Narcisistic Personaltiy Disorder and Its Effects

AProphet wrote: Practicing this will help you reflect on the rest of your life, which looks you achieved a level of allready. Object relations is what started appearing for me first. Do you still think about your old friends and what happened? Try to see it again, in this new light. Focus on what they were feeling. You can actualy feel it for them, Its called emotional empathy. I had to learn all the feelings this way, because the feelings you are having now are not geniune. They are not the same feelings other people have. Empathy is key in reconstructing your personality I found. When you do this, you will be able to meaningfully relate to others. Do you by any chance possess the photographic memory, or what Vaknin calls "emotional resonance tables"? I used that to feel out all the repressed feelings. Now I make the dystinction between the true self and false self.
These are all capacities the false self Is incapable of. Find the one in your mind that is capable of that, and thats the real you. Another capacity thats lacking Is self-expression, expressing your feelings. This might be difficult, your soul right now is a cosmic void, emptyness and year of self-abandonment. But be brave and there is hope. If You dont want to stay like this, you dont have to.

You can look in my other threads for more details. Learn as much about the disorder, as you can, find what capacities you are lacking, becouse of it, and ask your therapist to practice those with you. Even if the disorder wont be totally eradicated, you will be able to maintain your functioning internally, without the need to prove to others, that you are special. You will just be special, just yourself.

At this point, I am very confused about what to do or what to look for. Should i learn everything about my disorder? Or should i look for tratments?
I was thinking i knew almost everything about my disorder and how it works until i start to share my thoughts in forums like this one. New sources about NPD, new thoughts of other poeple.. Yes, i actually think that Sam Vaknin see through me . I watched some of videos, read some of his books -some parts-. And now this evolved into a whole new level.
At this point i am lost about what to do. If i should learn about my disroder *even only basics" idk where to start or where to look up. Or maybe should i drop all the academic parts of my disorder and look for something to help me. Although trying to heal something that you dont know what it is or what it does exactly seems absurd, reading posts, books or wathcing videos -which most of them includes academic words or simple english words that i dont even know- is getting harder ,because i cant understand content fully.

zabi wrote:At this point, I am very confused about what to do or what to look for. Should i learn everything about my disorder? Or should i look for tratments?

Well since you are in therapy I'd first of all ask your therapist about that. If theyre professional they are usually able to put things into a broader perspective [than you can do yourself]. Theres a problem with CBT therapists disliking analytic therapies and vice versa though so I would factor this into the questions and interpretation of the answers.

I was thinking i knew almost everything about my disorder and how it works until i start to share my thoughts in forums like this one. New sources about NPD, new thoughts of other poeple.. Yes, i actually think that Sam Vaknin see through me . I watched some of videos, read some of his books -some parts-. And now this evolved into a whole new level.

I dont think knowing stuff about a "disorder" is how insight works. I've put a lof of time into reading stuff, but to be honest most of it I share here and thats it. It has some value in itself, especially if people have very flawed ideas about certain issues, or when people are at the beginning of their path and are not in therapy, nor planning to go there etc; but, while some stuff can give helpful hand in supporting certain ways of looking at things, for example when you do confrontational therapy things, most of it isn't useful in fixing your stuff. In my case I've stopped reading books basically completely since I entered my current therapy, except when looking for references. I dont think its necessary anymore, especially since - when I really have a question thats more theoretical - I can just ask an expert myself.
Regarding Vaknin, he's a sort of internet phenomenon, he shows up here usually a lot in posts of newbies who think he's an expert, while he is not. Theres a lot of confusion in his work, some baiting and manipulation and some stuff he has simply invented himself. He can probably be useful as a first glance but if you're really into learning about the disorder, I'd rather recommend the book by Elsa Ronningstam, thats still rather up-to-date and much more accurate as an introduction.

zabi wrote:At this point, I am very confused about what to do or what to look for. Should i learn everything about my disorder? Or should i look for tratments?
I was thinking i knew almost everything about my disorder and how it works until i start to share my thoughts in forums like this one. New sources about NPD, new thoughts of other poeple.. Yes, i actually think that Sam Vaknin see through me . I watched some of videos, read some of his books -some parts-. And now this evolved into a whole new level.
At this point i am lost about what to do. If i should learn about my disroder *even only basics" idk where to start or where to look up. Or maybe should i drop all the academic parts of my disorder and look for something to help me. Although trying to heal something that you dont know what it is or what it does exactly seems absurd, reading posts, books or wathcing videos -which most of them includes academic words or simple english words that i dont even know- is getting harder ,because i cant understand content fully.

You did understand that the disorder makes you behave a certain way, and require certain things. Its considered essentialy untreatable, the most they can offer you in your home town most likely is symptom management and talk therapy, without referal to a world-class specialist, you cant go much further. Those are still usefull, but you might have to guide your therapist in what you require from them. But the information you need you will have to google, the therapist most likely wont tell you.

