Shrooms

Well the ego or the self as a psychological structure is what makes one able to connect to reality and understand things, putting them into the right boxes and contexts; it might be malformed in a lot of places - and it is for all people - but its also the tool by which one can cause or attempt informed change in oneself and the world around one. Any attempt to disintegrate the ego per definition leads to schizophrenic (split or splintered mind) illness and that is also one of the possible dangers in both schizoid and narcissistic disorders, that a stability that is present in the disorder can be interrupted and give way to psychosis proper - a state which will be utterly useless in activating any positive change and not easier to treat than a personality disorder.
On the topic of drug induced "insights" I find it a bit funny that some people tend to think they will have insights while under the influence of hallucinogenic substances. After all the hallucinations, if at all, will give rise to encrypted, symbolized complexes not different from the dream world and will be much harder to understand than the everyday experience - the latter of which those people usually are already incapable of deciphering. So in other words you would again need someone to assist you with deciphering, which paradoxically would lead you f.e. again into a psychoanalysts office.
On an emotional level I can understand to a degree though the wish to meet some wise, maybe transcendent entity who will finally impart on oneself the knowledge one has never gotten or maybe give one the love one has never gotten or whatnot. But expecting this from a lifeless substance I find somewhere between naive and delusional.

SelfSerf wrote:Yeah, basically I should've defined a 'good experience' as a positively transforming one to your personality, amplifying your sense of sociableness and whatnot.

Alrighty. However, even this definition doesn't completely satisfy me. It's impossible to know, if a horrible trip might be positively transforming in the future. Also, NPD-folks are negative personalities by default, which makes "positively transforming one's personality" quite impossible. Shrooms kinda "peel off" the layers of lies, which probably makes a pwNPD even more real in the sense, that negativity increases. However, I would say this is indeed positive transformation, since it's towards more honest way of being. Enough of these technicalities, as these might create confusion.

Some beneficial/harmful effects (I'll let you be the judge) that I've had:
- Started believing in God
- Became a health freak
- Even more parasitic lifestyle
- Increased malignancy towards others (antisociality included)
- Gaining insight (into my condition) that comes and goes
- Understood the importance of own experiences VS what society tells us

SelfSerf, since either you and/or your friend must be into David Icke, I'd like to elaborate more on that malignancy part from that perspective. I can very much identify your friend's description of the "reptile skin" part. My behaviour and goals nowadays are very much in line with the ones that "archonic forces" have.

One of the most terrifying mushroom revelations with high dose actually included me almost understanding how my mind works. When I was getting close to the truth, all the sudden the "Devil Driver" (which I call the malignant ego/entity/reptile/demon/whatever that has possessed me) simply wiped my memory clean. After the memory wipe (which consisted of only a few previous seconds) I was flabbergasted, since I remembered that I was getting close. I also kept wondering, why I would suddenly forget something so important, which I was literally thinking about with all my brain power. Similar memory wipes have occurred when sober, even though they are rare. They always have something to do with getting too close to the truth, while explaining to a significant person how my mind works.
So strong seems to be the pwNPD's defence mechanism (or "entity", because that's what it feels like to me), that it simply won't allow any entrance to those well-hidden truths.

And obv I am asking on here because I am interested as it pertains to NPD, so have you been actually diagnosed as well or have went through a self-realization that you have it?

Got it. I haven't been diagnosed, because I'm just now starting therapy. However, I believe the diagnosis won't be given to me, since they don't generally diagnose people with it in my country. I realized that I had covert NPD a couple of years ago. The mushrooms alone didn't show it to me, but also a lot of internet searching. However, the shrooms gave me the mental capacity to understand and accept this truth. Despite all of my so called negative consequences of shrooms, I'm still glad that I decided to try them, and continue using. I simply know myself so much better nowadays, and have more control in my life. I agree that mushies (and other psychedelics, too) are a powerful healing tool that deserves respect. Sure, pwNPD's who choose that path need to be incredibly brave or mad, but to each his own.

