Is NPD a side effect of high intelligence/IQ?

svenska500 wrote:I say what is needed to convince the potentials to be intrigued by me. It comes naturally as to what I say.. Just as how most every single other guy says what they think will get them laid from a new potential in their life as well in that similar situation.

I don't want to get too far into this. But, that stands out as what I was getting at: you went to great lengths to describe how you have special skills. When I pointed out how you have the ability to use them (act, be someone else in order to gain an asymmetric advantage) you haughtily shifted to a minimalist position. You're doing it above too. "It's no different."

It sounded different when you described it (before being asked to consider how you can selectively control who you are to gain an advantage.).

I know, we can reverse those words and it says something else. I don't intend to get into that. I just wanted to reiterate the point I made before.

Carry on.


-- Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:07 pm --

monicaelise wrote:Stupid Ns probably aren't going to be bothered with things like IQ tests, or any sort of supposedly objective means of intelligence quantification.

It still remains odd to me the libidinal investment you have in this forum -- when you kept an unwanted N person in your life for TWO YEARS, never talking to them about the reason you dumped them TWO YEARS earlier.

It seems to devalue your libido. Like you're transferring something.

It seems to devalue your libido. Like you're transferring something.

I'm sorry, but what??

What does my libido have to do with the question of whether narcissim is linked to intelligence? Are you just trying to derail the thread because you don't have the decency/integrity to take up your personal issues with me privately? Honestly, I can't really see what your post (to me) has to do with my reply to Sven's initial post. Am I not supposed to post because the great TTL has spoken?

Why are you so fixated on me? I haven't offered a reply/response to a single one of your posts (to other board members) in the entire time you've been on this board. I've answered only your questions/posts to me so I really don't get why you feel the need to insinuate yourself into my responses to others, especially when you couldn't give answers to a handful of very basic questions that I asked you.

monicaelise wrote:

It seems to devalue your libido. Like you're transferring something.

I'm sorry, but what??

What does my libido have to do with the question of whether narcissim is linked to intelligence?

The passion? Why are you attracted to call Ns "dumb" and "stupid" here, but you were involved with an N for TWO YEARS without talking that plainly to him -- about something you learned and was the basis of you dumping him TWO YEARS earlier?

It sounds out of place to me. A little like you're triggered in a way you couldn't direct at him. It doesn't sound legitimate. Like it's troll'ish. "I cound't talk to my N like this for two years.. but you, you!"

I hope it's helping you. I just wanted to point out my perception. I think @sven should understand where you may be coming from.

I didn't say Ns are stupid and dumb. I said there are plenty of stupid Ns right here that offer counterexamples to Svens' argument. I don't think all Ns are stupid, or all Ns are smart. Ns think they're all smart (as Sven has just made evident), the rest of us don't.

As far as my passion goes, well I'm back again this week because I've spent the last several days watching my "trash" fill with messages from new UK email addresses. He went as far as to create not one, but TWO, new email addresses. When I come here I realize how pointless it is to even write one of your brilliant letters. I can see even in your responses to me, that (because of his disorder) he's not ever going to get past his own screwy relationship with reality. So, yeah, it helps. I get a little sick when I read these posts so I don't have to get A LOT sick trying to deal with him. Like I said previously, it's an inoculation of sorts.

How this relates to my libido I do not know. The passion you think you're seeing is exasperation, frustration, and disgust. I suspect there may be people in your past who may be able to relate.

Don't think for one moment I am not fully aware of your attempt to undermine my position. Just be careful you don't do our OP a disservice as a result of your need to get the upper hand here, Mr. Poison Pen. He asked a question, I offered a reply. Regardless of what you may believe my motives may be in responding, my position is correct. Ns are not smarter, there is no correlation.

monicaelise wrote:As far as my passion goes, well I'm back again this week because I've spent the last several days watching my "trash" fill with messages from new UK email addresses.

Maybe you should have talked to him those TWO YEARS instead of leaving a big bowl of milk by the door?

I hope you'll start a thread to talk about what you're facing. We're all here to help. But, I still think the "edge" with which you speak to Ns here lacks authenticity. It sounds like transference, which isn't nice. You could have run off your N TWO YEARS ago if you just kept talking to him about the very thing you dropped him over TWO YEARS PRIOR. Instead, it is an elephant in the room until you couldn't take it any more -- and then you go no-contact with him while using some rather "choice" yet re-definable terms here.

I look forward to a thread and hearing how you're going to deal with him. I hope your plan isn't to transfer your anger here. It won't be clear who you're angry at, yourself or him, or the person you're projecting onto.

There will be no post, sorry. Just like you, I'm not here for you, I'm here for me. As someone who has had the good fortune to work with some genuinely brilliant nons and some very stupid Ns, I felt that I had something to contribute to this thread so I did.

Am I under some obligation to be nice? I'm not mistreating anyone here, just sharing my opinions. I'm sorry, I can't worship you all in the way you'd like. I don't blame you for being what you are and I don't feel that I was a victim, but I sure as hell don't want to ever get involved with someone with this disorder again. So, now when I feel an impulse to respond to him and vomit all over him, or even worse, try to talk to him like he's a normal human, I come here and read these threads.

As I've said before, you are more than welcome to ignore my posts if you find them offensive or painful to read. I don't care whether you question my authenticity. Frankly, I feel the same way about you but up until now, I've just kept that suspicion to myself because what I think of you matters not a whit.

So now, how bout we try to stay on topic for once?

Monica Elise

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Let me explain for you..

