Narcisistic Personaltiy Disorder and Its Effects

AProphet wrote:Sry for late reply zabi.

Just be evil and abusive, no shame in that, if its what makes you feel better. I heard it should, given the nature of the disorder.

Feeling yourself superrior, seeing that you are better than others or just getting a simple praise satisfies me so much that i really dont wanna lose that feeling when i get it. But craving for these feelings or attention and praises affects my whole life so harshly that every decision i make, every relationship i create, simply every step i make is based on that. Feeding my "inner demon" is a great feeling but it never ends. And times happen when there is nothing or no one to feed that inner demon and those are the times life becomes very hard for me. I destroyed my relationships ,friendships simply because i feel i was better than them. I pushed people away. I made no friends.
At some point i was so alone that no one was there to say me a single good word. That led to a huge depressive state. That i could not continue to my school or my life. I simply survived. For last 5 years i am living like this mostly. And i want to be free of these narcisistic needs. I dont want to crave for praise or attention this badly so i can live my life based on how i want to more than how i need to.

AProphet wrote: Now the demon or often called "inner voice" has wishes and directives of its own right? You try to comply with its wishes? If you dont, it makes you feel bad about yourself? Ever present, do you feel like you are challenging it constantly? How does it speak. Can you give some quotes, what you were thinking exactly in different situations?

Yes, this demon has a voice. But it does not have any wishes anymore. I am at a state there my inner demon is just simply there to make me feel bad about myself. It always reminds me about my insecurities and when i say always its really like 7/24. When these voices of inner demon becomes unberable i experience minor depressions . And i simply can not function at any field in my life. As an example, if i dont get any decent reply to my comments during a meeting with friends that wakes the inner demon. From that moment it never stops until it does. " They dont like you, you are not like them, you are a failure, you look ugly, you are 25 and still a student. They think you are stupid. Your body is ugly. you are losing your hair. You gonna live a miserable life. You will be poor. You will be alone." Anything i -or my inner demon- can think of about me that is bad.. It starts with a little insult from my inner demon and ends with a feeling like "i am the most pathetic person aorund me".Sometimes I follow a girl on instagram and she doesnt follow back.Then again it starts." You are ugly, Why should she wants you. You are poor. You are going bald. You shouldnt even have a instagram profile at first place." And i am not even bad looking and i ve had so many relationships. Some of these thoughts are so irrelevant that after i relax i find them painfully funny.I cant overcome this thoughts even if i know they are not real. When i am at that depressed phase i think they are the truth.And this is so exhausting. Im always on alert in my mind. If a bad thing happens , i always have to convince myself that these thoughts are not real and coming from my disorder. I simply cant get out of my mind and trapped inside. Thats the part that hurts and wounds me most. Living a file inside your mind simply because if i let go and a even a smallest bad thing happen my inner demon overcomes me and makes me depressed. This is the point where i seek help.

Sounds like your inner voice is abusive and sadistic, and the only way to satiate it is to have external affirmation of your value. Its how I experienced the disorder also (with one important difference, I was a narcissist-invert). Otherwise the feeling of annulment and disintegration you describe prevents normal functioning, experienced that too very recently. Where every smallest unplanned thing obliterates your will to live. Thats how it feels, right?

Now unfortunately the characterisitc of the disorder is that your personality cannot be maintained internaly, so you will have to secure new supply and new friends when you are abandoned, thats the cycle. You know allready that it never ends. Now I know for a fact that you can achieve internal validation, becouse I managed that myself. But right now, thats unimaginable to you, how to do that. The only mode of operation known to you is getting admired or hating yourself.

