Lack of Remorse for Suicide

ViniStonemoss wrote:Hi Quietgirl,

It's nice to see you here. I have no intention to disrespect you or undermine your authority, but I am also afraid that if I don't address Datura & Akuma's posts, the conversation will rest on a sour note, leading to further misunderstandings in other threads.

Thank you ViniStonemoss, for trying not to have things end on a sour note. I ask that anything discussed further that is off topic in this thread, be taken up in another thread (where it fits accordingly). Thanks.

quietgirl

justonemoreperson wrote:There's no remorse, because the intention was to get attention. Objective achieved.

I think that there is nothing wrong if someone needs attention. It's a human, natural need. But I agree that some methods to get it are distorted and/or dangerous.

From a general pov, when people look for attention indirectly, without an open communication, their objective is an artificially increased self-esteem; others' attention is just a way to achieve it.

If you make sure that others' attention seems "unsolicited" to you, you can forget the maneuvers you previously did to get this attention, you can lie to yourself, and think that you are great... it's easier to improve your “self-esteem” this way.

On the opposite, someone who really needs attention could ask it: he will get attention, if the other person is friendly, but his self-esteem won't increase enough.

Unfortunately, this kind of self-esteem doesn't last forever - they are cyclic processes. There is an insecure core in these maneuvers, and illusions are directed both to the other one and to oneself. Something to think about imo.

@quietgirl: I consider this isn't off-topic and I thought it's interesting; but I can't be sure, if I misjudged you can move it in another thread clearly... and sorry.

HSS wrote:@quietgirl: I consider this isn't off-topic and I thought it's interesting; but I can't be sure, if I misjudged you can move it in another thread clearly... and sorry.

It is interesting to me as well. It's fine to post here like you just did.

quietgirl

HSS wrote:
Unfortunately, this kind of self-esteem doesn't last forever - they are cyclic processes. There is an insecure core in these maneuvers, and illusions are directed both to the other one and to oneself. Something to think about imo.

While I agree that it's cyclic, I think using an attempted suicide to get attention and raise self-esteem is self-defeating. You may get additional attention and sympathy, but you've now become a "vulnerable person" in other people's minds.

Whether they say it or not, you'll be treated with caution, not be shown potential opportunities, for fear that "it might be too much." Rather than an equal, you'll be relegated to someone who needs to be looked after.

In social terms you've become less. And rightly so, to be fair. If you've had to try to kill yourself to make a point, then you're clearly useless at communication and problem solving. Who would be comfortable being a genuine friend to someone who shows so little regard for the thoughts of others that they'd put them in that position for their own desperate needs?

Your friends become carers. It's almost guaranteed that years later you'll always be remembered for being that person who tried to kill themselves. Not a great move to raise self-esteem. So, either do it properly or learn how to communicate more effectively.

-- 06 May 2020, 07:08 --

quietgirl2538 wrote:
Thank you ViniStonemoss, for trying not to have things end on a sour note. I ask that anything discussed further that is off topic in this thread, be taken up in another thread (where it fits accordingly). Thanks.

quietgirl

Any news on the AsPD forum? We've all been very good boys and girls; surly it's time for a treat?

KenSurvivorofHell wrote:Is that a sign of a cluster B disorder like ASPD or NPD? Please discuss?

How do normal non-cluster B individuals react when they recover from a suicide act?

Ive asked my therapist and yes, remorse for suicide can happen in neurotic-level patients. Remorse [therefore] is also used as an indicator for a neurotic-level event in comparison to a narcissistic/borderline (read structural-damage) level event according to him.

justonemoreperson wrote:Any news on the AsPD forum? We've all been very good boys and girls; surly it's time for a treat?

justonemoreperson, no news. Same as before.

Akuma wrote:

KenSurvivorofHell wrote:Is that a sign of a cluster B disorder like ASPD or NPD? Please discuss?

How do normal non-cluster B individuals react when they recover from a suicide act?

Ive asked my therapist and yes, remorse for suicide can happen in neurotic-level patients. Remorse [therefore] is also used as an indicator for a neurotic-level event in comparison to a narcissistic/borderline (read structural-damage) level event according to him.

I think this is the answer I was looking for. Thanks Akuma.

Btw welcome back @Vini, glad to read you again

justonemoreperson wrote:

HSS wrote:
Unfortunately, this kind of self-esteem doesn't last forever - they are cyclic processes. There is an insecure core in these maneuvers, and illusions are directed both to the other one and to oneself. Something to think about imo.

While I agree that it's cyclic, I think using an attempted suicide to get attention and raise self-esteem is self-defeating. You may get additional attention and sympathy, but you've now become a "vulnerable person" in other people's minds.

Whether they say it or not, you'll be treated with caution, not be shown potential opportunities, for fear that "it might be too much." Rather than an equal, you'll be relegated to someone who needs to be looked after.

In social terms you've become less. And rightly so, to be fair. If you've had to try to kill yourself to make a point, then you're clearly useless at communication and problem solving. Who would be comfortable being a genuine friend to someone who shows so little regard for the thoughts of others that they'd put them in that position for their own desperate needs?

Your friends become carers. It's almost guaranteed that years later you'll always be remembered for being that person who tried to kill themselves. Not a great move to raise self-esteem. So, either do it properly or learn how to communicate more effectively.

-- 06 May 2020, 07:08 --

quietgirl2538 wrote:
Thank you ViniStonemoss, for trying not to have things end on a sour note. I ask that anything discussed further that is off topic in this thread, be taken up in another thread (where it fits accordingly). Thanks.

quietgirl

Any news on the AsPD forum? We've all been very good boys and girls; surly it's time for a treat?

Honestly, many of the things pwPD’s do are self defeating and illogical. I doubt they think that deeply about it also. If you no self esteem and feel completely worthless someone showing you alittle compassion for attempting to kill yourself might make you feel like someone cares about you. It doesn’t make sense in reality but in a very warped world view it may to the person.

My thoughts weren't strictly about suicide, they were about “indirect ways to get attention”.
However: our self-esteem depends on how much coherent we are with our values.
If you value strength, your self-esteem is measured on your strength and therefore an attempted suicide isn't a good idea.
If you value being liked, cared about, an attempted suicide could be a distorted way to improve your self-esteem - with you possibly misunderstanding others' reactions towards your act. I suspect that this second type of person judges himself as socially inadequate because of some subconscious guilt complex. Attention and care, following the attempted suicide, could repair that feeling temporarily.

"Learn how to communicate more effectively"... not so easy.
As someone that isn't that good at communication, I guess that the first step is to realize that it's a choice. I don't take responsibility for failing in communication process. I justify me closing the communication because of some temperamental or behavioral traits in someone else. I often live it as something unavoidable, not as a choice, depending on my willing. It's wrong, but I think that way. I guess that the first step is to recognize that it's in my hands.