Closet/covert narcissism

shanzeek wrote:

dazn153 wrote:

This too. What made me come here and seek answers was my previous relationship, before that it never occurred to me something might be off with me. Do you think your current partner is in any way disordered themselves?

Yes. Like attracts like. Birds of a feather flock together. It is 100% true. Just average your 5 closest friends and that is you. There is a reason why successful people only hang with successful people.

Looking at one's friends when analyzing oneself is pretty good advice. Most of my friends are pretty emotional, stable and empathetic, probably nons. Most of my boyfriends were the opposite of that, it rarely happens that I fall for someone who might be described as non. I also spent most of my last year engaging with various disordered people, experimenting with drugs and "living on the edge". All this perfectly sums up my personality and its both healthy and disordered parts, different parts of me seem to engage with these groups but none of those parts are fake.

How would you describe your 5 closest friends?

Wow - we are the same person. My friends are also empathetic/stable/successful/nons. My partners are typically NPD or have had some childhood trauma (could be BPD). None diagnosed (at least from what I know). They had very tiger parents, which makes sense for their personality.

I also engaged with tons of disordered people then and tried drugs, partying, etc. last year. Way too much partying in fact. Now I've gone sober after 11 years (at most a beer a month).

I'd say my closest friends are very kind people. Not NPD even a bit. Down to earth, driven, kind to others, focused, and all entrepreneurial (which I believe 49% of entrepreneurs have had some mental illness or still do). I don't talk to them all that often. I actually talk to the opposite gender friends a lot more... I'm like one of them. I wonder if that is also a sign?

Quoth wrote:As a slightly odd thought Shanz, how much does your introverted/extroverted personas relate to my twin Quoths thing? I mean for me they're almost like two (potentially more) distinct personality states, when I was young I actually invisaged my personality as two people, a boy who was basically me, sensitive and introvert and another character I thought of as "the black man" (not in an African American sense) a behemoth of rage, ambition, narcissism and raw willpower. It was almost like I had created my own internal attack dog which I could use whenever I was feeling naff.

Twin Quoths thing.
To be perfectly honest, it's not something that was completely foreign to me when I first heard you mentioning it. But it's not too similar to what I experience, either. I remember on my first year often writing about what would happen if all these groups that know a different me, would find themselves in same place, what persona would come out then. However, I don't think this "personas" are in that much contrast like yours seem to be, if they were all different people, I think they'd still get along just fine.
I don't think I'm able to pull them out at will, it always depends on who's on the other side. I'm also unable to make a clear distinction between them like you can, or relate to one more than to other. I also don't think it's solely an introversion-extroversion divison.
With my mentors I'm always at my best, very confident, strong-willed and opinionated, also warm and unafraid to show weakness as it's never judged, mixture of rational and intuitive/emotional persona (I'd like to think this is the real me, one that comes out when in a safe surrounding, as mentors could be described as improved healthy versions of my own father, traits he did possess but also ones he always lacked),
with my father similarly strong only more rational persona, but no displays of weakness of any kind, I could never imagine crying in front of my father or admitting fear
with professors I don't consider mentors or people I'm indifferent to, I'm on this introverted auto-pilot (I'd say this is some kind of defence mechanism to protect me)
with my ex I kept switching between this mentors-related confidence and complete submisiveness (one EE described in her thread, as if I'd go back to being a 5-year-old), being cornered would suddenly trigger this confident narcissistic persona, so he'd often get very confused. So would I to be honest.
with nons I'm the self-appointed entertainer , usually warm and empathetic
with disordered people I'm a bit deviant I suppose, it also depends what kind of disorder - with sociopaths I become alert and cautious, with narcissists playful, with coverts anxious
Unlike you, I'm unable to make clear distinctions here between what's "me" and what is created to protect me, I'm not sure which state is my natural state, but the role I take on when in relation to mentors (or those that take on a similar role in my life) is my favorite one as it brings out the best in me and it feels a bit otherwordly, where all social roles become secondary and there are no boundaries nor judgement, and ideas are discussed.
I'm sure this whole thing sounds unclear, just a reflection of my equally shattered mind, I'm not even sure this is what you meant.

Obviously these days I realise the "boy" is the stronger of the two..

How so?
Btw what triggers you to become one or the other?

The other question is how bad are you for telling tales, making up an anecdote or something? In a social setting, purely to be likable?

No, I'm sensitive to lies, even as harmless as these. Does this mean you do it?
I did notice that, with nons, I usually take it up on me to be the "entertainer", and with disordered people, they're usually the ones who take away this focus and it comes as a relief.. It's probably why I felt so much at peace with my ex or my bpd friend, I prefer their company for any other.

These two posts..

shanzeek wrote:So there is still supply seeking in terms of covert narcissism?
I have this funny intuitive feeling Angelica here is an ASPD troll emerged from all the are empaths real discussions around here.

dazn153 wrote:Likely. I don't think folks with NPD would ask those questions.

Hell yes there is supply seeking with covert narcissism. Facebook chat all day for supply!

..are now making me think I might not fit the description after all. I thought the typical supply or admiration seeking is replaced by "basking in the glow of idealized object", but it seems one doesn't exclude the other.