Akuma wrote:Well the ego or the self as a psychological structure is what makes one able to connect to reality and understand things, putting them into the right boxes and contexts; it might be malformed in a lot of places - and it is for all people - but its also the tool by which one can cause or attempt informed change in oneself and the world around one. Any attempt to disintegrate the ego per definition leads to schizophrenic (split or splintered mind) illness and that is also one of the possible dangers in both schizoid and narcissistic disorders, that a stability that is present in the disorder can be interrupted and give way to psychosis proper - a state which will be utterly useless in activating any positive change and not easier to treat than a personality disorder.
On the topic of drug induced "insights" I find it a bit funny that some people tend to think they will have insights while under the influence of hallucinogenic substances. After all the hallucinations, if at all, will give rise to encrypted, symbolized complexes not different from the dream world and will be much harder to understand than the everyday experience - the latter of which those people usually are already incapable of deciphering. So in other words you would again need someone to assist you with deciphering, which paradoxically would lead you f.e. again into a psychoanalysts office.
On an emotional level I can understand to a degree though the wish to meet some wise, maybe transcendent entity who will finally impart on oneself the knowledge one has never gotten or maybe give one the love one has never gotten or whatnot. But expecting this from a lifeless substance I find somewhere between naive and delusional.

cubem0n wrote:Alrighty. However, even this definition doesn't completely satisfy me. It's impossible to know, if a horrible trip might be positively transforming in the future. Also, NPD-folks are negative personalities by default, which makes "positively transforming one's personality" quite impossible. Shrooms kinda "peel off" the layers of lies, which probably makes a pwNPD even more real in the sense, that negativity increases. However, I would say this is indeed positive transformation, since it's towards more honest way of being. Enough of these technicalities, as these might create confusion.

Some beneficial/harmful effects (I'll let you be the judge) that I've had:
- Started believing in God
- Became a health freak
- Even more parasitic lifestyle
- Increased malignancy towards others (antisociality included)
- Gaining insight (into my condition) that comes and goes
- Understood the importance of own experiences VS what society tells us

SelfSerf, since either you and/or your friend must be into David Icke, I'd like to elaborate more on that malignancy part from that perspective. I can very much identify your friend's description of the "reptile skin" part. My behaviour and goals nowadays are very much in line with the ones that "archonic forces" have.

One of the most terrifying mushroom revelations with high dose actually included me almost understanding how my mind works. When I was getting close to the truth, all the sudden the "Devil Driver" (which I call the malignant ego/entity/reptile/demon/whatever that has possessed me) simply wiped my memory clean. After the memory wipe (which consisted of only a few previous seconds) I was flabbergasted, since I remembered that I was getting close. I also kept wondering, why I would suddenly forget something so important, which I was literally thinking about with all my brain power. Similar memory wipes have occurred when sober, even though they are rare. They always have something to do with getting too close to the truth, while explaining to a significant person how my mind works.
So strong seems to be the pwNPD's defence mechanism (or "entity", because that's what it feels like to me), that it simply won't allow any entrance to those well-hidden truths.

And obv I am asking on here because I am interested as it pertains to NPD, so have you been actually diagnosed as well or have went through a self-realization that you have it?

Got it. I haven't been diagnosed, because I'm just now starting therapy. However, I believe the diagnosis won't be given to me, since they don't generally diagnose people with it in my country. I realized that I had covert NPD a couple of years ago. The mushrooms alone didn't show it to me, but also a lot of internet searching. However, the shrooms gave me the mental capacity to understand and accept this truth. Despite all of my so called negative consequences of shrooms, I'm still glad that I decided to try them, and continue using. I simply know myself so much better nowadays, and have more control in my life. I agree that mushies (and other psychedelics, too) are a powerful healing tool that deserves respect. Sure, pwNPD's who choose that path need to be incredibly brave or mad, but to each his own.

Great! Thanks a lot for taking the time to be so thorough. Super elaborative responses.

As for the schizoid psychosis split, I just recently read somewhere (might've been edgelord Vakin's writings) [Sorry, his writings are good but it might just be that they are TOO good, like crossing over into literature territory and with its blatant honesty their influence on my fragile mind being more a negative influence than a positive self-reflective one] that since anyone with NPD already lives in a fantasy world of their own making, they are pretty much delusionally living in their fantasy-world non-stop anyway so there's really only one step of separation between that from true psychosis.

I've personally experienced psychosis as a teen when I had my first real rejection by a girl who was in a relationship but was leading me on nonetheless and what it was it felt like death pretty much. It was like my mind was resisting reality (that she would not want me) and I remember for months going to school I was fighting the idea that she wasn't looking to have a relationship with me yet being utterly convinced that we were destined to be together. The sensation was nonsensical and lasted for a while and I was almost completely rejecting the true state of things. Beats me how I somehow took it as a normal state of mind and didn't look for psychological help right there and then.

