narcissism and immortality

rubystar wrote:I have an aspie child, he writes in a much more formal way than you do, kind of like the way Digital writes, but his thoughts aren't nearly as well organized. I don't know If all Aspies write that way, but I read that it's relatively common in AS.

Hmm, never considered that notion. Let me check...

Social Communication & Understanding

- Difficulties understanding gestures, body language, and facial expressions.

- Difficulties making eye contact.

- Repetitive speech.

- Difficulties expressing themselves especially when talking about emotions.

- Anxiety in social situations.

- Lack of awareness on what is socially appropriate and thus have difficulty choosing topics to talk about.

- Lack of motivation to be social because of difficulties in communicating. Therefore they may not have many friends.

- Difficulties in group situations, such as going to the pub with a group of friends.

- Finding small talk and chatting very difficult.

- Problems understanding double meanings. For example, not knowing when people are teasing you.

- Taking what people say very literally.

Emphatic no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no.

Imagination

- An obsession with rigid routines and distress if routines are disrupted.

- Problems with making plans for the future and having difficulties organising their life.

- Problems with sequencing tasks, such that preparing to go out can be difficult.

No, somewhat, and somewhat.

Secondary / Indirect Symptoms

- Obsessive compulsive behaviours, often severe enough to be diagnosed as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

- Obsessive interests in just one topic. For example, they might have one subject about which they are extremely knowledgeable in.

- Phobias: Sometimes people with AS are described as having a social phobia but they may also be affected by other common fears such as claustrophobia and agoraphobia.

- Acute anxiety, which can lead to panic attacks.

- Depression and social isolation (This is especially common among adults).

- Clumsiness, often linked to a condition known as Dyspraxia. This includes difficulties with fine motor co-ordination such as difficulties writing neatly as well as problems with gross motor co-ordination such as ungainly movements, tripping, and falling a lot.

No, no, no, no, and no.

Well that sorts that out. On a side note, I cannot for the life of me think of how someone could construe that condition as a higher form of intelligence (objectively, that is. Subjectively speaking it would be very easy to form such an idea based solely on self-consolation and/or internal-aggrandisement).

rubystar wrote:

Hmm, never considered that notion. Let me check...

It is very common for aspies to speak in a pedantic manner, and it makes sense that a person who speaks in a pedantic manner would have a formal writing style. I actually live with an aspie so I have first hand experience with their behaviors, I have to deal with it everyday, my observations may not be true for all, since they all have differences. Were you were discrediting my observation in your reply?

It's not my impression that he did, but in any case, the often
excessively formal use of language by those with AS is well
documented, and although usually with respect to spoken
language, it seems logical that the same behaviour would
extend to their writing.

On a side note, I cannot for the life of me think of how someone could construe that condition as a higher form of intelligence (objectively, that is. Subjectively speaking it would be very easy to form such an idea based solely on self-consolation and/or internal-aggrandisement).

I agree, my son is disabled to the point where he can't care for himself properly, he obsesses for hours on pointless tasks, is socially rejected by his peers and his academic performance is awful. His intelligence in some areas is high, but he can't use his intelligence it in a productive way that will benefit him.

I agree as well, but keep in mind that most of the literature on AS
applies to rather severe cases of the syndrome. Also note that
the deficiencies primarily apply to social interaction, and that it's
quite possible for aspies to be successful in science and the
academic world. Their obsessive devotion to their special interests
may even give them a competitive advantage in some cases.

By the way, I've been accused of having the condition under
discussion, probably as a result of my schizoid behaviours.

rubystar wrote:It is very common for aspies to speak in a pedantic manner, and it makes sense that a person who speaks in a pedantic manner would have a formal writing style. I actually live with an aspie so I have first hand experience with their behaviors, I have to deal with it everyday, my observations may not be true for all, since they all have differences. Were you were discrediting my observation in your reply?

Certainly not, Ruby. I was just curiously thinking aloud on the notion. I have never really investigated Aspergers, and you indirectly putting forward the premise that I could be instigated me to check it out. It resulted in a definite no. Don't worry, I am not so inane (or arguementative) to assert that all people with formal written manner must/musn't have Aspergers (or put forward that you would).

I think you are getting a little to accustomed to N's and their pedantry. Pre-emptive exasperation now.

I agree, my son is disabled to the point where he can't care for himself properly, he obsesses for hours on pointless tasks, is socially rejected by his peers and his academic performance is awful. His intelligence in some areas is high, but he can't use his intelligence it in a productive way that will benefit him.

Agreed. I have known 1 aspie reasonably well, and all I can say is that whatever he is, he is not a higher form of intelligence. Obsessed, awkward, introverted, ungainly, intrusive, unwanted, focussed, isolated, and perhaps specialised, but certainly not superior. I am not even sure that his intelligence is so high, so much as his areas of specilisation are so focussed and intense. He used to make me angry (back in the full flight of my NPD), just by looking at him. In fact he particularly raised my ire in that he perceived himself to be some kind of competitor with me, and derived much anxiety that I could consistently outmatch him with little to no effort at all. However, in retrospect, his Aspergers syndroe was intense. I remember he would come up to me with some kind of contrived 2dimensional 2-step insult, in an attempt at being witty, only to be completely baffled when you invalidated it midway without his knowledge (e.g. "You feeling lucky for this exam?", "I don't believe in luck, it undermines my brilliance", " Well I hope so, because you're gunna need it! *points*")

sum1 wrote:
I agree as well, but keep in mind that most of the literature on AS
applies to rather severe cases of the syndrome. Also note that
the deficiencies primarily apply to social interaction, and that it's
quite possible for aspies to be successful in science and the
academic world. Their obsessive devotion to their special interests
may even give them a competitive advantage in some cases.

