dispute). I have seen my fair share of needless put downs, whose target were outsiders as well as pwNPD in equal share.

Which might or might not be so, but which also has nothing to do with the improvement back then the NPD forum saw when they were moderating. Also a single person doesnt have the importance or power here to judge who can be a moderator and who cant; moderators are selected as a team effort after a prolonged discussion of all the staff.

Of course, it is nice to help family members, partners realize how they may contribute to fuel a relation's dysfunction. But leading them to believe that they are solely responsible or prompting them to comply to harmful family dynamics is gaslighting.

I assume you got triggered by some specific stuff that happened, but as I said I am not active over there. Ive had some private convos with some of the mods over different things including certain aspects of our therapies and that experience was mostly positive.

I can see why one would equate people who do their bidding with good moderation but I am curious whether you conceive that people who do your bidding don't necessarily care about you as much as they may be caught in their own circular dynamics of gaining validation at all cost, including the cost of fairness.

The world you live in must be even more crappy than mine.

The post started as a simple question a member asked. It has gone off topic. Please stay on topic. Thanks.

quietgirl

Hi Quietgirl,

It's nice to see you here. I have no intention to disrespect you or undermine your authority, but I am also afraid that if I don't address Datura & Akuma's posts, the conversation will rest on a sour note, leading to further misunderstandings in other threads.

DaturaInnoxia wrote:Now, did you read my reply enough to see where I acknowledged

I did not, lol! Sometimes I just comb through. But I really appreciate you pointing that out to me again, and I'm taking note this time.

DaturaInnoxia wrote:Please describe clearly how I'm participating in "collective "rituals" and I may address it.

.

I don't know that you do, hence my asking (however presumptuously). But to avoid digging this tangent, I'm happy to start a thread on the topic, from a different perspective.

You're normally laid back and cordial.

Yet, same as you, only human. I'm hoping that you can find it in you to forgive the both of us.

(Not that I want to coerce you into forgiveness, but if you are to forgive yourself for overreacting, I'm hoping cavalierly, that you can forgive me the same faux pas)

Akuma wrote:moderators are selected as a team effort after a prolonged discussion of all the staff.

Team effort does not guarantee success. Some moderators are great, have been through a lot, some have a dark side, that the power conferred to them only magnifies.

Akuma wrote:I assume you got triggered by some specific stuff that happened, but as I said I am not active over there. Ive had some private convos with some of the mods over different things including certain aspects of our therapies and that experience was mostly positive.

Truthfully, I am just annoyed if older members get preferential treatment, because moderators are in a similar dynamic with them as in their family of origin: it's basic transference, thus avoidable. I can't help being annoyed when newcomers who may have plenty of reason to use this forum, such as self aware pwNPD or people with narcissistic traits are being driven off by moderators taking a side. As mentioned in a previous thread, I find every struggle relevant.

Hopefully, this is all in the past...

Back on topic,

KenSurvivorofHell wrote:The doctors in charge of me in the psych ward wrote on my file that I tried to commit suicide but "showed no remorse afterwards" which struck me as something odd.

I wonder if they mixed up regrets with remorse. Suicide in pwNPD can be the ultimate recourse to control the narrative. If your goal is such, then it makes sense that you would not feel a lot of regrets ... or remorse.