As for what you call 'devil-driver', I've felt this once after attending a self-esteem enforcing hypnosis session once. After going to sleep that night and plugging in my headphones with some solfeggio "magic frequencies", I woke up to a crazy dream where I saw my mother (died of cancer when I was 9) return, as if she had actually been alive this whole time but just hiding somewhere. In the dream it elicited me to burst into tears with a sense of a mixture of joyous relief and disbelief but when I woke up, I actually discerned an actual schizoid split between what I think was my true self and its feelings, as the so-called driver took hold again and began putting down what I perceived to be my inner child for being pathetic, asking in a derisive manner something like "Oh, you're feeling pained? Didn't you know by now that's what it feels like?" Strangest experience I've ever had, cementing the notion that the disorder can be put down to ordinary survival consciousness all just being a false front and it's almost like having been hijacked by some primal force that is only concerned with its own survival.

SelfSerf, very interesting experiences you have had, even though they sound absolutely horrifying to be experienced.

I've personally experienced psychosis as a teen when I had my first real rejection by a girl who was in a relationship but was leading me on nonetheless and what it was it felt like death pretty much. It was like my mind was resisting reality (that she would not want me) and I remember for months going to school I was fighting the idea that she wasn't looking to have a relationship with me yet being utterly convinced that we were destined to be together. The sensation was nonsensical and lasted for a while and I was almost completely rejecting the true state of things. Beats me how I somehow took it as a normal state of mind and didn't look for psychological help right there and then.

I had a similar kind of rejection by a girl last year. However, I guess I'm so old that my mind is too stiff to actually believe, that I was truly rejected. I'm still making all sorts of projections about it, how she's the one to blame, and I just keep hating her. I guess we, the pwNPDs are very sensitive in our teenage years, which explains the reaction you described to being rejected.

As for what you call 'devil-driver', I've felt this once after attending a self-esteem enforcing hypnosis session once. After going to sleep that night and plugging in my headphones with some solfeggio "magic frequencies", I woke up to a crazy dream where I saw my mother (died of cancer when I was 9) return, as if she had actually been alive this whole time but just hiding somewhere. In the dream it elicited me to burst into tears with a sense of a mixture of joyous relief and disbelief but when I woke up, I actually discerned an actual schizoid split between what I think was my true self and its feelings, as the so-called driver took hold again and began putting down what I perceived to be my inner child for being pathetic, asking in a derisive manner something like "Oh, you're feeling pained? Didn't you know by now that's what it feels like?" Strangest experience I've ever had, cementing the notion that the disorder can be put down to ordinary survival consciousness all just being a false front and it's almost like having been hijacked by some primal force that is only concerned with its own survival.

It seems you've gotten further with the "driver" than I have. However, I have had similar sense about it all, as you have explained here. This entity feels very malevolent indeed, and I'm not sure if I have the courage to face it head-on. It would require even bigger doses of psychedelics (or something else perhaps?), and already the trips have an ominous feeling to them...

I guess this all boils down to one question: how important is the truth (about my past trauma) to me? Without this knowledge it kind of feels like my life is going nowhere meaningful.

cubem0n wrote:SelfSerf, very interesting experiences you have had, even though they sound absolutely horrifying to be experienced.

Yeah, it was one of the worst realizations that I don´t really spend much time thinking of anymore. It was just pure helplessness and like a hijacking of consciousness. I literally experienced my body as a cage that the inner child only occupied like a small spheral part in my chest of and what you refer to as the driver just sadistically taunting the child for it´s immature emotions. The hypnosis I went to was like one of the last straws I took in trying to gain back my lost humanity, at a point when I was desperately looking for anything and everything to ´fix me´.

That is when I also tried holotropic breathwork (there´s some guiding videos on YT that reference to it as DMT breathing) and experienced the locked-in feeling and there was a definite reptilian aspect to how my body locked up while trying to hold back emotions. I actually felt immense light around me an felt as if being cradled by angels when the breathing guide laid a blanket on me. I´m thinking I probably felt safe in that environment because she was a mother figure that I´ve missed my whole life. Just had an intense release, a flood of emotions and cried for what was like a quarter of an hour. Now every subsequent session I went for (that included other people), I could not release anything.

I still felt another layer of awareness (ego?) hovering over this emotional release though so the NPD self was still in control. Probably because you know deeply that in order to survive in life you need to have that protective layer, even if it is severly dysfunctional, it is your only tool and it´s locked in as a mechanism, it never lets off.

