How to go from covert narcissism to overt narcissism?

astraldeath wrote:What if the individual actually prefers human company but is forced to categorise themselves as introverts because of the social anxiety of interacting with others? If the ‘introvert’ then learns all these skills you talk of and become confident exercising them, wouldn’t they then shift to their underlying extrovert self that was initially struggling to be realised because of that barrier of low confidence and anxiety?

My question is what makes an introvert, really? If an “introvert” wants to be an extrovert, then clearly they aren’t happy with how they are, so couldn’t that suggest in some circumstances that they are in some sense extroverts but this extroversion is maybe short-lived or non existent due to inhibitions, rather than it being simply because they want to be alone and want social isolation?

I may want to be a redhead, and I can be a redhead by coloring my hair. Now you and I both know I'm not really a redhead, but it doesn't matter. As long as I keep dyeing my hair, I've achieved my goal of becoming a redhead.

If you develop the right skills, you can pass yourself off as an extrovert. Why aren't you then an extrovert? Because if you're truly an introvert, after exercising all of those crazy extroverted skills, you'll need to hole up in a quiet room by yourself for a few hours (or days) to recover. Your basic underlying personality doesn't change.

Acting like an extrovert comes naturally to an extrovert, and requires effort on behalf of an introvert.

Why are you so hung up on what label to use? If your ambition is to develop those skills, your time may be better spent figuring out how to do that instead of worrying about labels.

flightrisk wrote:

astraldeath wrote:What if the individual actually prefers human company but is forced to categorise themselves as introverts because of the social anxiety of interacting with others? If the ‘introvert’ then learns all these skills you talk of and become confident exercising them, wouldn’t they then shift to their underlying extrovert self that was initially struggling to be realised because of that barrier of low confidence and anxiety?

My question is what makes an introvert, really? If an “introvert” wants to be an extrovert, then clearly they aren’t happy with how they are, so couldn’t that suggest in some circumstances that they are in some sense extroverts but this extroversion is maybe short-lived or non existent due to inhibitions, rather than it being simply because they want to be alone and want social isolation?

I may want to be a redhead, and I can be a redhead by coloring my hair. Now you and I both know I'm not really a redhead, but it doesn't matter. As long as I keep dyeing my hair, I've achieved my goal of becoming a redhead.

If you develop the right skills, you can pass yourself off as an extrovert. Why aren't you then an extrovert? Because if you're truly an introvert, after exercising all of those crazy extroverted skills, you'll need to hole up in a quiet room by yourself for a few hours (or days) to recover. Your basic underlying personality doesn't change.

Acting like an extrovert comes naturally to an extrovert, and requires effort on behalf of an introvert.

Why are you so hung up on what label to use? If your ambition is to develop those skills, your time may be better spent figuring out how to do that instead of worrying about labels.

How did this become about ambiversion? This on the other hand, has nothing to do with the transition from covert to overt. You can be very outgoing and sociable when abusing yourself as covert.

Akuma wrote:The question stems from that both narcissistic grandiosity and vulnerability can show in overt and covert forms. So becoming more overt doesnt necessarily mean becoming less vulnerable.

Listen to yourself. Narcissistic vulnerability? when you dont have feelings to be hurt. When your overt its all about how you are infallible and godlike. You "feel" special, entitled, better than others, the only true human being, others are only your extensions. Keep displaying your brillaince for us. Please. Its been what? 7 years? And you still dont understand the basic things about the disorder. The ones that google tells you right away.

@AProphet,

Google is a virtual source of information but it's not always accurate or verifiable information. It's dodgy to rely on that online source when there are many other sources that are far more reliable and verifiable. Published books by professional psychological researchers who've done their homework over many years of research and developed therapy models based on what they've gleaned from their research and in their practices are far more reliable than any pop culture answer (Vaknin included) that Google comes up with.

God help us, if we start taking Google so seriously.

"Keep displaying your brillaince for us."

I don't speak for Akuma or anyone else on this forum. But, um, who's "us"?