But (as much as possible) try developing geniune connection to others, caring for others and their needs and feelings. Not just about how they see you. Do you think you can reach out to any of your old friends, tell them you have this realy ###$ up mental illness, and that your trying to become a better person and if they can help you. Try to be honest as much as you can. If not it doesnt matter, you can meet new people. Another characterisitc of the disorder is that of low empathy. You've said you had many relationships, can you tell me how many girls you had in love with you? Were you in love with any of them? The disorder works in a specific way, and challenging your thought process, the demon, will be extremely arduous and painful. The fact is nevertheless that you DONT have to feel that way. IT DOESNT MATTER what others think of you. It DOESNT MATTER if the girl follows you on instagram. DOESNT MATTER if they like you or hate you. You dont have to feel bad about anything, anything you do, your allowed just to be yourself. Now I know thats difficult, especialy with an impaired thought process, an abusive inner voice, becouse of the disorder. Idk is there any possibility you see in which you could rewire those mental circuits? I know its overwhelming and the disorder is all-pervasive, but tell me that its true. That you dont have to feel bad about who you are.

zabi wrote:They dont like you, you are not like them, you are a failure, you look ugly, you are 25 and still a student. They think you are stupid. Your body is ugly. you are losing your hair. You gonna live a miserable life. You will be poor. You will be alone."

Yes, this is what I was expecting. My inner voice also spoke to me in terms of "you". What I discovered was that the I (back then), was what I identified as my false self. And the you (in the internal dialogue) the real me, was barely existant. But I had no capacity to reflect on this, becouse of the disorder. Even when It spoke to me in terms of "WE" once. Was nothing wrong with that. Didnt even notice in the moment. Its a realy ###$ up mental illness. Dont beat yourself up zabi.

Im sorry its confusing, but it realy is confusing. Was this demon always with you, since you can remember? Or can you name something specific, when this started?

AProphet wrote:But (as much as possible) try developing geniune connection to others, caring for others and their needs and feelings. Not just about how they see you. Do you think you can reach out to any of your old friends, tell them you have this realy ###$ up mental illness, and that your trying to become a better person and if they can help you. Try to be honest as much as you can. If not it doesnt matter, you can meet new people.

I really dont know how to develop these connections. I cant feel they way that others describe how they think or feel about others. I talked some of my closest friends and some of my partners about friendship like how they feel about their friends etc. And it made no sense to me. Even one of my ex gf told me while ago that i was self centered in our relationship. That shocked me because i was thinking i was deeply in love that time. This conservation was before i know about my disorder but i clearly remember it.
Also meeting new people or rebuilding my older friendships to get that supply for my inner demon, and try to care about them and connect with them seems very hard simply because i know that i want them in my life just for my needs. That knowloedge itself prevents that "real connection" that i try to build. I think my problem with connection to other people caused by my ego. I put myself above others so i cant really feel a connection. And i dont know how to maintain a connection when i simply look down on them.[/quote]

AProphet wrote:IT DOESNT MATTER what others think of you. It DOESNT MATTER if the girl follows you on instagram. DOESNT MATTER if they like you or hate you. You dont have to feel bad about anything, anything you do, your allowed just to be yourself. Now I know thats difficult, especialy with an impaired thought process, an abusive inner voice, becouse of the disorder. Idk is there any possibility you see in which you could rewire those mental circuits? I know its overwhelming and the disorder is all-pervasive, but tell me that its true. That you dont have to feel bad about who you are.

I genuinely know it doesnt matter. In fact -thanks to my disorder- i simply dont care other peoples opinion at most cases. BUT, it does matter to my inner demon. And thats a big impact on my life at the moment.

I am pretty sure that this narcisistic disorder wont disappear. I can live a normal, good life while thinking i am greater than any other. I can gain some more self-esteem. I can find people that will accept me as i am. But i cant live with this inner demon. I need to learn how to prevent it, make it weaker and more quiet. I need it to disappear or get smaller so i can just get out of my head and live a life, make some relationship and boost my ego. But first of all i need to handle with this inner demon.

zabi wrote:It is CBT mostly. I am not sure yet how useful it is for me. In my case i cant find situations to use this therapy effectively i think. Since my triggers are so sensitive and meaningless .