So as far as facing the trauma, I´m not entirely sure that it is possible through shrooms either. It´s what neurotypicals referring to the healing powers of psilocybin keep saying but if it is indeed true that a pwNPD has been taken over by a malevolent force, there´s really no way of foregoing it without the help of an experienced shaman/spiritual teacher. In my first hand experience, since the ´true self´ is underdeveloped, it also seems to be too weak to confront this extra force since that force is absolutely reluctant to relinquish its control.

I´m quite intrigued by the Ibogaine connection but I no longer think jumping head first into psychedelics is the best option. Rather something that might elicit a further confused state. There´s forum posts out there referencing a pwNPD´s iboga treatment that left them in a very delirious and divorced from reality state. As NPD seems to carry a strong connection to derealization and disassociation, it´s not actually an alluring idea.

When administering ayahuasca, I kind of have the hunch that there was something I might have picked up from the DMT realm. When the visuals from the brew finally started for me, it was already after the first night´s ceremony had stopped and I was upstairs alone in bed, disappointed that I´d had no realizations, nor anything really. Then in front of my eyes these toy-like substances started being fumbled around and I became nauseous and feverish. Felt like seeking help but everyone was already asleep so I just fumbled around in the hallway, kind of in a strange state of mind, like something had taken over me. Or maybe it was just an escalation of my bad mental state, like another insult to the inner child that had already endured so much and was now once again disappointed to receive no guidance.

I now question how the ayahuasqueros experienced my presence at the ceremony. Like I am partly convinced that they can sense a person´s spiritual state in a visual way when they´re under the influence of the medicine. I did not feel judged in any way though, which was very new to me, because throughout my life I´ve always connected christianity to that along with shame. In that sense it wasaffirming to me since they were from the christian denomination camp of ceremonies and I felt blessed by the whole experience but I could not own up to any of the darkness kept inside me and any purging was not done on my part but taken on by the ayahuasqueros. The violent sounds of puke sounded unpleasent but I felt like I carried no responsibility nor connection to them.

All this information about having layers of consciousness makes me find all the info about the Jezebel spirit sort of confirming. Wonder how an excorcism of a Narcissist would be like.

SelfSerf wrote:When administering ayahuasca, I kind of have the hunch that there was something I might have picked up from the DMT realm. When the visuals from the brew finally started for me, it was already after the first night´s ceremony had stopped and I was upstairs alone in bed, disappointed that I´d had no realizations, nor anything really. Then in front of my eyes these toy-like substances started being fumbled around and I became nauseous and feverish. Felt like seeking help but everyone was already asleep so I just fumbled around in the hallway, kind of in a strange state of mind, like something had taken over me

.

Different people say different things about how to do it and what to expect. Some say not to invite narcissists to ceremonies, they always fight the medicine. That your soul is a cosmic void that even that dmt cant fill (no true self). Now others say that it does work, but you have to have courage and face your core wound, experiance all the repressed feelings and heal that way. Vomitting is one of the unfortunate side effects. Also if you were able to walk, the does is far too low. What the entities asked me was to break threw into hyperspace, enough you totally forget all about this life and yourself. But It had effects for me also in small doses.

SelfSerf wrote:I now question how the ayahuasqueros experienced my presence at the ceremony. Like I am partly convinced that they can sense a person´s spiritual state in a visual way when they´re under the influence of the medicine. I did not feel judged in any way though, which was very new to me

A lot of people (including Terence Mckenna) say that its a collective, telepathic, shamanic experience. That everyone participating in the ceremony has the same hallucination, guided by the shamans singing.

AcidProphet wrote:A lot of people (including Terence Mckenna) say that its a collective, telepathic, shamanic experience. That everyone participating in the ceremony has the same hallucination, guided by the shamans singing.

Yes, indeed. That is what I experienced on the third night. The first two I spent crying uncontrollably, as the icarus they sang were overwhelmingly beautiful and had some ethereal quality to them. They touched straight but I nonetheless felt ungraceful and undeserving the very same. (i.e. the self-concept of myself as inherently bad). When I finally accepted on the third night that I would´t have any amazing revelation and laid down to just breathe I finally managed to ´join´ the others and had the visions of what others in the were creating by their mere singing.

Retrospectively I am very surprised that actually happened as I totally understand the saying about how narcissists ´bog down the circle´. It must have been how others probably sensed me in the room because I was probably severley shut off from the communal aspect of the ceremony, unbeknownst to myself. I was trying forcefully to pry into my own issues and how I could become better, but it was all cerebral, not felt. Just going over in my head, thinking of my family and the people I´d hurt.