Indeed, this is the case in regards to the former example of the only Aspie I have known well. I always expected and hoped that he would end up as an admin clerk of some sort, filing doccuments in a giant warehouse, or something to this effect (this level of work being the only sort I could see him maintaining successfully). Anyhow, contrary to my expectation (not so much to my hopes anymore), he is actually doing quite well in deep IT. Though still at uni, his expertise will most likely be largely unmatched in what ever subfield he specialises in. He will most probably make a lot of money from this, if he does not get hopelessly taken advantage of on the way (a real possiblity). He should be ok, though, seeing as his domineering mother who lives viacariously through him will ensure this will not happen (just as she most likely put him into IT).

im an asp, i got lucky when young enough to engender drastic changes, to meet a few good freinds and share a lot of acid, enough to allow me an oppertunity to practice some vital social development. not for everyone, but worthwhile for me.

i think sometimes aspergers coexists with narcisissm, it did with me for a long time, at the end of the day the major distinction as i see it is wether one is moved primarly by their own underlying self depreciation, as asp's often have difficulty socialy adjusting many do have huge issues with self esteme and often resort to narcissistic defence mechanisms.

rubystar wrote:I feel bad that he has to live with AS, it is in no way a gift, If I could take it away I would.

I understand, and I did in no way mean to imply that your son's
condition is a gift, or even that it isn't a cause of difficulty. I merely
intended to highlight some of the mitigating factors and potential
advantages of AS, in an attempt to explore any objective arguments
that might be used to portray it as a "higher form of intelligence".

I asked about him in the schiziod forum because many of his behaviors seem schizoid, but they said he was too aggressive to be schizoid.

I recall commenting on your post to the SPD forum. Aggression is
not a typical feature of either SPD or AS, but it also does not rule
out either of the disorders. My impression based on your
description of your son is that AS explains his behaviours better
than SPD does, and there is little that SPD could explain that isn't
already accounted for by AS.

SPD and AS have some overlapping features, and although there
are a number of differences, some of those are quite subtle, and
in some cases it may be difficult to tell the disorders apart.

My son has problems understanding sarcasm and often takes it literally.

This is a common feature in AS but not SPD.

He's never had a real girlfriend. Physically he is extremely handsome he has dark hair and deep blue eyes, he attracts girls but they find him odd so they don't get involved with him.

It's common in both disorders not to have a girl/boyfriend, but the
reasons may be somewhat different. In both disorders, the
behaviour may be sufficiently different from the norm as to seem
odd, but in AS there are usually additional peculiarities such as the
impairments in the use of nonverbal communications (body
language, eye contact, etc.). In SPD, there is more often a lack of
interest in close relationships. My own interest in pursuing romantic
relationships can be described as sporadic and half-hearted.

He doesn't know what is socially acceptable, and gets in trouble for it at times.

That is very common in AS, while schizoids are likely to have a
fair understanding of it, although they may not always care.

He hates not knowing what is going to happen in a given day,

Clumsiness,

These features are also characteristic of AS, but not SPD.

He's grandiose .... He doesn't think any rules apply to him.

In AS there is often a literal and rigid interpretation of rules, but
obviously not in the case of your son. My guess is that these
attitudes are manifestations of narcissistic traits, and I do have
them myself to a considerable extent.

I am well aquainted with an aspie. I see no valid correlation between narcissists and those with aspie syndrome. In fact the distinction is quite great despite the fact that many of the symptoms, behaviorally speaking, is often similar to a narcissism. However an aspi has little free will in the manner of his behavior whereas a narcissist does, as i see it. Aspies have a strong desire to " fit in " and to be accepted like anyone else but how they behave and their social skils subjugates them to a life of idle passing and scrutiny from 3rd parties. It is rather unfortunate. They desire things we do but they lack the proper mechanisms, things we take for granted, in which to have said desires realized .

my argument was not that they are correlated but rather that they can crossover, just depends on how affected the aspie is.

narcissism is simply a defence mechanism which is sometimes used by high functioning aspies.

The desire to fit in may apply to your aspie aqquaintence but is also not necessarily universal, i believe all have free will, aspie's may very well have a fixed/different way of precieving things, but either(asp's or narc's) can find more peace and happiness through self acceptence and estem. Aspie's may never be socialy "normal" per se. but it is neither difficult nor bad to free oneself from need to be preceived as "normal". Quite liberating in fact.

seems that many in this world are being driven from the "ghosts", all the external expectations of parents/ family/ ethnicity/ nationality/ religion... often overwhelming the individual. In the stream of all these influences judgements are evoked, by these external sources. I think that it is preferable for the individual to be the trigger of their own judgement. Instead of concerning myself with being normal, i pursue being moral.
Practicing morality has granted me both self accceptence and esteme, i may remain in a distent social orbit from many other people, but that distance does not make me feel above or below them, their is no impedement beyond vast space between. As such i no longer feel the way that i preceive as an obstical. rather it is an impetus to grow.

it is better to feel good, then to feel better

wow, very classy that advert for fling.com

do they having a warning label that the posters here are psychos?

so since you areso greatat mandarin why not google tom odda just for fun

over and out cuz im banned already

rubystar, two of my daughters cousins have been diagnosed with Aspergers. Both are children of my partners siblings. They are his nephews, one son from his sister and one son from his brother.

Makes you wonder if there's a genetic connection, doesn't it?