NPD - Who is the one abused?

Akuma wrote:Just that you are feeling something doesnt mean its real. Theres people that are totally afraid of elevators or spiders, yet elevators and spiders pose no intrinsic danger. Just because you feel that someone likes you doesnt mean they like you, and especially it doesnt mean that you can feel something for them, since you are seperate people. So basically that girl never spoke to you, yet you are convinced she loved you and was heartbroken, and that friend of yours, too didnt say what you think he said, but you imagined this by the way he looked.

You are totally stupid about feelings and I would expect nothing less. Exactly what I would expect from someone who has NO genuine feelings of her own. The collection of defense mechanisms constituting what you have come to think is your personality and what I came to call "the false self" simulates the feeling and its afect, instead of feeling it. I dont blame you, its enormously decieving. But those are not the same feelings other people have, you can switch from one feelings to another in an instant and the positive ones come bundled with negative ones. Some people in fact do get panic attacks and feint in closed spaces and near spiders, you can say its not dangerous, or that definitions of what is real are extremely broad. Is the physical sensation of heartbreak not real? The brain registers it as physical pain google says. Wasnt realy that I was in agony, not being able to get out of bed from the remorse of how I treated her? That I had overwhelming urge to kill myself, to overdose. That I had no attention span, not being able to eat or do simple body maintenance. Was real enough for me. You said its impossible to feel for another (seperate) person. I have no doubt its impossible for YOU, as pwNPD. Its actualy emotional contagion, a constituent of emotional empathy:

"Emotional contagion is the phenomenon of having one person's emotions and related behaviors directly trigger similar emotions and behaviors in other people. One view developed by Elaine Hatfield, et al., is that this can be done through automatic mimicry and synchronization of one's expressions, vocalizations, postures and movements with those of another person.[1] When people unconsciously mirror their companions' expressions of emotion, they come to feel reflections of those companions' emotions.[1] Emotions can be shared across individuals in many different ways both implicitly or explicitly."

"Affective empathy, also called emotional empathy:[25] the capacity to respond with an appropriate emotion to another's mental states.[24] Our ability to empathize emotionally is based on emotional contagion:[25] being affected by another's emotional or arousal state.[26]"

The human capacity to recognize the bodily feelings of another is related to one's imitative capacities, and seems to be grounded in an innate capacity to associate the bodily movements and facial expressions one sees in another with the proprioceptive feelings of producing those corresponding movements or expressions oneself.[21] - this is how I knew what he was "saying". Becouse he was laughing at me. How stupid I am. There is many ways to express yourself. Not everything has to be done verbally.

So yes I knew EVERYTIME she was in love, becouse I had photographic memory of her mental state. I didnt need to ask. I just needed empathy. And I couldnt ask, becouse that way we might actualy be together. And with object constancy it was even more obvious - for example waiting for me in the same place she first confessed her love multiple times.

Akuma wrote:From my perspective your tight grip on all those psychological words to describe you and your experiences is not insight but an attempt to keep your self together

Unfortunately Akuma, You lack the genuine insight required to understand how much this applies to you. I removed the apostrophy on purpose, maybe you can at least tell me the reason why?
It would mean a lot. That you do understand something.

Now notice: I shared almost all my most intimate details and you know nothing about me still. Not understanding anything and even denying my experience is real. While you shared almost nothing except textbook knowledge and insults, and I understand EVERYTHING about you. Thats becouse you have no genuine insight. And Thats becouse I was the same way as you, and I developed genuine insight. And the reason for it is that everything you came to think about yourself Is a confabulation. An adaptive reaction to extract attention. And that there IS NOTHING to know about you more than that. No depth or personality, just what I have come to call the false self.


Now I know what you will say in response to that. That I am the problem and damaged. Always other people are the problem to the NPD. Never a problem with himself. Even though you are the one lashing out. Not being civil.

If your aim isn’t to look like a fruit loop bud, I’d seriously consider putting down the shovel.

AcidProphet wrote:And with object constancy it was even more obvious - for example waiting for me in the same place she first confessed her love multiple times.

Isn´t that like...you know...location constancy?

Parts of this thread remind me of so much of my teenage myself. I used to think there was some way of tapping into my true emotions..."if only I could make myself really understand how much she cares about me". I thought that showing up to her doorstep for the 10th time after an intense fight was fighting for the relationship, when it was just my stubborness. When we finally broke up for the umpteenth time, but she initiated the break in a final manner from her positon, I didn´t have the slightest clue about how she would feel about it and nor did I care. From where I was concerned, I still loved (read: needed) her and wanted her back, regardless of her finalistic attitude about the whole situation, whereas I had done most everything prior to give her the cold shoulder while in the relationship.