It did little to change my nature though. I think if anything it solidified my false sense of self in a way as when I returned to everyday life, I was convinced to have had some magical intervention, which played well to my faultless sense of self, whereas in reality it was another delusion that I had to tell myself in order to cope. In reality, my lack of communal feelings were still there and remained unchanged. I felt disappointed that I had not had some serious intervention from the plant medicine. I kind of expected to be punished, like violent eye-opening stuff that would ´put me in my place´ so to speak but as I was to learn, Ayahuasca is nothing like that.

They also say that one should not immediately return to their jobs, i.e. to environments that are stressfull or negative emotionally. That there´s a time of 10 or so days to reach equilibrium again and for any positive changes to cement, which I sadly did not take and went straight back to my stressfull job but I doubt that had a huge effect.

It very well might´ve been that the concoction was not strong enough, which I took the time to shift blame towards many times throughout the ceremony. But as you wrote in the other thread, without whole object relations, it is near enough impossible for the narcissist to have a sense of responsibility, and sometimes even a meaningful understanding of cause and effect. And that might be part of the reason why I did not experience any strong insight into my own actions of things done in the past. That´s where the void comes in. It´s like being pre-occupied with the self in the here and now, uncapable of relating your current experience to actions in the past, good or bad.

SelfSerf wrote:I was trying forcefully to pry into my own issues and how I could become better, but it was all cerebral, not felt.

.

Yes and I am telling you I have the emotional correlate to my thoughts now. That it IS POSSIBLE.

SelfSerf wrote:It very well might´ve been that the concoction was not strong enough, which I took the time to shift blame towards many times throughout the ceremony.

Thats kindof a dick move. Totally bogging down the circle xD. Idk though. My psychonaut friend just went to an aya ceremony, lets see how they dose him. But I expect if you expect the REAL experience, the one McKenna talks about, you have to dose yourself.

SelfSerf wrote: But as you wrote in the other thread, without whole object relations, it is near enough impossible for the narcissist to have a sense of responsibility, and sometimes even a meaningful understanding of cause and effect. And that might be part of the reason why I did not experience any strong insight into my own actions of things done in the past. That´s where the void comes in. It´s like being pre-occupied with the self in the here and now, uncapable of relating your current experience to actions in the past, good or bad.

Yes. I understand compeletely. They say personality disorders do not qualify as insanity, but I would argue the contrary in the case of NPD. Nothing made sence in my life, was all random, just kept making all the same mistakes over and over. Same mistake twice with the same girl. Not caring when she confessed her love AGAIN. Even though I regreted rejecting her when I fell in love. When she gave me the signs AGAIN, assbumping me AGAIN, wants to meet me AGAIN. With no self reflection, nothing was wrong with that. Trapped in a nightmare, with no possibility to comprehend - that YOU are the one doing it.

Edit. But its WORSE than that. Worse than doesnt make sence. You continualy rewrite your past experiences to fit your current supply needs. Only that matters. All about supply. Doesnt matter if you look stupid, hurt others or put yourself in danger.

It did me well.

It was Argyreia Nervosa (Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose) which gave me all the NPD insights though (my negative pattern of behavior since childhood / early adolescence).

Psychedelics are a great way of self-discovery.

Since then I began psychoanalysis and decided to definitely drop the medications, which never helped me.

Bui wrote:It did me well.

It was Argyreia Nervosa (Hawaiian Baby Wood Rose) which gave me all the NPD insights though (my negative pattern of behavior since childhood / early adolescence).

Psychedelics are a great way of self-discovery.

Since then I began psychoanalysis and decided to definitely drop the medications, which never helped me.

That´s very intriguing. Would you care to elaborate on this? A short search only made it clear to me that this is not considered an illicit substance. Also, am assuming you no longer take those listed in your signature, then?

There´s a good discussion in a thread on shroomery actually. It also makes me lean towards the solid advice of - steer clear if you have a latent mental illness
shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/348464/fpart/1/vc/1

Am not sure whether microdosing might have another effect though, and would still like to try more of that that in the near future. Am sure low doses are not enough to generate too many new neurons but aye, might be a small benefit. So far I´ve experienced myself as slightly more accepting towards myself (probably due to the high, serotonergic response) and felt at least some minimal form of empathy, it definitely lowers agression. My other-related constructs were left untouched but I had enough cognitive ability to consider their validity.