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Nature vs Nurture

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Nature vs Nurture

Postby Midwinter » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:38 pm

Quick question, can't be bothered to look up if there has been a topic like this.

How many of you come from dysfunctional families? How many of you has (or has had) either a father or mother that is/was narcissistic?

If you both had a dysfunctional childhood and a family member that was narcissistic, what do you think mostly contributed to the way you are now? Is it a mixture of both?
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby Kimera » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:55 pm

Midwinter wrote:How many of you come from dysfunctional families? How many of you has (or has had) either a father or mother that is/was narcissistic?

My parents divorced before I was out of diapers. Dad went off and started a new family. Mom is a narcissist -- Dad may be, too. If not, he's just a self-absorbed ass. I raised myself.

Midwinter wrote:If you both had a dysfunctional childhood and a family member that was narcissistic, what do you think mostly contributed to the way you are now? Is it a mixture of both?

I wonder about this, too. I tend to think it's a mixture. How did my parents get to be the way they are? Is there a genetic component to the dysfunction? I'm not sure how to separate.

I learned at an early age that people can't be trusted. My mother was a jealous and vindictive person. If she knew something mattered to me, she'd find a way to ruin it. So I learned how to hide what matters. I hid it really well, even from myself :roll:

She was also manipulative. For the longest time I thought that the phrase "I love you" ended in "but.....". Always strings attached. Even today if someone claims to love me I assume they want something.

The one thing that I can't totally trace back to my upbringing is the feelings of superiority. I can remember feeling special as early as kindergarten. Is it possible I was already eff'ed up by then? I mean, I saw my classmates as drones. And I believed my teacher saw that, too. The classroom rules applied to the drones and not to me, so I didn't have to follow them if I didn't want to. Not sure how I got to be that way.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby xlostintranslationx » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:18 pm

I think it's 'nurture' that makes someone have a personality disorder. Usually from some kind of mistreatment or dysfunctional unhealthy environment from early childhood. I think in terms of which personality disorder one develops might depend partly on character traits you could be born with as well as a reaction to the environment or character traits one develops in early childhood.

I think I have Schizoid PD and (covert) NPD. I didn't know my father and I'm pretty sure my mother had BPD. She was very overly emotional, serious and soppy in this sickly way, intrusive, emotionally demanding etc. I hated it. So I think it makes sense that I could have developed the PD's I think I did partly as a reaction or defence against that. For example SPD and NPD are known for using more cognitive empathy whereas BPD is known for being the opposite and using a lot of affective empathy instead. But mainly it's the fact that Schizoids are usually sensitive to psychological or emotional intrusions and demands. So that seems to make a lot of sense. And I feel kinda like schizoid is actually more my core. I was a very schizoid child. Having said that I do think I was probably randomly born with certain character traits already which may have made me predisposed like just being an introvert for example, not born with a PD though as i think that only develops as a defence to the environment.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby Akuma » Mon May 01, 2017 5:28 am

Midwinter wrote:Quick question, can't be bothered to look up if there has been a topic like this.

How many of you come from dysfunctional families? How many of you has (or has had) either a father or mother that is/was narcissistic?

If you both had a dysfunctional childhood and a family member that was narcissistic, what do you think mostly contributed to the way you are now? Is it a mixture of both?


I was brought up by my grandmother mainly, since my dad had another wife when my mom ###$ with him. My mom was absent mostly, since she worked and my grandfather worked shift-wise, too. My grandmother was more schizodi I think and managed me more than anything, so my time mostly consisted of waiting for someone to be around. My grandfather was more narcissistic, with a bidirectional link between the fundamentalist-christian sect they were in and his self-image as a good christian, which was in contrast to his inability to control his anger sometimes. My mother I'm not sure up to this day what her pathology woul dbe, I assume some depressive-histrionic thing, someone who always wants to be seen and acknowledged but is incapable of creating those situations effectively. She parentified me a lot.

