Do empaths have empathy when it counts?

Aals wrote:

assuming everyone has an innate desire to feel superior to others and thus concluding all empaths are narcissists is pretty funny, if you actually think about it?

Yes. You are right. If you read my post again, I did not say that all of them have NPD. All I was saying is that they have this narcissistic delusion that they can change people with their love. I have changed my mind with one thing. Not all the empaths are codependent. Some are. There was actually very interesting point in the book "Rethinking Narcissism". According to authors the majority of people think they are "little better" than average person. It was unexpected(for me, at least) that this is a good thing because by thinking like that you elevate the others up and make them feel special and better about themselves too. So in moderation, it is a good thing. It will be a problem if it makes you feel extremely entitled. I base my opinion about codependents on my on my experiences with Adulth Children of Alcoholics 12-step groups. Many of the people in these groups talked about this delusion (they did not call it delusion, more like compulsive habit) in the sessions, and I have seen that in myself too.

Not all the people with strong narcissists tendencies are arrogant. Some are very shy and introverted. Not all the empaths have strong narcissists tendencies. Some of them belong to other side of spectrum, who are actually lacking healthy narcissism. Some of them belong to healthy side. (0=no narcissistic tendencies at all - 10 = full blown sociopathy). According to this book, unhealthy narcissism is an ADDICTION. Codependency is an ADDICTION. And I have first hand experience of the dark side of codependency. There was one woman in the group. She had a husband and kids. She had a crush on me, and altough I found her sexy I did not want to do anything about it because she was married. She acted like I am her possession. She was very jealous. She was blaming me that I do things (like talk to other women of the group) just to hurt her. I made it very clear that there will be nothing between us because she is married and I do not want to get involved in anything like this. I did not send mixed signals. Her excuse for her behavior: "I can not help myself because I am codependent". On other words, complete lack of accountability.

i have empathy, it's just got zero impact on my behavior. i help people because it benefits me. mutual benefit > self gratification because the potential for further reward is vastly higher, but that has nothing to do with empathy. it's nothing but a tool for understanding things beyond myself.

Again, I think having self gratification for doing good is not a bad thing. It CAN be if it makes you feel very entitled, like a saint. This is what codependency can become in its most extreme form. One thing about empathy. It does not mean compassion. It just mean that you can understand what other person is feeling. For instance, sociopaths have a lot of empathy. This makes them very dangerous because they know very well what you are feeling, they just don´t care at all. They use that information for their own good. The way how I see it is that compassion gives you the motivation to make the other person feel better and take responsibility if you hurt somebody (like we all do sometimes because we do not always know what we are doing).

i'm curious, do you believe empaths also need to feel superior to things like animals and bugs etc, or is the sense of inferiority you paint them with strictly limited to the human condition?

I do not really have opinion about this. The woman I was talking about (not the one in the group) was always very displeased when I caressed the street dogs (she did not like animals). On the other hand, I have heard some people with NPD saying that they treat their pets like royalties and that they love animals. So, I do not really know. Maybe. Maybe not.

At this point, I think narcissism occurs in spectrum (just like empathy). Too much of it and also lack of it is very unhealthy for the person and people around him/her. For instance, somebody with too little narcissism can really hurt other people who want to make him/her feel happy by rejecting their loving gestures (gifts, for example).

By the way, I strongly recommend the book "Rethinking Narcissism" for everybody who are interested about self-reflection. For me it gave a completely new perspective to narcissism, empathy and addiction. It offers a lot of hope for people with NPD who have become aware of their struggles.

thankyou, this helps me understand
still unsure what "empaths aren't really empaths" means, but i appreciate your response