I'm speaking as a user, not as a mod here, but those words quoted above show your lack of sensitivity towards those who deal with NPD on this forum. Is this a contest for you to show your brilliance?

Gawd. {Banging my head on the keyboard}

realityhere wrote:"Keep displaying your brillaince for us."

I don't speak for Akuma or anyone else on this forum. But, um, who's "us"?

I'm speaking as a user, not as a mod here, but those words quoted above show your lack of sensitivity towards those who deal with NPD on this forum. Is this a contest for you to show your brilliance?

Gawd. {Banging my head on the keyboard}

Us meaning our little community. Your name is Realityhere. Im sorry, but he cant just deny reality like that. People come here for advice. If we cant agree on a common set of facts we cant have a discussion.

@AProphet,

"If we cant agree on a common set of facts we cant have a discussion."

Users come here with many different views, which can be helpful to others to learn more about their disorder. Your view is but one of many here and it may help some users, just as Akuma's or Greebo's or flightrisk's views may help others. The OP (not to mention the lurkers who read this thread) has the advantage of getting various viewpoints and he can then draw his own conclusions.

You'll just have to agree to disagree and respect that others have their own views. The point of this forum is to create open dialogue and provide peer support, it's not a place to have a contest of who's right/ wrong. Is that understood?

Btw, if certain posters trigger you, there is always the Friends & Foes feature in your User Control Panel, so you don't have to read their posts.

realityhere wrote:@AProphet,

"If we cant agree on a common set of facts we cant have a discussion."

Users come here with many different views, which can be helpful to others to learn more about their disorder. Your view is but one of many here and it may help some users, just as Akuma's or Greebo's or flightrisk's views may help others. The OP (not to mention the lurkers who read this thread) has the advantage of getting various viewpoints and he can then draw his own conclusions.

You'll just have to agree to disagree and respect that others have their own views. The point of this forum is to create open dialogue and provide peer support, it's not a place to have a contest of who's right/ wrong. Is that understood?

Btw, if certain posters trigger you, there is always the Friends & Foes feature in your User Control Panel, so you don't have to read their posts.

Yes I understand. Thats why I argue with the view I see as incorrect. So anyone lurking can read our discussion, evaluate the arguments for himself and make up their own mind.

And its not incorrect. Freud, Kohut and Kernber express the same view as Vaknin. He just built on their foundations. Some people just dont understand what they read.

"Thats why I argue with the view I see as incorrect."

Ah, now it's about being "correct".

Totally off-topic but as this is turning into a pissing contest...

For what it’s worth I think akuma put acidprophet on ignore after he started harassing him via the pm system, I imagine there’s a good chance he’s still there. It may well be that akuma is the only one not putting up with his drivel.

The larger issue with AcidProphet in so far as new users are concerned is that he lies.
Examples:

narcissistic-personality/topic212677-30.html#p2222432
Here he was requested to give his source for a quote. He cited Narcissist Partner Abuse: Change Yourself to Stop Being a Victim Kindle Edition by Caroline Foster. Neither the quoted passage nor sections of it appear in that book.

Protip: The Kindle app comes with a search function

In so far as I can tell the text has been pulled from a random answer on quora.

narcissistic-personality/topic211947.html?hilit=Diagnostic#p2215534
Here he gives 0.5% to 1% as the prevalence of NPD, when challenged he cites Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, DSM-5.

This is page 671 of the DSM-5.
https://i.postimg.cc/SRssHVJh/E139-FF42 ... 5-DC88.jpg
You will see that it does not say 0.5% to 1%.

This is just using his interactions with rh to illustrate the point. Since aku asked me to keep an eye on him and report if he starts encouraging highly depressed people to shovel in the drugs again, my impression is that he alternates between whinging about a relationship that never existed and posting information about NPD which he pulls straight out of his arse. He then has a strop when challenged.

Akuma on the other hand is probably one of the most (if not the most) helpful and knowledgeable users this forum has ever had.

I am quietly confident that I’m not the only one who views them in this light.