Ah yea. Well it depends on the therapist, too. I had a hug and cuddle cbt-therapist who after a while thought it would be necessary to learn how to get touched and stuff. I think that was also a reason I looked for something else lol.
With "sensitive and meaningless" you mean all over the place?
Because I found also thats - while in a way a good thing - also a weakness of the method, it works better if you have a few clearly defined problems to work on, while PDs are usually quite pervasive.

I used antidepressants for my paranoia and major depression. I had major depression 5 years ago. And experiencing minor depressions when i lose myself in bad thoughs about myself. They may last hours,days even weeks. I want to prevent them so i want to consider taking antidepressants again.

For paranoia? Ok thats new to me.
I had massive problems with paranoia myself, everyone staring at me, laughing about me etc. It was dissolved mostly in the past few years. I think mostly by a tandem of reality-testing and the therapies I've been doing. So if thats still a problem for you I can say from my experience you can get rid of this. The depression is a bit of another matter, since in NPD depression is often different than with people who - well actually have depression. Its a side-effect of devaluation, or so I've learned. But that can be reduced, too.
Does your paranoia also worsen, when you feel depressive? I always found a connection there but its lately occuring so rarely I never inquired with my therapist as to the connection.

I think most of my current problems caused by low self-esteem. But i cant start or try to do something to re-gain it simply because of me spending so much time in my head that causes a very depressive behaviour. When a single little bad thing or even a nightmare can starts the bad and paranoid thoughts about myself and puts me in a very depressive and unfunctional state. i need some appreciation and attention but i have no one around me to give them and i am doing nothing to earn any. My main goal is to get some self-esteem and socialise with people. I need to change the ways i am approching to people and see them same as me. I need to be a part of them and not seperate myself from others. But as i said i can not function effectively because of these constant thoughts that gets me so depressed.

Yea I can understand that being frustrating. One way to look at this in a more psychodynamic way, is to ask if the depression does not also have an active, protective role. If one has never connected with people [in a normal way] - as I think most ppl with NPD have not - then actually trying to walk the path necessary to be able to do so is a very big step. Parts of the mind might be very aware of that and frightened of it and ultimately use all sorts of stuff like devaluation to quickly get rid of the processes creating such fears - and by that creating new problems, like depressive symptoms. Things like this would be what is investigated in psychodynamic/-analytic therapy though.
How long is your CBT thing going so far?
I had a "survey" a while ago on here, and all the other pwNPD here didnt last in therapy longer than a year . So we can compete here. I'm at 1 1/2!
As long as you're in it, if you have eh capacity to do so, I'd try to park the more comlex stuff and use the CBT for what it can be used for. Dunno how it is in yoru coutnry, here we have certain "standard" times that therapies run. Imo its always best to keep in these times and not to abort, lest not getting into that habit.
Anyways hope youre feeling ok today.

Akuma wrote:With "sensitive and meaningless" you mean all over the place?
Because I found also thats - while in a way a good thing - also a weakness of the method, it works better if you have a few clearly defined problems to work on, while PDs are usually quite pervasive.

I mean, it can get triggered by any smallest thing. Anything will do the job for me.A single defeat in a game, a nightmare, not getting a follow from the girl ive just followed on instagram etc... On the countrary, i have so many situations -that puts me in that state- to work on unfortunately.
In some cases, i experienced situations that i was trying to avoid and saw that they were not that bad. But in same situation at some other time, eventhough after i saw it was nothing like i was afraid of, it can still trigger my inner demon to jsut insult me. It is not stable at this point. I know it needs time to heal for a problem like mine. But I am experiencing these bad thoughts that leads me to depression so harshly that, CBT alone wont do the trick for me. I need to make this "inner demon"
weaker. ı need to find a way to limit the harm caused by my bad thought, so i can live my life, function and continue to my CBT to fully- as much as it can be done- heal in long terms.

