NPD vs BPD rage

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:

number230000 wrote:

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:Can someone tell me what the difference is between a Borderline and a Narcissist rage? I know they can look similar but how would you distinguish whether it’s coming from a BP or NP ? Also who would win in a fight? A nasty narc or a bad ass borderline?

NPD experience rage when humiliated and BPD when abandoned.

The NPD has superficial charm and cool calculation. He can scheme and get away with it, and if caught, will talk his way out of trouble. The BPD is impulsive so will throw the first punch in a fit of fury. His temporary insanity will allow him to escape punishment by going to the mental hospital.

Do you think borderlines react this way over humiliation as well? I feel like if someone humiliates sometimes I’ll feel sad and other times I’ll act out in rage. But I definitely tend to retreat or run away when I feel like the world is against me. Abandonment on the other hand brings about a HUGE amount of emotions I cannot truly understand.

You've experienced abandonment before? Could you describe those emotions and the thoughts you are having?

Also, your point about humiliation... nobody likes that, but you say the emotions are different, is that correct? more understandable?

AProphet wrote:
You've experienced abandonment before? Could you describe those emotions and the thoughts you are having?

Also, your point about humiliation... nobody likes that, but you say the emotions are different, is that correct? more understandable?

Abandonment feels like the ultimate betrayal. It feels as though someone has just completely and utterly deserted you and left you to death basically. When I feel abandoned, there is always this emptiness in my chest and feeling of impending doom... I think this also has a lot to do with the fact that borderlines have no sense of self.

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:

AProphet wrote:
You've experienced abandonment before? Could you describe those emotions and the thoughts you are having?

Also, your point about humiliation... nobody likes that, but you say the emotions are different, is that correct? more understandable?

Abandonment feels like the ultimate betrayal. It feels as though someone has just completely and utterly deserted you and left you to death basically. When I feel abandoned, there is always this emptiness in my chest and feeling of impending doom... I think this also has a lot to do with the fact that borderlines have no sense of self.

Wow.

Ok then. To me humiliation was more like a physiological reaction than a feeling. Paralyzing, painfull thoughts of the situation, breaking focus all the time, see it in dreams over and over replaying the situation and being paralyzed and acting out in pain. What differences, similarities can you see? Maybe any other thoughts?

I can undestand why you point at the relationship with the self, as the root of the problem, but I cant say whether that relationship is of similar character as NPD.

AProphet wrote:

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:

AProphet wrote:
You've experienced abandonment before? Could you describe those emotions and the thoughts you are having?

Also, your point about humiliation... nobody likes that, but you say the emotions are different, is that correct? more understandable?

Abandonment feels like the ultimate betrayal. It feels as though someone has just completely and utterly deserted you and left you to death basically. When I feel abandoned, there is always this emptiness in my chest and feeling of impending doom... I think this also has a lot to do with the fact that borderlines have no sense of self.

Wow.

Ok then. To me humiliation was more like a physiological reaction than a feeling. Paralyzing, painfull thoughts of the situation, breaking focus all the time, see it in dreams over and over replaying the situation and being paralyzed and acting out in pain. What differences, similarities can you see? Maybe any other thoughts?

I can undestand why you point at the relationship with the self, as the root of the problem, but I cant say whether that relationship is of similar character as NPD.

I think if you replace “humiliation” with “abandonment” for Borderlines then our experiences are the same... just for different reasons. However what I will say is that with my BPD it’s more of a desperation to cling onto another person to “define” me... but then also rejecting people because I feel like they’re lying to me if they tell me they love or care for me. Abandonment also tends to arise a sense of guilt... I always feel as though the connection between me and another person cannot be severed or else I’ll feel guilty or take blame for the relationship going wrong. I also noticed that my sense of empathy for other people usually tends to be intense if I see them being abandoned or hurt. I’ve had some really abusive relationships and have gone out of my way to expose these people only later to feel extreme guilt for the idea that I could have caused them pain or caused other people to disown them. And then it cycles again to idealizing and then devaluing the person.