@question to all coverts - do you at all times seek supply? What kind of supply?

shanzeek wrote:How so?
Btw what triggers you to become one or the other?

my attack dog is more bark than bite, it's not unreal in the sense of an act when I'm it, it is what I am. Ultimately though it is still part of me, I'm not about to attack anyone unless I can help it, not in any way that matters. The little one though is a different matter, actually better at dealing with people due to perception. However the moral stance tends to mean that if people cross that line, I'll ghost them and we'll be done.

stress is the trigger, it's about vigilance and emotional dissociation. Also due to the sensory issues, stress includes over stimulation. There are a couple of other lesser spotted variants, under extreme stress my emotions completely flatline so there is no anger or anything else. At the present I'm sick which obviously has connotations with trauma for me so the more aggressive form is dominant.

No, I'm sensitive to lies, even as harmless as these. Does this mean you do it?
I did notice that, with nons, I usually take it up on me to be the "entertainer", and with disordered people, they're usually the ones who take away this focus and it comes as a relief.. It's probably why I felt so much at peace with my ex or my bpd friend, I prefer their company for any other.

everybody lies to some degree, it's really just a case of how honest they are with themselves about lying.

In my case, yes and no. I have some dissociative identity issues so I might be inclined to spend hours at a time imagining my life as a lorry driver for instance. I tell tales to myself more than anyone else.

Obviously if someone in the real world asks me about my time at school I'll lie. At worst if I'm too dissociated to connect or behave as I should with someone or in a stressful situation when I have too I have a habit of shifting to a kind of proto alter which acts as a barrier allowing for emotional expression, obviously only something that happens in the real world. It's a bit complicated but they are all me, not fake just fragmentary. In PDs the closest analogy is the fluid identity of the borderlines.

None of which is to say I won't be a manipulative sh*tbag, but if I'm lying like that to you there is a pretty good chance you tried it on with me first.

I don't lie about anything which will have an impact on another person at all, just those parts of myself which I can't live with at that moment. Primarily due to compulsive traits I tend more towards brutal honesty than anything else.

Quoth wrote:my attack dog is more bark than bite, it's not unreal in the sense of an act when I'm it, it is what I am. Ultimately though it is still part of me, I'm not about to attack anyone unless I can help it, not in any way that matters. The little one though is a different matter, actually better at dealing with people due to perception. However the moral stance tends to mean that if people cross that line, I'll ghost them and we'll be done.

Well, in my opinion, talking to you around here always feels like talking to "the little one", even if the boy occasionally mimicks the formal tone and moodiness of the entj one. Or to rephrase, it never feels like the one is disconnected from the other.

everybody lies to some degree, it's really just a case of how honest they are with themselves about lying.

You're right here. "I never lie" would be a lie. I avoided telling the truth to my parents about certain (mostly university related) things, sometimes to spare them, other times for selfish reasons. What I wanted to say is probably what you mentioned below - avoiding to lie about things that would have any impact at all on a person. I just keep in mind how the smallest even most insignificant lie might destroy the trust I feel towards someone, so I try to avoid doing it to another person whenever possible.

None of which is to say I won't be a manipulative sh*tbag, but if I'm lying like that to you there is a pretty good chance you tried it on with me first.

Hammurabi, fair enough. Whenever I feel I've been crossed in any way, half a set of my traits disappears and another half appears in regard to a person, so I do get this.

Obviously if someone in the real world asks me about my time at school I'll lie. At worst if I'm too dissociated to connect or behave as I should with someone or in a stressful situation when I have too I have a habit of shifting to a kind of proto alter which acts as a barrier allowing for emotional expression, obviously only something that happens in the real world. It's a bit complicated but they are all me, not fake just fragmentary.

How do you feel about having all these altering personas though? Does it bother you or do you accept it for what it is or something third?

I have some dissociative identity issues so I might be inclined to spend hours at a time imagining my life as a lorry driver for instance. I tell tales to myself more than anyone else.

I'm a bit confused whether this is to be taken literally or as some kind of a metaphor. Can you explain it a bit further?

julllia wrote:Do you ever take tests with various pds,out of curiosity,where do you score high?

This made me take the personality inventory for DSM-V Jasmer posted some time ago (narcissistic-personality/topic180798.html), here are the results:




and the suggested personality disorder isssss:


I now understand how Joseph K. felt.

@question to all coverts - do you at all times seek supply? What kind of supply?

Thats not going to get you very far I think, as everyone looks for supply. Its all the stuff we do and get to feel better about ourselves. I will go to the bakery soon for example and get supply in the form of buns and a laugenstange.
Apart from the broad meaning your intuition is correct though, it would be very weird for someone who has to suppress / repress his grandiose parts to look for fuel for them - irrespective of if that concept is accurate or not.

Akuma wrote:

@question to all coverts - do you at all times seek supply? What kind of supply?

Thats not going to get you very far I think, as everyone looks for supply. Its all the stuff we do and get to feel better about ourselves. I will go to the bakery soon for example and get supply in the form of buns and a laugenstange.
Apart from the broad meaning your intuition is correct though, it would be very weird for someone who has to suppress / repress his grandiose parts to look for fuel for them - irrespective of if that concept is accurate or not.

Actual buns and laugenstange? Or "buns"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_roll

I've noticed Akuma that you don't talk much about your private life, but you did mention the bakery on more than 3 occasions. Why is that? Does the going to the bakery in the morning bear more relevance to you than one might guess? Is it some childhood memory (it actually reminds me of my childhood..) or am I again over-analyzing here?

Also, based on the results on personality inventory Jasmer posted, I see that your CNPD wasn't picked up by a test (Kimera's was, though, Jasmer's too), can this test be used at all to detect CNPD or are BPD traits that potentially mimick CNPD used to diagnose CNPD too?