Do you get fed up pretending to be empathetic?

AProphet wrote:

Akuma wrote:

Spaced wrote:
The irony of NPD talking about empathy. I challenge any of you pwNPD's to define empathy for me.

LOL. I loved this thanks for the laugh

Yes I do get annoyed when pretending to be empathetic. I do have to actively act as if I would care.

ThisEndUp wrote:

AProphet wrote:

Spaced wrote:
The irony of NPD talking about empathy. I challenge any of you pwNPD's to define empathy for me.

LOL. I loved this thanks for the laugh

You'll have to explain the joke to me becouse I dont get it . I posted about emotional and cognitive empathy before. Maybe first try to define what you are talking about. Empathy is not about faking "caring" for others. WIthout emotional empathy you cannot understand another person at all.

AProphet wrote:You'll have to explain the joke to me becouse I dont get it . I posted about emotional and cognitive empathy before. Maybe first try to define what you are talking about. Empathy is not about faking "caring" for others. WIthout emotional empathy you cannot understand another person at all.

The joke/irony is that the question is like asking a group of blind people to describe sight The assumption being people with NPD have no empathy.

Jokes aside, I do agree with people with NPD can have empathy, maybe more on the cognitive side, but it's there in some.

I also think you are on the right track. Confusing the "caring for other's" part with the understanding others part. From other's point of view though, there is no practical difference. I am going to go out on a limb and throw out a thought, could be wrong, but...

For all the cluster B types (maybe not entirely true for some of the AsPD types), they've already spent much of their childhood life doing for others. It's how they got to be valued. It's a not a big surprise then if someone arrives at a point of I know what others want, but I am tired of giving it, what I want/need matters too, and I must fight to get it. Others may perceive this as selfishness, or use guilt trips to get what they want.

On a personal level, where I draw the lines is trying to figure out, is my want actually hurting you, or are you hurt that you didn't get what you wanted from me? The later is not empathetic either.

xdude wrote:

AProphet wrote:You'll have to explain the joke to me becouse I dont get it . I posted about emotional and cognitive empathy before. Maybe first try to define what you are talking about. Empathy is not about faking "caring" for others. WIthout emotional empathy you cannot understand another person at all.

The joke/irony is that the question is like asking a group of blind people to describe sight The assumption being people with NPD have no empathy.

Ok. There is this angle to that. Although anyone can read about how something works (empathy), and understand that it does not work that way for him, right? On the more serious side.

AProphet wrote:Ok. There is this angle to that. Although anyone can read about how something works (empathy), and understand that it does not work that way for him, right? On the more serious side.

Philosophical rant -

In the end, 'empathy' is just a word, a word we humans made up to express an idea, that not everyone agrees on anyway. I try not to get hung up on definitions, because there is no entirely agreed on definition.

I think it's also a mucked up word, because it has at least two meanings in other's minds, maybe more than two, but two stand out.

1.) The ability to understand if I was in another person's place, I would feel x, y, z. Aka cognitive empathy.

2.) The ability or want to act on #1, or at least feel as the other person would.

No matter how someone defines it though, sometimes others tend to mean both, both that someone can relate, and that others act on the understanding. Sometimes, because that's not always true. I do think, no proof, but just my thought, that there are many others who are not looking for any handouts. They just want to know that their SOs can relate. They aren't necessarily looking for any action. This is where it gets mucked up too, because of over analysis, I can't do anything for you, so empathy is BS. I don't believe that is true. But for children who grew up in households where they had to perform, one can believe that's what other's want, and they do, but most adults are actually fine with I understand you can't give me what I want, I just want to know you understand what I want, and why.

TL;DR version - #1 is often good enough. All it takes a bit of #2, expression of I get what you feel, but no action needed.

p.s. Some people are incapable of cognitive empathy. It's a mental blindness. Happens, but it's hopefully uncommon.

xdude wrote:1.) The ability to understand if I was in another person's place, I would feel x, y, z. Aka cognitive empathy.