Akuma wrote:Does your paranoia also worsen, when you feel depressive? I always found a connection there but its lately occuring so rarely I never inquired with my therapist as to the connection.

Most of my paranoias were about my partners. Fear of them cheating me etc. When i talk to my partner on the phone i was only listening the background to hear if she is with someone. I couldnt help that feeling of insecurity. I had to be sure everytime they are not cheating or lying. It was two-way around. When i get depressed i became insanely paranoid, when i get paranoid i became insanely depressed. My bad thoughts feed my paranoia. Simply i was thinking so low of myself that my paranoias started to make sense.
But my relationship helped me get thourgh it mostly. My partner was very understanding about it. And everytime i get paranoid, she proved that i was feeling paranoid for nothing.And i dont have a partner for a year so i really dont have a situation to experience it. But i dont think i will if i ever haave a relationship. Even if i get paranoid i am pretty sure it will be way more tolerable now thanks to my last relationship.

Akuma wrote:How long is your CBT thing going so far?
I had a "survey" a while ago on here, and all the other pwNPD here didnt last in therapy longer than a year . So we can compete here. I'm at 1 1/2!
As long as you're in it, if you have eh capacity to do so, I'd try to park the more comlex stuff and use the CBT for what it can be used for. Dunno how it is in yoru coutnry, here we have certain "standard" times that therapies run. Imo its always best to keep in these times and not to abort, lest not getting into that habit.
Anyways hope youre feeling ok today.

Ive been getting CBT for 4 months i think. I am seeing my therapist once a week -one hour each sesion-. I dont want to abort it. Even if itdoesnt help, i feel way better when i talk freely about these things.
I am feeling way more better after i see people like you who tries to help as far one can. I feel like i am not alone on this. And i very appreciate it. Thank you a lot.

zabi wrote:I really dont know how to develop these connections. I cant feel they way that others describe how they think or feel about others. I talked some of my closest friends and some of my partners about friendship like how they feel about their friends etc. And it made no sense to me. Even one of my ex gf told me while ago that i was self centered in our relationship. That shocked me because i was thinking i was deeply in love that time. This conservation was before i know about my disorder but i clearly remember it.
Also meeting new people or rebuilding my older friendships to get that supply for my inner demon, and try to care about them and connect with them seems very hard simply because i know that i want them in my life just for my needs. That knowloedge itself prevents that "real connection" that i try to build. I think my problem with connection to other people caused by my ego. I put myself above others so i cant really feel a connection. And i dont know how to maintain a connection when i simply look down on them.

zabi wrote:I genuinely know it doesnt matter. In fact -thanks to my disorder- i simply dont care other peoples opinion at most cases. BUT, it does matter to my inner demon. And thats a big impact on my life at the moment.
I am pretty sure that this narcisistic disorder wont disappear. I can live a normal, good life while thinking i am greater than any other. I can gain some more self-esteem. I can find people that will accept me as i am. But i cant live with this inner demon. I need to learn how to prevent it, make it weaker and more quiet. I need it to disappear or get smaller so i can just get out of my head and live a life, make some relationship and boost my ego. But first of all i need to handle with this inner demon.

This might sound crazy, and I dont want to make you more confused than you allready are. I think the demon, the thing that makes you crave attention and admiration, the self centered entity in relationships, the one preventing meaningful connection to others, looking down on them (all traits of the narcissistic personality) is what you think of as "I" now. What you think of as yourself is the demon. And the "you", the one accessible only in the internal voice, is the real you, being made to feel bad about youself, becouse the "I" is sadisitc and abusive, and unable to maintain the narcissistic defenses in your current period of depression and lack of supply. "When supply is low, the False Self is emaciated and dilapidated. It is unable to contain and repress the True Self which then emerges as a petulant, self-destructive, spoiled, and codependent entity." -Vaknin. Now I can only speak from personal experience, this is how the disorder unfolded for me. And it realy was like there were two selves.
Think about this, you know how demons are, they can decieve. Dont take for granted that you know, who the demon is.