As to causation, nature vs nurture is outdated since decades, im surprised ppl still ask about it. In the context of PD, it s a PD. The personality gets structued in the first years of life by interaction with the caregivers supported by genetic predispositions; in my case hypersensitivity made me react more strongly to incorrect handling for example.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby thought00fraught » Mon May 01, 2017 6:36 am

I think it is a bit of both.

I suspect my old man is a narcissist, but none of my many brothers and sisters are, nor my mother.

I recall being 5-6 and, quite elaborately, playing my parents off against each other (they had split up), in many cases thinking many moves ahead.

I remember we were going to get sent (one kid at a time) to stay with hardcore Christian "family values" relatives, and it was obvious to me the plan was to discover who the "bad" kid was. I remember getting a copy of the Bible to study, so I could relate to them, and can even remember sitting round their table singing and saying grace. They thought I was an angel and my brothers the opposite, mainly due to the many landmines I set while I was there, awaiting their future arrival hehe. This would be the same year I took a copy of the Satanic Bible to school, to disqualify myself from Religious Studies on religious grounds like the Muslim kids did. Clearly I was theologically flexible!

I remember paying the big bully kids to beat up the Chinese kids, then collecting more money from the Chinese kids to get them protection from the bullies they suddenly had.

My siblings don't have stories like these and have grown up, got married, got divorced, done menial jobs and been pretty much normal. So while I think that nurture plays a key role (I don't recall ever being hugged, I don't recall ever feeling loved etc etc) I have to believe that nature also plays a role.

I was "different" for better or worse really early on, and that probably isn't all down to nurture.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby thought00fraught » Mon May 01, 2017 10:14 am

My parents divorced before I was out of diapers. Dad went off and started a new family. Mom is a narcissist -- Dad may be, too. If not, he's just a self-absorbed ass. I raised myself.


Hmmm I wonder if the raising yourself thing is common with narcissists, as I'm only now realising the extent to which I did the same.

Basically, if I could learn it from a book, I did, but if it was a doing/feeling/teamwork thing, I didn't.

Somehow I learned how to think, arrange, manipulate and hustle really young, but as examples I taught myself how to tie my shoelaces at 15, use a knife and fork at 22, cook an egg at 35 and I still can't drive a car!

I didn't used to think my childhood was that weird, but I'm starting to wonder.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby Midwinter » Mon May 01, 2017 11:49 am

thought00fraught wrote:
My parents divorced before I was out of diapers. Dad went off and started a new family. Mom is a narcissist -- Dad may be, too. If not, he's just a self-absorbed ass. I raised myself.


Hmmm I wonder if the raising yourself thing is common with narcissists, as I'm only now realising the extent to which I did the same.


It is a strong factor for narcissists I think, because a lack of admiration or care from the caregivers, is usually a strong factor in growing up by yourself. Neglect is $#%^.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby MeAgain » Tue May 02, 2017 1:50 am

It's always faulty nurturing. Children who don't have normal childhoods will end up on the Spectrum somewhere. The tragic thing is that there are now people (damaged themselves) who are advocating abnormal nurturing.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby xlostintranslationx » Tue May 02, 2017 1:59 am

Midwinter wrote:
thought00fraught wrote:
My parents divorced before I was out of diapers. Dad went off and started a new family. Mom is a narcissist -- Dad may be, too. If not, he's just a self-absorbed ass. I raised myself.


Hmmm I wonder if the raising yourself thing is common with narcissists, as I'm only now realising the extent to which I did the same.


It is a strong factor for narcissists I think, because a lack of admiration or care from the caregivers, is usually a strong factor in growing up by yourself. Neglect is $#%^.



Yeah... I think it's often something like not being treated you're a real person, basically. Like your needs don't matter or like you don't really exist.

Ans yeah I think I did have to raise my myself.
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Re: Nature vs Nurture

Postby thought00fraught » Tue May 02, 2017 6:49 am


Yeah... I think it's often something like not being treated you're a real person, basically. Like your needs don't matter or like you don't really exist.

Ans yeah I think I did have to raise my myself.


Yup, I was very much bought up "boys don't cry" style, if you had an emotion, then don't you dare show it! I guess eventually that becomes normal.
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