Self esteem

GadSitar wrote:Take your time. I'm not going anywhere. I have taken a sebatical from life until I fix myself.

Nothing much to add, but I think you got to the heart of the matter. There is an evolutionary instinct at play, 'I want you to be successful', and it started early for NPD children. We learned I am valued for what I accomplish, and for some of us we learned, to be shamed/guilted if we don't.

For whatever it's worth, it's seems to be something people with BPD struggle with too, except in their case it's 'I what you to be dependent on me', until I don't. The NPD version is 'I want you to be successful', until I don't.

And I am also on sebatical from life

GadSitar wrote:What is an accurate definition for self esteem and does it apply to narcissism? I have come across the term many times and I vaguely know what it means. But I'm not so sure what an accurate definition of it is? Is it simply how one perceives oneself? Does it apply to narcissism?

For example, a narcissist may be aware that they behave badly with people (because they tell them and they see their reactions in day to day interactions) and that therefore, they are a bad person. Now if they uphold such a personal belief about themselves is it necessarily low self esteem? What if they don't care if they are bad? Or more accurately, what if they relish their "badness" or accept it as being good (for them). Can we still say they have low self esteem?

I don't think most pwNPD are aware that they're behaving badly. It's fairly characteristic of narcs to believe that we're always in the right and if something's gone sideways - someone else is surely to blame. It's only after NPD awareness that you start to see the patterns, which is why awareness can be really tough to deal with.

With regards to self esteem, I swing between thinking I'm above others to believing I'm a waste of oxygen, with not a lot of time spent in the middle ground. I've never been able to see myself as just part of the crowd. I'm a perpetual outsider - either because I'm better than everyone else, or I don't measure up.

Perhaps that's low self esteem but I think it's something deeper. Like something in the core is missing which would ordinarily serve as an anchor for self perceptions and self esteem.

I think I'm basically an avoidant who can't accept I'm an avoidant. Self-esteem is unconsciously very low, but consciously fluctuates between average and "fake-high" if that makes sense.

"Jonathan Cheek and colleagues found that higher scorers on this “Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale” tended to also score higher on tests of entitlement, shame, and neuroticism, and tended to display lower levels of self esteem, extraversion, agreeableness, and conscientiousness. In contrast, maladaptive overt narcissism wasn’t related to shame, self esteem, or neuroticism"

Ubinix800 wrote:I think I'm basically an avoidant who can't accept I'm an avoidant. Self-esteem is unconsciously very low, but consciously fluctuates between average and "fake-high" if that makes sense.

"Jonathan Cheek and colleagues found that higher scorers on this “Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale” tended to also score higher on tests of entitlement, shame, and neuroticism, and tended to display lower levels of self esteem, extraversion, agreeableness, and conscientiousness. In contrast, maladaptive overt narcissism wasn’t related to shame, self esteem, or neuroticism"

I’ve read that NPD can resemble avoidant personality disorder once the defensive mechanisms are stripped away

ZeroZ wrote:

Ubinix800 wrote:I think I'm basically an avoidant who can't accept I'm an avoidant. Self-esteem is unconsciously very low, but consciously fluctuates between average and "fake-high" if that makes sense.

"Jonathan Cheek and colleagues found that higher scorers on this “Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale” tended to also score higher on tests of entitlement, shame, and neuroticism, and tended to display lower levels of self esteem, extraversion, agreeableness, and conscientiousness. In contrast, maladaptive overt narcissism wasn’t related to shame, self esteem, or neuroticism"

I’ve read that NPD can resemble avoidant personality disorder once the defensive mechanisms are stripped away

You mean if there is recommendation or psychosis?