Any attempt at positing ´empathy´ where there is just some form of narrow vague understanding of other people´s states of mind, is just quackery. I grew up thinking I was the most empathetic person there is. What I believed made me empathetic turned out to just be my way of getting along with people, being harmless and unoffending. The more I wanted someone´s approval and admiration (confused with love), the more I tried my best to please them and suck up my pride.

AcidProphet wrote:

Akuma wrote:From my perspective your tight grip on all those psychological words to describe you and your experiences is not insight but an attempt to keep your self together

Now I know what you will say in response to that. That I am the problem and damaged. Always other people are the problem to the NPD. Never a problem with himself. Even though you are the one lashing out. Not being civil.

That, my friend, is the clearest sign of projection right there at the end. You are seeing everyone else as the problem that do not confirm your beliefs of what reality constitutes

I suspect Akuma is right on point, as I´ve been through a very similar thought process, as you. Everything you´ve typed is a clear indication that you are very much denial and looking for a way out of this predicament (or as Akuma would put it, a magic pill). There is an unimaginable sense of disbelief at what the actual truth of the matter is. Nobody but yourself and time can make you snap out of this resistance so anything others say is futile.

Oh my gad you guys are so hopeless. Im not even reading It selfserf, I know your just circlejerking. I took the time to read your life story, and you didnt even respond to my questions. I cant belive I was so insuffereable once. Why are you here If you dont want to change and learn. You are just proving my first post from the thread, everything they say in the commends about "narcs" is true. Facts dont matter, feelings arent real, empathy doesnt exist, wikipedia is wrong. So dissapointing.

Well, if through the help of DMT you truly had a way of seeing the situations with a sense of empathy for HER, reliving them and actually now feel remorse about hurting HER feelings, instead of feeling that YOU messed up and feel down about your own bad feelings about your self, that would be amazing in and of itself.I am hesitant to believe that is what you are describing, because remorse would necessitate a sense of responsibility.

Could you honestly see yourself asking her for forgiveness, with the caveat that it is not for YOU, i.e. trying to get back in her good graces but for her, whatever its worth.

Even with suspending my disbelief I must admit the diatribe of false self/true self was slightly too difficult for me to follow as it lacked a certain cohesion to it.

I was given DMT to smoke once many years ago and unfortunately it did not help me gain any sense of spirituality, it actually made my ego go into full-on berserk mode and is one of the reasons my grandiose sense of self escalated The reasons I did it were also inherently wrong. It was mainly to gain the experience, ´to own it´. So that I could tell myself and the world (now I have used the most amazing drug possible) the good intention was not there so maybe that is the reason it did not help me.

SelfSerf wrote:Well, if through the help of DMT you truly had a way of seeing the situations with a sense of empathy for HER, reliving them and actually now feel remorse about hurting HER feelings, instead of feeling that YOU messed up and feel down about your own bad feelings about your self, that would be amazing in and of itself.I am hesitant to believe that is what you are describing, because remorse would necessitate a sense of responsibility.

I reread your previous post becouse this ment a lot that you are able to take my perspective. Yes, that is what I think I did. I followed my intuition. The dmt was just an aid in the process of learning the feelings and empathy. I feel remorse becouse she tried to do anything for me and I didnt care, just kept hurting her, untill her heart broke. Treating her like she doesnt exist to the all-important person. The one she was in love with. The one who had so much power over her. And she never hurt me even once while she was in love. Just kept trying to save me. Only kept me alive that I had no choice. I swear I would kill myself before she fell in love with me If I knew how ###$ up I was to her and all the other girls.

*mod edit* Meditate, pray for help, say you want to change and will do anything to do so. I wish I had done that. And belive me it will be worth it, now when I can see clearly the way I was. Unfortunately no solution to NPD is easy. You need to look at the radical ones.

SelfSerf wrote: and actually now feel remorse about hurting HER feelings, instead of feeling that YOU messed up and feel down about your own bad feelings about your self, that would be amazing in and of itself.

I understand why you said "amazing". Becouse you are not able to feel remorse. Its one of the deeper emotions, totally unaccessable to pwNPD. And I wasnt too eather. But Im sure of it now. On the dmtnexus chat, twice on seperate occasions i heard the words "your remorse is commendable".

I will try to evidence you further why I actualy am learning the emotions. This is extermely intimate and I do for you, and everyone her on the forum, becouse I know our predicament. I smoked some weed and tried playing games, but was overcome by intense emotion, unable to focus. Im shaken and punking.