The new level you speak of, is the internal mechanics of HOW the disorder operates. You have to develop a map of your inner functioning. For me the interpretation of two selves, you being two entities in constant conflict, was extremely helpful, and the closest to reality I could find. You can be known and understand yourself. And when you understand, you will be able to form new though processes, the change you desire. Focus on those capacities that the disorder supresses: that other people have thoughts and feelings, try to understand how you pushed away all the people in your life and think in terms of cause and effect, object relations are severely impaired, so its hard to understand that your actions have consequences. You require thinking about your life and actions more, than academic words and complex theories. Dont abuse yourself anymore, keep telling yourself you are fine the way you are, its not your fault you have a incurable mental illness worse than schizophrenia, belive in yourself, be good to yourself, trust yourself. Are you having/had any strange, extremely clear and vivid or recurring dreams?

"To understand is to transform what is." -Jiddu Krishnamurti

I am going to make some broad generalizations; they aren't entirely correct for everyone, but getting into the weeds is too complicated to write out. This also won't be entirely PC, and it's incomplete, but oh well...

In a broad sense, we guys learned to hush, do your job, be stoic, work, suck it up, and we so believe this that we beat ourselves even more for having any feelings about our abusive parent/s. We have been well trained.

I don't know if compensatory NPD is untreatable so much at is unlikely to be treated, but yes to AProphet's thought, be good to yourself. Make some changes as you are ready for it. I don't know that any therapist can help because of the dual messages; be weak, but be strong too. Few are comfortable with watching a break down, especially if it's a guy. You may have go though a personal meltdown (maybe more than once) and really process that abuse before you can get better, but society will not encourage you to do so, the very thing NPD types struggle with, social approval.

We NPD types think we can think through everything; the way out is to feel it but we don't know how or give ourselves permissions to do so - that's how we were trained - be a good, silent, boy. That's what gets you a reward.

Akuma wrote:
Well since you are in therapy I'd first of all ask your therapist about that. If theyre professional they are usually able to put things into a broader perspective [than you can do yourself]. Theres a problem with CBT therapists disliking analytic therapies and vice versa though so I would factor this into the questions and interpretation of the answers.

I dont think knowing stuff about a "disorder" is how insight works. I've put a lof of time into reading stuff, but to be honest most of it I share here and thats it. It has some value in itself, especially if people have very flawed ideas about certain issues, or when people are at the beginning of their path and are not in therapy, nor planning to go there etc; but, while some stuff can give helpful hand in supporting certain ways of looking at things, for example when you do confrontational therapy things, most of it isn't useful in fixing your stuff. In my case I've stopped reading books basically completely since I entered my current therapy, except when looking for references. I dont think its necessary anymore, especially since - when I really have a question thats more theoretical - I can just ask an expert myself.
Regarding Vaknin, he's a sort of internet phenomenon, he shows up here usually a lot in posts of newbies who think he's an expert, while he is not. Theres a lot of confusion in his work, some baiting and manipulation and some stuff he has simply invented himself. He can probably be useful as a first glance but if you're really into learning about the disorder, I'd rather recommend the book by Elsa Ronningstam, thats still rather up-to-date and much more accurate as an introduction.

Yeah , i guess my first step will be talking to my therapist about these kind of stuff i have in mind. Since i am kind of new to authors or experts in NPD i think my therapist can lead me what or who the look for. If not i can ask here i guess.

AProphet wrote:The new level you speak of, is the internal mechanics of HOW the disorder operates. You have to develop a map of your inner functioning. For me the interpretation of two selves, you being two entities in constant conflict, was extremely helpful, and the closest to reality I could find. You can be known and understand yourself. And when you understand, you will be able to form new though processes, the change you desire. Focus on those capacities that the disorder supresses: that other people have thoughts and feelings, try to understand how you pushed away all the people in your life and think in terms of cause and effect, object relations are severely impaired, so its hard to understand that your actions have consequences. You require thinking about your life and actions more, than academic words and complex theories. Dont abuse yourself anymore, keep telling yourself you are fine the way you are, its not your fault you have a incurable mental illness worse than schizophrenia, belive in yourself, be good to yourself, trust yourself. Are you having/had any strange, extremely clear and vivid or recurring dreams?