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:

number230000 wrote:

sickofbeinginvalid wrote:Can someone tell me what the difference is between a Borderline and a Narcissist rage? I know they can look similar but how would you distinguish whether it’s coming from a BP or NP ? Also who would win in a fight? A nasty narc or a bad ass borderline?

NPD experience rage when humiliated and BPD when abandoned.

The NPD has superficial charm and cool calculation. He can scheme and get away with it, and if caught, will talk his way out of trouble. The BPD is impulsive so will throw the first punch in a fit of fury. His temporary insanity will allow him to escape punishment by going to the mental hospital.

Do you think borderlines react this way over humiliation as well?

As a rule nobody likes being humiliated and all PD have self-esteem issues, even more so for borderlines, so they probably rage at humiliation too if they are not in a masochistic/submissive mood, only they fear abandonment even more.

It's possible to internalize the rage instead of acting it out, so it might go unnoticed, perhaps even by the person experiencing it.

number230000 wrote:It's possible to internalize the rage instead of acting it out, so it might go unnoticed, perhaps even by the person experiencing it.

source or details? Your right I think, I did it myself on a occasion or two. Not everytime it makes you lash out.

AProphet wrote:

number230000 wrote:It's possible to internalize the rage instead of acting it out, so it might go unnoticed, perhaps even by the person experiencing it.

source or details? Your right I think, I did it myself on a occasion or two. Not everytime it makes you lash out.

I admit there's not much credible results online for "internalized rage". I believe it's because by definition "rage" is externalized: as in violent, uncontrollable anger. There are some nonetheless, such as this one:

http://benz.nchu.edu.tw/~intergrams/intergrams/071-072/071-072-lin.pdf wrote:According to Kohut, “[n]arcissistic rage enslaves the ego and allows it to function only as its tool and rationalizer” (1972: 387). Glen’s internalized rage has become the predominant urge in his relationship with others, so that he is in effect controlled by his explosive inner anger

Dr. Michael Stone (again), also has a category of murderer with "smoldering rage" who kill when the rage is ignited, such as Charles Whitman the Texas University Clock-tower Sniper of 1966. As a matter of fact, in the Most Evil episode about him there's a discussion about the possible link between his actions and BPD.

number230000 wrote:

AProphet wrote:

number230000 wrote:It's possible to internalize the rage instead of acting it out, so it might go unnoticed, perhaps even by the person experiencing it.

source or details? Your right I think, I did it myself on a occasion or two. Not everytime it makes you lash out.

I admit there's not much credible results online for "internalized rage". I believe it's because by definition "rage" is externalized: as in violent, uncontrollable anger. There are some nonetheless, such as this one:

http://benz.nchu.edu.tw/~intergrams/intergrams/071-072/071-072-lin.pdf wrote:According to Kohut, “[n]arcissistic rage enslaves the ego and allows it to function only as its tool and rationalizer” (1972: 387). Glen’s internalized rage has become the predominant urge in his relationship with others, so that he is in effect controlled by his explosive inner anger

Dr. Michael Stone (again), also has a category of murderer with "smoldering rage" who kill when the rage is ignited, such as Charles Whitman the Texas University Clock-tower Sniper of 1966. As a matter of fact, in the Most Evil episode about him there's a discussion about the possible link between his actions and BPD.

Yes, we ment internalized "rage", for lack of a better term. How I experienced it was just painfull thoughts and acting out in pain, as reaction to narcissistic injury.

I don’t know the technical meanings of different types of rage I have experienced it many times in my life, I’ve had both situations where I felt it intensely but did not act on it and had the feeling eat me alive, and had situations where I could not think properly and could not control my reaction. I would compare it to having to vomit, you know it’s coming and that you can’t stop it but you just hope you can make it to the toilet first. I would have to guess that rage is something that lies beneath the surface and when something triggers it instead of having a proper response of anger or irritation the flood gates open and it all spills out. It probably has to already exist inside the person to some degree before any reason or cause even exists