Hey zabi,

You appear to be very self-aware, and I too was told I was special when I was younger; it can really screw with your head to be told this.

I don't understand where the just be evil comment came from since you can be special without being evil. Mozart, Einstein, Feynman, etc, many special people who weren't evil, but they were special, and accomplished much that most of us cannot. Now of course it can be hard to find out you aren't special, but if you are, use it for a good cause. Being special isn't a problem, but being special and using it for harm to others is.

Perhaps your biggest challenge will be needing that recharge, a confirmation of you are special. In and of itself it's not necessarily a problem. Where it gets to be a problem is damaging your relationships with others to get more of a fix, but you can reign that in.

AProphet wrote:
This might sound crazy, and I dont want to make you more confused than you allready are. I think the demon, the thing that makes you crave attention and admiration, the self centered entity in relationships, the one preventing meaningful connection to others, looking down on them (all traits of the narcissistic personality) is what you think of as "I" now. What you think of as yourself is the demon. And the "you", the one accessible only in the internal voice, is the real you, being made to feel bad about youself, becouse the "I" is sadisitc and abusive, and unable to maintain the narcissistic defenses in your current period of depression and lack of supply. "When supply is low, the False Self is emaciated and dilapidated. It is unable to contain and repress the True Self which then emerges as a petulant, self-destructive, spoiled, and codependent entity." -Vaknin. Now I can only speak from personal experience, this is how the disorder unfolded for me. And it realy was like there were two selves.
Think about this, you know how demons are, they can decieve. Dont take for granted that you know, who the demon is.

At first, i couldnt understand any single point you ve said . But after reading and translating what you wrote many times, i decided to look who Vaknin is. And i have to say this is a whole new level to see through. I just read a couple paragraphs of the book and i think i should read it completely.
As i said , i ve never looked at things from this angle. Anything else you can suggest me about exatcly this point of my problem ?

-- Thu May 23, 2019 6:44 am --

xdude wrote:
Perhaps your biggest challenge will be needing that recharge, a confirmation of you are special. In and of itself it's not necessarily a problem. Where it gets to be a problem is damaging your relationships with others to get more of a fix, but you can reign that in.

I dont know if i am really special or not. Being special is not a problem, but feeling special and constant need of approve to that is a problem in my life.
I am trying to figure out how to reign that in.

Yes, Vaknin's vision is piercing, isnt it. Like someone starting threw your soul. Theres clips of him reading from his book on youtube, you dont need everything, just the most important stuff. Also his chapter on empathy I found lacking. Be aware that you lack object relations, its a characteristic of the disorder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uunT2JV5EtM. Practicing this will help you reflect on the rest of your life, which looks you achieved a level of allready. Object relations is what started appearing for me first. Do you still think about your old friends and what happened? Try to see it again, in this new light. Focus on what they were feeling. You can actualy feel it for them, Its called emotional empathy. I had to learn all the feelings this way, becouse the feelings you are having now are not geniune. They are not the same feelings other people have. Empathy is key in reconstructing your personality I found. When you do this, you will be able to meaningfully relate to others. Do you by any chance possess the photographic memory, or what Vaknin calls "emotional resonance tables"? I used that to feel out all the repressed feelings. Now I make the dystinction between the true self and false self.
These are all capacities the false self Is incapable of. Find the one in your mind that is capable of that, and thats the real you. Another capacity thats lacking Is self-expression, expressing your feelings. This might be difficult, your soul right now is a cosmic void, emptyness and year of self-abandonment. But be brave and there is hope. If You dont want to stay like this, you dont have to.

You can look in my other threads for more details. Learn as much about the disorder, as you can, find what capacities you are lacking, becouse of it, and ask your therapist to practice those with you. Even if the disorder wont be totally eradicated, you will be able to maintain your functioning internally, without the need to prove to others, that you are special. You will just be special, just yourself.