I think ive always known how the disorder works. I was aware of two different selves -in a slightly different way but it was accruate- But i am never sure about what is the truth about it. What i feel or think about my problem may be an espousal. Therefore my actions to heal my problems may not work in a way that i think they should. I think i need to learn how the disorder really works in the situations i want to change. So i can try to change that parts .
I dont feel bad about myself or hate myself. I dont blame myself. In fact, if i can solve my current problems -depression episodes, antisocialising, relationship problems etc- feeling supperior, having a high look on self may not be that bad i think.
I have taht kind of dreams almost daily. especially when i am in a bad mood. Last two weeks i ve never had a night without a dream or nightmare.

xdude wrote:I don't know if compensatory NPD is untreatable so much at is unlikely to be treated, but yes to AProphet's thought, be good to yourself. Make some changes as you are ready for it. I don't know that any therapist can help because of the dual messages; be weak, but be strong too. Few are comfortable with watching a break down, especially if it's a guy. You may have go though a personal meltdown (maybe more than once) and really process that abuse before you can get better, but society will not encourage you to do so, the very thing NPD types struggle with, social approval.

We NPD types think we can think through everything; the way out is to feel it but we don't know how or give ourselves permissions to do so - that's how we were trained - be a good, silent, boy. That's what gets you a reward.

I dont know how to change things. I even dont know what should i change. I feel like i need a tier list about my behaviours and thoughts and their effects on me ,so i can prioritize them before trying to change them.
As you said, i really think i can think and learn through my primary problems that are ruining my life.But i need proper help about what should i do and how should i do.
I cant agree with you more on your last paragraph. The part we were trained, but somethings have to change. Even if everyone in the earth tells me that is impossible, i can not agree with that sşmply because i cant let my life to get destroyed. And i really dont think the results i am looking for are unreachable. I can live with disorder, but i cant live with this constant bad and paranoid thoughts about myself and depression episodes cause by these thoughts. Thats my main target to make them bearable for me. And i think this is not impossible. I will get my reward when i find a way to achieve this.

Depends on what you are trying to get out of this, will you ever completely unravel a disorder and be able to build a new personality? I don’t think it’s really possible, I think a more realistic approach is to seek self acceptance, whatever that is for you, to not let your disorder ruin your relationships. I’ve found that when I get boiling hot and feel like verbally murdering someone I just close my mouth as tight as possible and refuse to speak at all. Hopefully the other person is smart enough to drop it at this point. Unfortunately the other way is to avoid getting involved with anyone. It’s really more helpful to just pick one thing and work on that.

zabi wrote:I think ive always known how the disorder works. I was aware of two different selves -in a slightly different way but it was accruate- But i am never sure about what is the truth about it. What i feel or think about my problem may be an espousal. Therefore my actions to heal my problems may not work in a way that i think they should. I think i need to learn how the disorder really works in the situations i want to change. So i can try to change that parts .
I dont feel bad about myself or hate myself. I dont blame myself. In fact, if i can solve my current problems -depression episodes, antisocialising, relationship problems etc- feeling supperior, having a high look on self may not be that bad i think.
I have taht kind of dreams almost daily. especially when i am in a bad mood. Last two weeks i ve never had a night without a dream or nightmare.

I wasnt aware that there is two selves, untill I learned that from the internet. Nothing seemed any different, everything felt perfectly natural, like I was being myself. Nothing wrong with speaking to myself as "you" and "we". Only after I learned that, I could start identifying which is which. And the true self was barely existant. I wouldnt know its there, unless I fell in love. I guess I had it easy, it was the part of me with the feeling.

For you it should be the same way. The true self does all the feeling, reflecting and expressing itself, all capacities supressed by the disorder. Practice those capacities and your behavior should be gradualy modified. You will get to be yourself, not the attention seeking exploitative automaton - the false self or what Kernberg calls the pathological grandiose self, which replaces the true self in persons affected by the disorder. You will have to get back in touch with that.

xdude wrote:We NPD types think we can think through everything; the way out is to feel it but we don't know how or give ourselves permissions to do so - that's how we were trained - be a good, silent, boy. That's what gets you a reward.

Well said, the way out is to FEEL it out. Becouse the true self has all the feelings, and learning the feelings and empathy will develop the part of you thats healthy, not the disorder. Tell me the dreams with all the details you remember.

ZeroZ wrote:Depends on what you are trying to get out of this, will you ever completely unravel a disorder and be able to build a new personality? I don’t think it’s really possible, I think a more realistic approach is to seek self acceptance, whatever that is for you, to not let your disorder ruin your relationships. I’ve found that when I get boiling hot and feel like verbally murdering someone I just close my mouth as tight as possible and refuse to speak at all. Hopefully the other person is smart enough to drop it at this point. Unfortunately the other way is to avoid getting involved with anyone. It’s really more helpful to just pick one thing and work on that.

Yes, as i said i dont think fully heal or being fully free of disorder is impossible. But the certain behaviours or reactions that are ruining my life can change. I cant function or live my life when i am low on supllies. But if i can stay at some level when i need attention or praise, i can refill my suplly with more humanistic behaviour -without damaging others or myself-.