Narcisistic Personaltiy Disorder and Its Effects

AProphet wrote:For you it should be the same way. The true self does all the feeling, reflecting and expressing itself, all capacities supressed by the disorder. Practice those capacities and your behavior should be gradualy modified. You will get to be yourself, not the attention seeking exploitative automaton - the false self or what Kernberg calls the pathological grandiose self, which replaces the true self in persons affected by the disorder. You will have to get back in touch with that.

Do you think that surpessed capacities of true self helps about reactions and thoughts when supply is low ? Because first of all, i want to achieve a state that i can live my day, do my stuff, simply dont get depressed or dont spend my days in bed jsut to wait for day to end ,when something happens that harms my ego or just supply is low. I am in a state that i cant compete with bad thoughts caused by smallest thing. Do you experienced this kind of situation? How do you handle when someone or something happens to harms your ego or how do you feel and what do you do when your supply is low or even zero? Did you regain some capacities of true self and how did that helped you as a pwNPD?

AProphet wrote:Well said, the way out is to FEEL it out. Becouse the true self has all the feelings, and learning the feelings and empathy will develop the part of you thats healthy, not the disorder. Tell me the dreams with all the details you remember.

My last dream was 4-5 days ago so i cant really remember it simply because i am feeling way better. But i remember some of them was about girls and how i make them fall in love with me, get them interested in me. I slightly remember another one where i kind of lead a group of people. And a nightmare, where my ex gf cheats me. Thats all i can remember right now if that helps.

Warning, personal spew forthcoming ...

In the end, what I think is true (and again no proof, just my thoughts) is that we learned you are not allowed to have feelings. We were valued for what we accomplished, what we did for others, so no big surprise we end up @!@@@! up. We don't even know how to feel without feeling guilty or shame or something else for it. And that's what we got and get rewarded for, an appearance of strength and to be good providers.

When I wrote in another thread I had enough, I am not going to work, man the crap hit the fan. My SO stopped loving me. Repeat of what I grew up with! But I wanted to find out, really put a dent in the situation, and it turns out my greatest fear was true all along, I love you for what you do for me.

The real sucky thing is we tend to pick others who care about us for what we do for them. It's unconscious. Then we get the guilt trip of you are being grandiose for having big dreams, for being narcissistic, now I want to change you into a non.

No particular point here other than we chose the NPD path because it was what were reward for, it's what others wanted, until they don't.

Stepping off of soap box.

AProphet wrote:Well said, the way out is to FEEL it out. Becouse the true self has all the feelings, and learning the feelings and empathy will develop the part of you thats healthy, not the disorder. Tell me the dreams with all the details you remember.

It's what were trained to do, shut off feelings, accomplish, and put on an air of self-confidence. We learned it so well (from day one), we don't even know how to feel. You are right though, the only way to get in touch with our true self is to feel it.

zabi wrote:Do you think that surpessed capacities of true self helps about reactions and thoughts when supply is low ? Because first of all, i want to achieve a state that i can live my day, do my stuff, simply dont get depressed or dont spend my days in bed jsut to wait for day to end ,when something happens that harms my ego or just supply is low. I am in a state that i cant compete with bad thoughts caused by smallest thing. Do you experienced this kind of situation? How do you handle when someone or something happens to harms your ego or how do you feel and what do you do when your supply is low or even zero? Did you regain some capacities of true self and how did that helped you as a pwNPD?

When supply is low, the capacities are not supressed and you should be able to develop them. Then, in time, you can achieve internal validation without the need for external affirmation. For immediate benefits to your daily functioning right now, you will have to secure new supply. You wish to do that in a less abusive and destructive manner, so just sympthom management. The therapy will help you with that.

For me it was a bit different, I was an inverted narcissist, the rarer and more insane type. This type doesnt seek attention and supply is being harmfull to yourself, demeaning yourself, hurting yourself, abusing drugs, lashing out at people who cared. I was hurt when I did it, but I was totally disintegrating without hurting myself, not being able to perform daily tasks. It was automatic, I wasnt aware I was doing it. It still feels realy bad what I did and how insane I was, but I solved my problem the way I describe it. There is no need for supply now, I can just be myself.

Idk about the small things putting you off balance. Loosing my first love to a mental illness was extremely traumatic so, doing the small things came with extreme difficulty, just spent my time feeling bad. Harms your ego, you mean like narcissistic injury? paralyzing, intrusive thought of the situation, very painful, when your not infallible? The other thing you are feeling, extreme worthlessness and hopelessness acompanied with lack of external affirmation. Is that what your feeling? Becouse I cant feel that anymore. You have to find the one who has the real feelings. Idk how I did it I just wanted to understand what was wrong with me, and when I understood changing was painful, but it came naturally, I just trusted my intuition. I learned empathy from the girl, I remembered everytime I saw her. I never had real feelings like that. I wouldnt know they existed. grief, excitement, remorse, fear, jelously, disgust, sorrow, regret. These were all new to me, so Im sure it was actualy my true self feeling them. My emotional depth as pwNPD was extremely shallow. So after regaining these capacities, understanding who the real me is, there is no more problem. Was able to reflect on the rest of my life and modify my behavior. Im just mysel now.