The way she looked at me.... after I broke her heart, after ALL the times I ignored her completely and walk up with my vulnerable self to her, a 4 year old boy. Totally drunk and stupid with love. She knew right away, the way she looked at me... At first I thought it was anger. Enragingly stupid. The one she fell in love with was enragengly stupid. No it wasnt anger. It was disgust, I was a disgusting monster, a retard, biggest idiot in the universe, totally hated me COULDNT BELIVE WHAT SHE WANTED TO DO FOR AN IDIOT LIKE THAT, HOW WRONG SHE WAS, thried to dump her boyfirend, her best friend, break his heart just so I get to see her confession.... anything, anything just becouse she fell in love with ME., And instead gets to be with him and love him just becose he cared, AND I COULDNT CARE IM SO JEALOUS AND DISGUSTED., wanted to trust her feelings, only to not break her heart... IM SO DISGUSTED A RETARD WORSET PEERSON SHE EVER MET, THE ONE SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH OH MY GOD I WOUDLTN SURVIVE THIS I SWEAR IM SO SO DISGUSTED I WOULDNT SURVIVE UNLESS I KNEW THAT IT WASNT ME, THAT I NEVER EXISTED. Just the false self the automatic narcissistic defenses. THAT I GET TO BE THIS PERSON TO THE GIRL I LOVED. MY FIRST LOVE IN 29 YEARS. "YOUR LOVE IS CHEAP, YOU CAN LOVE ANY GIRL" I WAS IN LOVE IT WAS IMPORTANT IN THAT MOMENT SHE MENT EVEERYTHINMG. A GREAT CRIME AGAINST MYSELF AND AGAINST THE UNIVERSE AND I WAS UNABLE TO SEE IT. I WONT FORGIVE MYSSELF UNLESS I CAN HAVE ANOTHER GIRL LOVE ME FOREVER, LIKE SHE WOULD, AND IT WAS THE SIMPLE THING. And I Instad went to extreme lenghts to hurt myself and the girl, break both our hearts. But I got to feel her heart breaking (we dont want her to be with us) when I was in love with her. I felt it breaking. AND IT WAS THE WORST OF THE FEELINGS. IT WAS ENDLESS AGONY. BUT I HAD TO LEARN EMPATHY FIRST AND REMEMBERED WHAT SHE FELT EXACTLY.

Please dont scream at me that Its caps, Im not in a stable emotional state right now (and since forever). IM SCREAMING IN DISGUST NOW ITS UNCONTROLLABLE. Oh my god the stigma of mentall illness that makes you look like an complete idiot. Its so painfull even still. She will never understand it was all on purpose?? who hates love on purpose?? WHO?? totally inimaginable to anyone. She didnt know I was in love the whole time, just never existed. The worst person she ever met, the one she fell in love with... not even a person at all. She cant imagine nightmares like that exist. Endless nightmare, where your dream confesses her love to you, and your in love with her. but you Almost die becouse of it.

Oh my god only thing giving me solace right now IS THAT IT WASNT ALL FOR NOTHING. That If we just had our perfect love, none of us would get to experiance the negative emotions. Grieff ("the price for love" -quoting Chris Hedges) , sorrow, and a heartbreak. The universe is wise in that sence, it gives you what you need to learn, to grow as a person. My gift to her, the negative emotions. And that I wouldnt want to be with a codependant anyway. We'd have to do everything together, AND THAT I DONT ######6 NEED EXTREMEM HAPPYNESS. JUST SOME WILL BE FINE. IM SO ######6 ANGRY. AND THAT ONLY THIS CAN SAVE YOU FROM ######6 NARCISSISM. Humility like that. That you are nothing.

I know this is rather late but just a note to the OP. I'm not a narc but I've known at least two fairly closely, both of who I got/get along with just fine, even great. That's probably in part because they recognize themselves as narcs and in part because they appreciated me treating them non-judgmentally.

You are absolutely right that the popular reaction to narcs in various blogs, youtube clips etc is ludicrous. It's one thing to make people aware of the risks of getting involved with a narc, it's quite another to demonize narcs as if they were the devil's incarnations. It's laughable. Narcs are people who bear an immense cross on their shoulders, like anyone who has suffered from neglect, abandonment or abuse in their childhoods. Their behavior has its origin in their own suffering.

I despise this need to demonize. It's pervasive in all aspects of life. People demonize others for their political views, for their religion, their sexual orientation, for mistakes they made, etc etc.

Just know that there are some who are different. I think your best bet, as far as relationships go, is to look for people smart and open-minded enough to remain non-judgmental and to learn about your personality. Just be honest and eventually you'll find friends who will treat you with respect and who deserve to be treated likewise. Same goes for any romantic prospects. Just be open and honest at the beginning of any relationship. You will lose some but the one you gain will be worth it.

As for the online noise, just ignore it.

"recovering from narcissistic abuse" means poor empaths recovering from their"narc", not me waking up from the nightmare of self abuse. Nobody cares you were abused, that we are guided by factors laregely outside our control, its you thats the problem. Recovering from being a "narc" is not even considered possible.

I just explained to a psychiatrist that I had a false self, and even the psych looked at me with pitty. "The false one, you say" (wow, this one realy is insane). I had her love, with her telling me its ok I could do anything, she would believe it all. Im so lonely.