Empathy is narcissism

ZeroZ wrote:Why does “Donna” deserve empathy, what makes her special, why should I even care about her. Empathy is a self serving trait same as any other narcissistic feature, it make the person feel special by proxy. ‘If every other human is special and a gift than so am I’

She doesn't deserve empathy and you're not under obligation to show her any.

I know this subject has been done to death, but empathy only serves the person showing it. It's based on a fear that it could be happening to you, and so you show the behaviour you'd want to have in return.

Your empathy doesn't do anything for Donna, whether you have it or not.

People give to charities, not because they care about pot-bellied brown babies eating flies, it's because they care that they're watching it on TV while they're stuffing their faces with KFC, and so they throw cash at the TV and yell, "Make it stop."

Next Wednesday, when the advert isn't on the TV, the starving kids will still be starving, but it's not in your face now, so who gives a s***?

Akuma wrote:Should I ask what this is really about?
I mean unless you caught a case of the covertunsuritis I'm pretty sure you are aware that nobody cares about if you show "empathy" to random people or not. and random people also won't reject you for not being "empathetic" with them, because they're random people and dont know you or care about you. Most of what you are writing here sounds like its going on in yourself. What made you so depressed anyways, you were much less negative a few years ago?

Quite the opposite actually, I think I’m just coming to terms with who I really am and it’s ok not to be like everyone else. This isn’t all about empathy obviously. The depression, I couldn’t begin to tell you, it’s replaced an anxiety disorder apparently because I’m off meds for that and hardly ever get anxiety anymore so that’s nice but the depression seems to be causing more negative thoughts but they are my thoughts so I accept them as being a part of who I am.

Covert seems to be struggling with the idea he feels rejected, I feel abit of freedom about it all.

Such a typical narcissistic thing to do — flip a concept on its head and claim it to be the exact equal of its opposite. I wonder why we truly tend towards doing that.

Empathy is the social lubricant — it also allows you to feel with others, to recognize that you and another being just like you share something in common. That despite your differences and preferences, you both at the base of your existence expect to be given worth just because of being a willing agent.
As an extreme narcissist, since at the base of my being I lack any true feeling of agency, I also neglect that of others and they seem to not respond favourably by me extending that same premise to their state of Being. And, I imagine with good reason, but since I never learned to treat my own true Being with reverence, I really on most days could care less to even fake having that basic respect towards others’ Being. I barely take note nowadays when others are alarmed by my complete lack of concern towards them.

Since treating myself as an object has lead me also to lose track of my true (emotional) needs, it’s just become far easier for me to focus only on immediate, animalistic needs. This becomes a vicious cycle and an obvious problem, since being human entails much more than that. These are all things I can barely grasp anymore, these sentiments feel like rudiments to me whereas to most people they are the essenxe of existence.

SelfSerf wrote:Such a typical narcissistic thing to do — flip a concept on its head and claim it to be the exact equal of its opposite. I wonder why we truly tend towards doing that.

Selfserf, there is hope for you. Often when you write something, I can see the genuine progress you are making.

Donna doesn't deserve shite, neither do you or anyone. Empathy is simply a trait that is evolutionarily beneficial for the survival of the species.
It has nothing to do with the worth of the individual specimens, but with the whole species. It's coded into the brains so the...."greater organism" that is humanity can prosper. It's evolutionary communism if you'd like. And in this regard you're all evolutionary dead ends.
Duh.

Aw don't be like that.

Show a bit of love.

Gimmeabreakman wrote:Donna doesn't deserve shite, neither do you or anyone. Empathy is simply a trait that is evolutionarily beneficial for the survival of the species.
It has nothing to do with the worth of the individual specimens, but with the whole species. It's coded into the brains so the...."greater organism" that is humanity can prosper. It's evolutionary communism if you'd like. And in this regard you're all evolutionary dead ends.
Duh.

I think I like this guy. However I would argue that humans have ‘evolved’ into something self beneficial to the detriment of the rest of life on earth

AProphet wrote:

SelfSerf wrote:Such a typical narcissistic thing to do — flip a concept on its head and claim it to be the exact equal of its opposite. I wonder why we truly tend towards doing that.

Selfserf, there is hope for you. Often when you write something, I can see the genuine progress you are making.

Are you sure it´s not just projection you are indulding in? What are you basing your assumption on, I´d sure as hell like to know. Because as much as I´ve identified with some of the things you´ve posted, many of your posts have led me to believe that you are quite delusional in how you view the world. (As is anyone with NPD. None of us are the center of the universe).

Since not having any real aims in life, I just go through the motions. When I finally tire of that (since am constantly running on empty, i.e. there´s nothing to fuel my life) I start questioning what is the point. And there really isn´t any as far as I´m concerned other than to keep going (barking up the same tree so to speak). And I sure as hell ain´t seeing any progress. Rather I feel like I am just running in circles, chasing my own tail. Since I am basically manic depressive, I just trick myself into the illusion like I am able to carry on, regardless of my mental state, but when I truly feel like I´ve reached the bottom and the depth of feelings for the world hit, all is laid completely bare of any meaning and warmth. It´s like all I have left is hate.

After I discovered the vacuity of my self (not really having any center, no structure, as in not being a real person at all, in your words "more insane than I imagined" etc etc, an automaton) things really haven´t been the same. The most nagging part being my inability to care for others´ existence. They might as well not be there if they´re not there to cater to my wants and needs. And after losing every idealized connection I used to have, life just seems devoid of anything. Idealization was the fuel I used to run on, whether it was certain people I deemed high status, causes or whatever other concepts I put my faith in to save this mess but now I just see how mad I have been my whole life.

There is a very tiny part of me that believes in meaning but that is also the part that has enabled me to magically think my way into relationships where I have ultimately been the user and abuser (yet deluded myself into thinking that the other one is somehow the beneficiary). I doubt there´s much ´hope´ for our kind because I don´t believe that I am capable of love and true connection which is really all that is needed for me to have any hope for living.

Also, am aware that while your post might have indeed been a kind gesture, the standard response is just to shut any of that kindness down since I truly don´t have any of that left for myself and don´t see why you would either.

ZeroZ wrote:Quite the opposite actually, I think I’m just coming to terms with who I really am and it’s ok not to be like everyone else. This isn’t all about empathy obviously. The depression, I couldn’t begin to tell you, it’s replaced an anxiety disorder apparently because I’m off meds for that and hardly ever get anxiety anymore so that’s nice but the depression seems to be causing more negative thoughts but they are my thoughts so I accept them as being a part of who I am.

Thats a curious reaction indeed. Were you using Benzos? Always good to get off those imo.
Depression gets better with time though in my experience, if our paths of treatment / development (?) are alike in some way. In a way I also find depression to not be the real issue.

Covert seems to be struggling with the idea he feels rejected, I feel abit of freedom about it all.

I did saw some similarities there. There is a deep-seated expectation to having to be a certain way for other people, which I read into that complaint about random Donna and her right (or absence thereof) of being cared for by you. I would also feel rejection in there, as you are in the process of removing yourself from that dependence or to get more free... and you seemed angry to me about people expecting stuff from you (and possibly rejecting you for it like you reject Donna).
But yea if its a current process for you, then welcome to the club lol. Then we are three I think, unless xdude has solved this forum him completely.

I don't think empathy is self-serving but I am certain it is a trait that proved useful from an evolutionary standpoint.

Though none of this matters to me.

The only reason why it matters is because it helps connecting, helps support long-lasting deep relationships. In that sense, it contributes to peace of mind and a sense of purpose, both of which helps lift depression.