The dreams sounds like what you are craving (attention from girls, to be the leading man, making everyone laugh). Ive had those in the past. Never had the one about envy.

xdude wrote:
... it turns out my greatest fear was true all along, I love you for what you do for me.

Exactly. And this kind of behaviour makes your expectaions -from other people - very high and unrealistic. And these relationships meant to get destroyed. They cant last long. And an end of a relationship where you picked your partner based on their behaviour against you -a narcisistic supply-,
harms you most. Losing a friend or partner who is a great source of narcistic supply is nothing to wish for for us.

AProphet wrote:When supply is low, the capacities are not supressed and you should be able to develop them. Then, in time, you can achieve internal validation without the need for external affirmation. For immediate benefits to your daily functioning right now, you will have to secure new supply. You wish to do that in a less abusive and destructive manner, so just sympthom management. The therapy will help you with that.

I think i need more immediate solutions, like you said, securing a new source of supply. But i dont wanna feel or act like an addict -to these supplies- I dont wanna waste my days in bed , simply because i have no supply at the moment. The way get my supplies may be manageable by the time or therapy. But i want to work on how to fucntion during times that supply is nearly zero.

AProphet wrote:Idk about the small things putting you off balance. Loosing my first love to a mental illness was extremely traumatic so, doing the small things came with extreme difficulty, just spent my time feeling bad. Harms your ego, you mean like narcissistic injury? paralyzing, intrusive thought of the situation, very painful, when your not infallible? The other thing you are feeling, extreme worthlessness and hopelessness acompanied with lack of external affirmation. Is that what your feeling? Becouse I cant feel that anymore. You have to find the one who has the real feelings.

Imagine studying for an exam. And one of the topics are very hard for you, you cant understand it by yourself-eventhough you should be oing school and learning from your teacher- That little spark starts the bad thoughts engine. If i cant suppress the thoughts they will consume me. All day long -sometimes even weeks- bad thoguhts about me will surround my mind. I cant do anything , just spend the days laying around or wasting my time. It is like there is no other world other than my mind. I stay there fight with the bad paranoid thoughts . I dont communicate with people, i dont even get up to eat.Probably first of my moves should be making a source of supply immidietaly. But i dont want to be this addicted to these supplies. And i dont know how to listen to my real emotions-true self- and use them to heal my needs for supplies, or help me deal with it during low supplies.
The way you -or the internet, even Vaknin- describing how i mimic emotions and dont own them as a person, i dont think i can really imagine that. I know its suppose to be this way but i cnat believe that emotions that i had were not real. But i experienced these once in a time. Seeing a movie alone or listening to a new song. I dont know if i liked it or not. I seriously do not know. Is this something that you were experiencing too ?

AProphet wrote:The dreams sounds like what you are craving (attention from girls, to be the leading man, making everyone laugh). Ive had those in the past. Never had the one about envy.

Past couple months, i was acting a way taht i really didnt wanted to. After my breakup -huge loss on a source- the way i talk and act against other people was so humilliating for me. I had no supply to work with and i had no friends etc. I tried to meet new people. I wanted to gain them so quickly that during meetings online, i was acting like psychopats. Whatever they say or do all i want was to get something from them. A compliment, a praise whatever. I just looked like a weirdo. And then i stopped it after some time.I guess thats why i see that kind of dreams beacuse iam not looking for them for almost six months -girls and people who follows me- .
I thougt if i can gain some self-esteem, i wouldnt crave this much for attention from others. But it didnt go as planned. My need of supply was -is- so big that i didnt have a chance to do sth for myself. I started to go to gym , but quited it very shortly after. Started reading, didnt last for 3 days. The bad mood during the absence of any supplies was -is- very strong for me to funciton for anything else. It still is but i have some future plans i am working on to boost me , and i somewhat get daily sources that helps me. But since i am working on my new life, i really dont want my plans to get interrupted by these kind of crap. All i want to do is manage my mood, even look for some supplies -with more humane ways- when i have no supply. I dont want my cravings to be this strong.

zabi wrote:The way you -or the internet, even Vaknin- describing how i mimic emotions and dont own them as a person, i dont think i can really imagine that. I know its suppose to be this way but i cnat believe that emotions that i had were not real. But i experienced these once in a time. Seeing a movie alone or listening to a new song. I dont know if i liked it or not. I seriously do not know. Is this something that you were experiencing too ?

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Yes. I wouldnt know I dont have empathy, becouse I faked empathy, to get supply. It was enormously decieving. Fooled another narcissist not so long ago, even he realy thought I cared.
Idk how far the emotions are faked, are they faked fully or partialy. But the emotions you do have now are extremely shallow and primitive. Theres a lot more to emotion than what you think right now. I cried on movies, I thought its being emotional but it was shallow.

