NPD - Who is the one abused?

SelfSerf, were you in love with any of those girls?

AcidProphet wrote:Its extremely dissapointing becouse you have a lot of posts and been giving advice to many people. I guess it is stupid to come to a forum for NPD and expect empathy. But thats not what I was expecting. Im not an attention whore anymore.

The problem is that you seem to be having a distorted idea of NPD in your mind that you map to whatever experience you think you have, so trying to discuss this makes no sense because you are working with wrong assumptions.
For example, one of your assumptions seems to be that there is some sort of true self hidden inside of you, but first of all that is not how the terminology is psychologically used, secondly that in itself is a narcissistic concept, because its a childish, idealized thing that doesnt exist - plus its exactly dependence on such an idealized, internal object - and btw magical pills and idealized drug entities are the same category -, which is a big part of what comprises [grandiose] personality pathology. So depending on such a thing is just another color of what you've been depending on before. In Meltzerian terms all you have done is moved into another chamber of the claustrum.
But basically NPD is about disconnection, about distrust and about an inability to depend, including feeling unable to be part of a group. This in itself is already reason enough why looking for camaraderie is unrealistic, because pwNPD cant feel this sort of thing. So learning to depend on a therapist for exampel is exactly the opposite of the narcissistic option and I would think that - even if I am unsure if your problems are essentially NPDish - your strong unwillingness and your reinterpretation of the internal situation are part of your fear to do exactly that.

Im not posting "insufferable sob stories" to elicit attention. Is that all you took away from it?

You seem to be unaware of how egocentric your writing is. You come here and start puking your "insights" all over the place, which is a random assortment of apparently intense emotion for "people" that remain utterly onedimensional even after your supposed insights, hollow pop-psych concepts you seem to have drawn from a random assortment of questionable sources and thought processes that you admit where started by drugs. If you expect to be taken seriously, you have chosen a funny approach.

Its well known that the narcissist posseses a prominent false self and a dysfunctional nonexistant true self. How can you have 1500+ posts and not be familiar with that?
https://youtu.be/ZFahESPWgbU?t=81
Its not assumptions, its insights. Its not grandiosity, its self reflection. Something I did not possess before.

You were right about the therapist though. Would help me with the lonelyness a lot.

Most theorists and researchers do not use this terminology at all. And from a therapeutic context its not a useful concept either, because its too meta.
You are implying an interesting thing though, namely that you dont have a self and then you have somehow build that self up yourself. Hows that supposed to work, considering that personality structure is largely based on introjective processes which are blocked by the identification- and defense-processes which NPD can be formulated to be based upon?

... I see you have posted Sam Vaknin. Sam Vaknin is a diagnosed Sociopath and a manipulator who makes money with his half-knowledge. He's not a professional, nor a diagnosed pwNPD.

Actually if you want a good starting point, Elsa Ronningstam seems to still be the best bet I think, if noone else has something more accessible.

I knew that there is two selves from internal monologue. "WE dont want her to be with US". "YOUR love is cheap". And from dreams - two of me in a dream, one standing next to me and beating me up, hurting me, a recurring dream. (And from the entities). Firstly I thought the other self is just a fragmentary consciousness, a self hating aspect. I was horrified to learn that there is a false self, that everything I thought of as myself was a lie, and that it does not love her. Only my true self was in love - I wouldnt know my personality existed if not for that one feeling.

-- Thu May 02, 2019 10:49 am --

Sam Vaknin is a diagnosed Sociopath and a manipulator who makes money with his half-knowledge. He's not a professional, nor a diagnosed pwNPD.

Wiki says right away that he was diagnosed in 1985. Im sorry, but its your facts that are questionable.

I respect Sam. Imagine thinking you are slightly pathological, a ###$ but somewhat unique and then finding youtube videos that describe you in 99%. Staring threw your soul like that. Becouse all narcissists think they are unique, but are exactly the same.

AcidProphet wrote:I knew that there is two selves from internal monologue. "WE dont want her to be with US". "YOUR love is cheap". And from dreams - two of me in a dream, one standing next to me and beating me up, hurting me, a recurring dream. (And from the entities). Firstly I thought the other self is just a fragmentary consciousness, a self hating aspect. I was horrified to learn that there is a false self, that everything I thought of as myself was a lie, and that it does not love her. Only my true self was in love - I wouldnt know my personality existed if not for that one feeling.

