The Remorseless

Even then some empathy still exists...
https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup/bac ... A4LVPAVW3Q

Outside psychopathy Empathy is dependent upon the imdividuals state of mind irrespective of the presence of a PD.

To add Because people don't want to be extension of you nor pleasing ,doesn't mean they hate you. I feel is a kind of black and white thinking.either you agree or you are enemy. And is very close minded and self destructive

Is like they are even more insecure than other narcissists in comparison. Because all narcissists have self esteem issues but they do it in such extent that seems funny.
Do you see every narcissistic devalue so easy. And act funny
But if kaloya is a teenager i understand more

"Narcissists are not licking ass on everyone to become friends. That is the histrionic. We do not care about you, what you have to say about me (unless it is positive), and we do not need you in our lives if you have no purpose. It's like a filter."

Put another way, it seems the narcissist DOES care about positive feedback from others and requires that others serve a purpose for him, otherwise if others present negative mirrors, which create narcissistic injury, and/or have no value to a narcissist, then they're nothing to him.

That takes a lot of constant radar screening for perceived hostility or perceived value assessment of others. Seems to be a form of hypervigilance formed in an early childhood environment that was negative and devaluing to begin with.

^

You're confusing hypervigilance and paranoia:

Hypervigilance vs. paranoia

The way people behave when they are experiencing hypervigilance can seem similar to paranoia. However, there are important differences between the two mental states:

Delusion vs. being on guard: In paranoia, people hold specific, untrue beliefs that certain people or things are out to get them. People experiencing hypervigilance do not have any fixed beliefs about a specific thing happening, however. They are not delusional but just on high alert.

Now vs. in the future: In paranoia, people have a delusional belief that someone or something is trying to harm them now, in the present. In hypervigilance, people are on guard in anticipation of something bad happening in the future.

Lack of awareness vs. insight: In paranoia, people will not be aware that they are suffering from an illness and may believe that their delusions are true. In hypervigilance, people often have an awareness that there is no objective reason to be on edge, but find it hard to relax nonetheless.

(https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319289.php)

realityhere wrote:"Narcissists are not licking ass on everyone to become friends. That is the histrionic. We do not care about you, what you have to say about me (unless it is positive), and we do not need you in our lives if you have no purpose. It's like a filter."

Put another way, it seems the narcissist DOES care about positive feedback from others and requires that others serve a purpose for him, otherwise if others present negative mirrors, which create narcissistic injury, and/or have no value to a narcissist, then they're nothing to him.

That takes a lot of constant radar screening for perceived hostility or perceived value assessment of others. Seems to be a form of hypervigilance formed in an early childhood environment that was negative and devaluing to begin with.

Of course a narcissist cares about the positive percieved social feedback in ones enviroment. That is what we "live" off of. But for overt narcissist, most of the negative or scolding feedback, isn't something we care about. To that, I can agree.

There is a lot of percieved hostility and value assesment. This is with most personality disorders, the inability to trust others or degrading them, especially in NPD.

Quoth wrote:

realityhere wrote: I often wonder about this. What is the difference between the two, that is, narcissism the disorder versus narcissism the personal identity?

Spin, mostly.

Taken to extremes it's the distinction between saying "I display grandiosity and entitlement and feel like I am a great person of destiny because I am disordered" and saying "I am grand and entitled because I am a great person of destiny which society happens to view as a psychiatric disorder."

For what it's worth, having read his response I suspect Middie may be inaccurately conflating "caring" with "feeling empathy for" which could be a language barrier issue...

you are right something is off.like a child who has a persona or a troll.
it keeps making me wonder what is the different with someone who has the disorder ,with just an everyday asshole who is difficult and has traits with no charm.or is it about being covert, or i thought borderlines/coverts were easier to act like this. i am in no position to know though.i don't know why on earth i wonder about those things is a waste of time.some things are just more simple without layers

it keeps making me wonder what is the different with someone who has the disorder ,with just an everyday asshole who is difficult and has traits with no charm.or is it about being covert, or i thought borderlines/coverts were easier to act like this. i am in no position to know though.i don't know why on earth i wonder about those things is a waste of time.some things are just more simple without layers

Quite offtopic now, but a big problem is still that narcissism is not a defined term, or more accurately that there are like quite a lot of different definitions. There are studies now that differentiate for example between NPD and NPI narcissists, there is the definitions betwen grandiose and covert (again with their own typology), there is the definition in the context of "narcissistic withdrawal" which means withdrawal to the inside aka dissociation, there is in the sense of narcissistic defenses, which can occur in all sorts of disorders, and the pop psychological narcissist = egoist and the projective screen that borderliners need, where narcissist is all the badness in themselves plus a person that doesnt care about them and abandons them. So basically if you talk about "narcissists" you could just as well talk about "prrrrfffffffff", its quite the same level of meaning .
On top of that there is the conflict between DSM diagnostics and structural diagnostics, where for example BPD or NPD can be a diagnosis, while you can contrarily have a neurotic person with narcissistic defenses vsa borderline person with such. Aaaand then there is the differentials between obsessive characters for example who are often perfectionistic and histrionic characters who are often self-centered (or want to be) which then depending on their levels makes it even harder to figure out what exactly one is dealign with.
I think nowadays though that using words like this s a sort of pretend-mode, as they call it in mentalization-based-treatment. Using these terms is defensive in itself, its like putting on dark glasse, you might look a bit cooler, but you can also see less.

Akuma wrote:but a big problem is still that narcissism is not a defined term, or more accurately that there are like quite a lot of different definitions

This. ^^^

It seems that when a so called narcissistic behavior is called on by the masses of nons (being sarcastic here) the response is either "well, this is how we are" or "it is not scientifically defined yet".
And poof, the issue is deflected.

It seems to me that people that are happy and well adapted and very satisfied with their inner workings would spend no time in a forum for PDs. The fact that we are here indicates to me we have at least questions. So why not address them, tease the issues out, try to figure out what bothers or hinders us. Explaining a behavior with "this is how narcs are" sounds to me just as lame as having someone that is simply frustrated with a failed relationship saying "my ex is a narc".

Midwinter wrote:1. How many of you - besides being so caught up in yourselves - lack remorse and guilt?
2. Is a narcissistic lack of remorse different from that of the antisocial?

The trait is often recognized as an antisocial trait, but I'm sure a narcissist can have it as well. It is not a defining trait, but it should be considered.

I lack it, at least in the things I've done in my life so far.

Discuss.

/M

Though I have not been diagnosed with any personality disorders, I do lack guilt and remorse; for most of my life, I have lacked these in the feelings department. I tend not to feel bad when I do something wrong and instead simply say to myself, "Don't do that again" or, "I don't care enough" and that's it.

I don't believe there is a difference between a lack of remorse from narcissts and antisocials; a lack of remorse is simply a lack of remorse. However, how much we lack it is different from person to person depending on a number of things (unless you're a psychopath, as their frontolimbic network is damaged, so there's a lack of remorse no matter what). But, that's just my opinion.

I do believe that narcissts can have the lack of remorse trait as well; they have the perfect makeup for it considering their behaviors. Nothing is black and white, and that includes who lacks remorse and who doesn't.

I hope that was a good enough answer for you.

I have a little question for you: what do you think about the feelings of guilt and remorse? Do you think people are stupid for having those feelings? Do you think they're good traits? I personally believe that these feelings can hold someone back from actually thinking logically and learning what they have done wrong. If you're just on your knees moping about how guilty you feel, you're never going to learn.