I think there's two possible ways to look at this more constructively.
The first one is to simply see it as an addiction. So skipping all the narcissism and depression etc. and just seeing you have for some reason become addicted to what you call "supply" and its made it impossible for you [over time] to feel good in its absence. Then the only thing is to go cold turkey and to endure the withdrawal symptoms. If you say you dont want to feel that strong craving thats understandable, but thats not up to you to decide really. Your decision is if you decide to tolerate it. Also from another perspective, namely if you find a new source of "supply", then you might start getting high again and suddenly your motivation to get therapy etc. might disappear.
The other approach would be to figure out what exactly you mean by "supply". "Narcissistic supply" isnt a term thats used a lot in psychology and, from a personal perspective. doesnt ring a lot of bells. It is very abstract though, so I'd try to make this more concrete. When you say you want praise, for what exactly? What works for you? What doesnt? If someone praises how awesome your feet look is that the same thing like if someone tells you how nice your voice is? How great you were at your job? From who? Etc. Theres going to be a lot of question-marks, but in this way you can get a bit of a clearer picture of what you are lacking, or what you - for whatever reason - have to let other people decide for you. In some way this might also give you the opportunity to find stuff that caters to the same internal places. Which maybe can be combined with certain CBT approaches even.

Akuma wrote:I think there's two possible ways to look at this more constructively.
The first one is to simply see it as an addiction. So skipping all the narcissism and depression etc. and just seeing you have for some reason become addicted to what you call "supply" and its made it impossible for you [over time] to feel good in its absence. Then the only thing is to go cold turkey and to endure the withdrawal symptoms. If you say you dont want to feel that strong craving thats understandable, but thats not up to you to decide really. Your decision is if you decide to tolerate it. Also from another perspective, namely if you find a new source of "supply", then you might start getting high again and suddenly your motivation to get therapy etc. might disappear.

It exactly like an addiction. But the withdrawal sypmtomps are very strong for me to endure. Like a heroine addict, i cant function at all during lack of supplies. Also my motivation to get my therapy is disappearing when i am at this state. If i get depressed like i said, i would -and did- call my therapist and postpone our session. I know getting some new sources of supplies might get me high again, but for now i cant trust myself to endure what happens if i dont get any.

Akuma wrote:The other approach would be to figure out what exactly you mean by "supply". "Narcissistic supply" isnt a term thats used a lot in psychology and, from a personal perspective. doesnt ring a lot of bells. It is very abstract though, so I'd try to make this more concrete. When you say you want praise, for what exactly? What works for you? What doesnt? If someone praises how awesome your feet look is that the same thing like if someone tells you how nice your voice is? How great you were at your job? From who? Etc. Theres going to be a lot of question-marks, but in this way you can get a bit of a clearer picture of what you are lacking, or what you - for whatever reason - have to let other people decide for you. In some way this might also give you the opportunity to find stuff that caters to the same internal places. Which maybe can be combined with certain CBT approaches even.

When i say supplies, everything does the work for me -in different levels-. The situations where i think i deserve attention and praise for, are the most powerful supplies for me. - if i think i look good , i want to hear that i am indeed looking good ,for example. I dont think my voice is any good, so getting a compliment about my voice is still gives me something to play with but in a short time or in a low level.
The praises or compliments should be credible and convincing. So getting a compliment about how my feet looks is no use. In fact , i would think that the person who complimented my feet is making fun of me in a way.
To sum up both of the paragraphs for a clearer look; I wake up one day, get dressed, make my hair etc. Leave the house thinking i look good ,feeling sharp. All i think about is will people notice how good i look. And when they notice, will they give me a compliment? If they do so,everything is great. But if no one is there to give me a compliment about something i was proud of, thats where i lose it all. The next day, probably i would spend my day in bed, fight with bad thoughts . For another example, when i am in a group of people, if my jokes or questions stays unanswered mostly, or not get any attention it should be, same result happens. And i can not deal with this on my own right now.

Yes, it is like an addiction. Whetever we call it supply or external validation is not the point. Without it you get withdrawal sympthoms. For me for example enduring abuse and feelings bad was way more endurable than lack of supply (inverted narissist). Be carefull not to treat your therapist as a source of attention, work on your issues.

Hmm I cant relate to this physical kind of thing at all. We had a dude here, covertunsure I think, who always was obsessing about his looks, too; he always wanted everyone to "ogle" at him and think he "looks like Goerge Clooney"; if people didnt look at him he was convinced that was because they didnt like how he looked etc. I think he was a bit more complicated tho and he got worse also when he got his attention after a while. Wonder what happened to him anyways, he hasnt been here a while.

All i think about is will people notice how good i look. And when they notice, will they give me a compliment? If they do so,everything is great. But if no one is there to give me a compliment about something i was proud of, thats where i lose it all.

I asked that dude several times and I dont think I ever got a clear answer, so same question to you. If youre leaving the house and youre consciously and more or less actively thinking about and creating the expectation of getting complimented (maybe with some anxiousness about if it will happen), then why not stop doing it? If you're thinking and conscious then its something that can be controlled, so why not work on reducing those thoughts first?