I did not list Athletes, because it doesn't take much intelligence to hold a ball like everyone else and run fast. A professional athlete is where they are, because of genetics of being a good athlete. Becoming whom they are has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence or IQ. One simply requires the combination of excellent physical genetics and a learned skill of doing things with a ball. They didn't do anything great with their mind and intelligence to get where they are. They simply did what everyone else did in high school, simply better, coupled with their genetics. The same can be said about actors.. albeit I will not be dedicating another paragraph to them, as the ideology is near identical.

In terms of the individuals you listed as examples of 'nons' that were brilliant for their time..

Are you kidding me?

monicaelise wrote:Many of the most brilliant thinkers ...Socrates, Plato, Einstein, Bill Gates... were and are the antithesis of narcissists.

Do you know anything about these people at all or just the snipet that you read in high school history class? Have you read anything about the life story of the individuals you mentioned?

And you truly think they do not fit into the characteristics of highly NPD throughout their lives?

You have proven yourself to be an uninformed nitwit.

What you saw of them in the public view is not whom they are. Before you start naming people that you have nothing about, perhaps you should read their biographies. Everyone you listed, including Steve Jobs accomplished what they did and got where they did because they were HIGHLY narcissistic.

Do you even know the story behind Bill Gates? Do you know what he did to steal from others that did all the work and take credit at Microsoft? If you don't like to read, there's a movie on it.

Steve Jobs.. exactly the same.. He is the classic narcissist. Do you know the history of him taking all the credit for all the work from his partner Steve Wozniak? He would never be where he was today, if he didn't utilize all the traits of a narcissist and use people with care or empathy at all for them at all.

Einstein was a classic narcissist. Did you know anything about him? You should have married him if he was such an amazing 'non'. Like his wife, he would have made you keep his rooms clean, bring him three meals a day, keep his clothes and laundry in good order, and of course keep his bedroom and study neat to start. You seem to be ideal for this type of requirement from your husband.

Did you not read Plato's Republic? He is truly one of the most infamous narcissistic individuals to have lived.. Plato blatantly stated that philosophers like him were the only ones with the right to and capacity for absolute truth, as determined by him and people like him. The rest of society was to live in the realities provided for them and to them. Wow, not even I am as narcissistic as that.

Do we even need to get into Socrates? His need for external validation was the core of his entire life. Everything, up until the minute he died was for external validation. Look at his conversations and statements. Everything he said at the core showed how brilliant he was at manipulating the concepts and ideas and words of others.

So why did you just name off a list of narcissists to me as nons? You clearly have proven my point.

The most brilliant and intellectual individuals of our time.. They were all indeed narcissists.

Have a nice day!

svenska500 wrote:

I ask you.. Look at most every single great artist, billionaire, magnate, leader, etc.. of the past and present.. Read their biography.. Do not all of them show signs of the characteristics of NPD?

monicaelise wrote:Sven, I hate to burst your bubble but your logic is a mess. You won't see the stupid Ns in the public eye in most cases precisely because they are stupid. They lead inconsequential lives, just like the rest of us poor, stupid slobs. The Ns that become famous are not famous because they're narcissists, they just happen to have done something that the general public has taken notice of.

If you want examples of less-than-brilliant Ns, look to professional sports. I can think of a number of famous athletes who certainly seem to meet the criteria for NPD and are far from intelligent. Likewise with the professional acting community.

Stupid Ns probably aren't going to be bothered with things like IQ tests, or any sort of supposedly objective means of intelligence quantification. They just won't do it. If they do, they're certainly not going to admit that the test was accurate or what their scores are. They wouldn't be Ns if they could accept an objective analysis of their limitations. They'd be healthy, well-adjusted dumb people.

When I told you to look at this board, my point was to direct you to multitude of examples of non-intelligent Ns you will find on these pages. I would guess that smart, successful Ns are even rarer than smart, successful nons simply because most healthy nons can't stomach being around Ns for very long and very few people can become genuinely successful in a vacuum. The example you choose, Steve Jobs, is an exception ...if he even is an N... because he was able to do something truly special. The same holds true for the less than intelligent athletes and actors who meet the DSM criteria for NPD.

Remember, your question was whether Narcissism correlated with intelligence, not whether intelligent narcissists have achieved public acclaim. There certainly are intelligent narcissists. Intelligence is not, however, a trait that is connected with narcissism. It is coincidental at most. Many of the most brilliant thinkers ...Socrates, Plato, Einstein, Bill Gates... were and are the antithesis of narcissists.

Where the heck are we here?

TTL, I know you have some valid concerns about monicaelise's recent replies, but it may be better to start a separate thread instead of pursuing them here? It's becoming a diversion from what svenska's thread is about. Ok with you guys to take up a new thread?

Thank you Sven, you are just what the doctor ordered.

I won't embarrass you by sharing my credentials but I can tell you that you've got an awful lot to learn dear boy. I wish you the best and I genuinely hope you find whatever it is you came here in search of. You certainly are exactly what I needed.

Peace, I'm out!

You are absolutely welcome. I'm glad I could help.

Oh.. and I don't have any credentials. I graduated high school with a 1.8 GPA and barely got into college.. and when I did.. I dropped out within the first year.

See.. Unlike you.. I do not need to tell others about my 'credentials'. That seems rather narcissistic. Someone that says they have 'credentials' is in essence telling other people.. "I'm better than you. I have credentials, that you clearly do not have." That is rather arrogant of you to think of yourself as better than others because of your 'credentials'. And we all know, I absolutely have no tolerance for arrogance. It's a sign of insecurity. Insecure people are pathetic.

And ironically.. I am the narcissist. Isn't life funny sometimes..

monicaelise wrote:Thank you Sven, you are just what the doctor ordered.

I won't embarrass you by sharing my credentials but I can tell you that you've got an awful lot to learn dear boy. I wish you the best and I genuinely hope you find whatever it is you came here in search of. You certainly are exactly what I needed.

Peace, I'm out!