Such perceptions can be a result of Splitting. The true self / false self dichotomy is really just an abstraction; it was originally used by Donald Winnicott to differentiate between the biological drives and the individual blocks to act those out naturally. While you seem to have found some peace through attributing a "false self" to your experiences, as I said its not a concept that is widely used in the context of NPD.

Wiki says right away that he was diagnosed in 1985. Im sorry, but its your facts that are questionable.

There is a documentary about him called "I, Psychopath". When you're bored one day, watch it. Still though, when you are interested in a field like this, you would do good to use sources by people who have actually studied the disorder or who have treated people with it.

So Sam Vaknin was an asshole, big surprise. I was a asshole, monster, idiot, lashing out at the ones that want to help me, save me, love me, didnt care that I would be hurt myself. NPD makes you into a monster like that. You have no awareness that thats what you do. Some monster are just more succesfull socialy then others. He doesnt belive that the true self can be revived but I do. Thats what I think I did.

The only true reason in my mind to call Vaknin a quack is how overly negative and damning his writings are. To someone recovering from a relationship, perhaps there might be some benefit but a narcissist attempting to find help in therapy, I would say steer clear from Vaknin´s writings. Or those of H.G.Tudor. It might be duplicitous of me to say so but I don´t think congratulating yourself on your twisted nature is the way to go.

They are both completely immersed in the NPD storyline of their own that they have created which is another trait of pwNPD - sculpting their own understanding of the world to a similar extent someone with Asperger´s would, being completely pleased with their original understanding and it´s potential incompatibility with the reality shared with others.

I don´t personally have doubts that Vaknin he is a narcissist. Anyone that has a mixture of NPD and ASPD would be on the spectrum be somewhere close to sociopathy.

AcidProphet wrote:So Sam Vaknin was an asshole, big surprise. I was a asshole, monster, idiot, lashing out at the ones that want to help me, save me, love me, didnt care that I would be hurt myself. NPD makes you into a monster like that.

NPD doesnt necessarily make you malignant, thats actually a relatively rare subform... but you sound confused and not really interested in information, so whatever. Still, you say you dont want attention, you dont seem to want pity either at least you seem to deny that, and you also imply that you cured yourself. So then what are you doing here?

SelfSerf wrote:I don´t personally have doubts that Vaknin he is a narcissist. Anyone that has a mixture of NPD and ASPD would be on the spectrum be somewhere close to sociopathy.

The guy actually got almost the highscore on the psychopathy scale when I remember correctly. I was amused by how surprised he was about that.

Yes i guess I wasnt malignant. But certainly was pathological. I dont know for certain that I have cured myself. They say its not curable. That nobody ever saw a cured narcissist. Ill have to see long term. I only know I have a true self now, am not an attention seeking automaton anymore. And the false self Is far weaker but still takes over in social situations. When friends come over I become "haha be in awe of my insanity. the most insane person. Bony was in love with him and he broke her heart. She thought im the biggest idiot. If I was the biggest idiot it would be amazing." It looks strange sometimes. Im In total despair and then uncontrollably smiling becouse someoene is giving me attention. But realy the shame is killing me still.

Im here to talk about experiences, is that so strange? Is that so unimaginable to pwNPD? I have my interpretation of events, maybe someone can interpret them in a different way. Were you in love with any of them selfserf? About Vaknin - yes he takes on the twisted perspective of the NPD, the way it sees itself. To me now its a clown and insufferable, nothing is serious. Was a joke that the girl suffered. Lets go confess our love now, when she hates us. And lash out becouse she doesnt appreciate.

And anyway I just posted Vaknin's video becouse I knew the quote from it. "its common knowledge".
I dont agree on everything. For example he says the reason NPD hates love is becouse he is a confabulation, and doesnt like to be known. There are no reasons. Its an automaton. You dont think at all. Everything you "think" is just a justification of what the false self is going to do. I know for a fact that the girl I loved didnt exist becouse my false self couldnt allow me to feel, it was too scarry. "Hated" (it cant realy hate, it has no feelings) me for being in love, for feeling anything at all. Hated the dmt, it made me feel. Feeling was not allowed becouse your mom hurt you and it was a matter of survival to not feel.