2.) The ability or want to act on #1, or at least feel as the other person would.

No matter how someone defines it though, sometimes others tend to mean both, both that someone can relate, and that others act on the understanding. Sometimes, because that's not always true. I do think, no proof, but just my thought, that there are many others who are not looking for any handouts. They just want to know that their SOs can relate. They aren't necessarily looking for any action. This is where it gets mucked up too, because of over analysis, I can't do anything for you, so empathy is BS.

Empathy definitely requires an empathetic action (it is confusing that the word empathy is sometimes used to describe the mere ability to detect people's states of mind/emotions) but it does not need to be a practical action/advice. For instance, it could be that you are supporting someone through a difficult time by conversing with them, or in other words, indeed, relating.

xdude wrote:TL;DR version - #1 is often good enough. All it takes a bit of #2, expression of I get what you feel, but no action needed.

Things are changing but American culture is still a dog eat dog individualistic culture. The idea that all you need to do is say the appropriate thing at the appropriate time - to maintain the social fabric - is very much floating in the air. This is part of the American collective unconscious if you will, but does not constitute a proper definition of empathy: it does not cover how beautifully multifaceted empathy can be.

xdude wrote:Some people are incapable of cognitive empathy. It's a mental blindness. Happens, but it's hopefully uncommon.

I find that some people struggle with detecting cognitive motives, while some will struggle with detecting emotional motives, while some will find no desire in them to carry any empathetic action whatsoever regardless of what they detect. Those are three different types of blindspots. The two former types are likely to fall in the "mean well" category while the latter in the unempathetic category.

Cassandre wrote:Things are changing but American culture is still a dog eat dog individualistic culture. The idea that all you need to do is say the appropriate thing at the appropriate time - to maintain the social fabric - is very much floating in the air. This is part of the American collective unconscious if you will, but does not constitute a proper definition of empathy: it does not cover how beautifully multifaceted empathy can be.

For whatever it's worth, I entirely agree with this. It's a sad thing that our USA collective has turned into a me for me thinking. I also agree, empathy is a something special, that ability to relate to another, and they to you, is the best part of life.

The USA I live in has mostly lost that. Everyone has to be a bad ass, emotionless, a super hero, to be valued. Sucks!

Kudos, because you are right. Empathy actually is something that makes life valuable.

p.s. I wanted to add...

If my above two posts seem inconsistent, unfortunately I've also become increasingly jaded. Empathy seems to be in short supply in my culture. It's great when it happens, but I expect it less and less. On the flip side I appreciate it more when it does happen. It's probably all in my head, but it seems like others are increasingly trying to be an empowered self-absorbed bad-ass like a one-dimensional movie character. Empathy is perceived as a weakness vs a strength.

Related random thought, for those who are okay with some dark and very twisted humor, and if you have Amazon Prime, the show "The Boys" exemplifies that thought I wonder how many would see that show and want to be one of the 'super' heroes

xdude wrote:If my above two posts seem inconsistent

I know no better way, to get closer to the truth, than to put two contradictory intuitions out there, and figure out the one that is more sustainable.

xdude wrote:It's probably all in my head, but it seems like others are increasingly trying to be an empowered self-absorbed bad-ass like a one-dimensional movie character. Empathy is perceived as a weakness vs a strength.

It's not in your head, it's not nice out there - especially for people with a difficult childhood. In order to adapt, I try to focus more on myself, but I long for a more supportive social fabric.

xdude wrote:Related random thought, for those who are okay with some dark and very twisted humor, and if you have Amazon Prime, the show "The Boys" exemplifies that thought I wonder how many would see that show and want to be one of the 'super' heroes

I watched the last episode yesterday, and am pretty excited about that show as well. Definitely takes a dig at some of what is wrong with American culture by turning archetypes inside out. It's not just the US though that get smitten by "sh!tty people in extraordinary positions of power and wealth", it's universal.

The antisocial justice warrior in me prefers the idea of ordinary flawed people fighting back.

Do you find superheroes fascinating on some level?