Discussing Moderation For NPD forum.

bitty wrote:I honestly don't know how my tone has changed

Dunno, you seem less easily irritated, more at peace. Relying a lot on intuition here, so not 100% accurate!

Another intuition that I need to get out of my chest: not that it matters but you don't sound very NPD to me. Does "unlabeling" people counts as "labeling"?

If you were a mod, how would you react to people who think your problems originated in your family and close relatives?

Thanks, Après, I'm glad to hear you say that. I do feel better, recently, especially after a lot of help from TruthtooLate. Before that, I'd sort of given up on the idea of ever feeling much better, really, although on the surface I'm the same superficial joker I've always been.

So it's good to hear that you can tell that I'm less irritable, and more peaceful, that's encouraging. Thanks again!

bitty wrote:Thanks, Après, I'm glad to hear you say that. I do feel better, recently, especially after a lot of help from TruthtooLate.

You're welcome. Oh really, how did he help?

Après L Orage wrote:

bitty wrote:I honestly don't know how my tone has changed

Another intuition that I need to get out of my chest: not that it matters but you don't sound very NPD to me. Does "unlabeling" people counts as "labeling"?

I made pretty much the same comment a while back. But then a lot of self-implied narcs here don't seem very narcissist. I mean, where's the meanness, the arrogance, the irritability....like mine?

Après L Orage wrote:Another intuition that I need to get out of my chest: not that it matters but you don't sound very NPD to me. Does "unlabeling" people counts as "labeling"?

If you were a mod, how would you react to people who think your problems originated in your family and close relatives?

I replied to the first part of your post, and have only just seen the second part, above, sorry. I'm very careful about how I word things here, there's some stuff that I leave out. But yes, I can fully identify as a narcissist. I wouldn't want to be a mod, but if I were, I'd react to suggestions that my narcissism was caused by 'nurture' in the same way that I always do; by disagreeing!

Après L Orage wrote:

bitty wrote:Thanks, Après, I'm glad to hear you say that. I do feel better, recently, especially after a lot of help from TruthtooLate.

You're welcome. Oh really, how did he help?

He spent a long time, in PMs, helping me to deal with guilt over things in my past.

heracles wrote:

Après L Orage wrote:

bitty wrote:I honestly don't know how my tone has changed

Another intuition that I need to get out of my chest: not that it matters but you don't sound very NPD to me. Does "unlabeling" people counts as "labeling"?

I made pretty much the same comment a while back. But then a lot of self-implied narcs here don't seem very narcissist. I mean, where's the meanness, the arrogance, the irritability....like mine?

I have them, believe me. I think that the only people who can truly judge a narcissist's character are family and long term partners.

bitty wrote:I replied to the first part of your post, and have only just seen the second part, above, sorry. I'm very careful about how I word things here, there's some stuff that I leave out.

My bad I edited after you replied. Did not mean to trick you.

bitty wrote:He spent a long time, in PMs, helping me to deal with guilt over things in my past.

I understand.

bitty wrote:But yes, I can fully identify as a narcissist.

heracles wrote:I made pretty much the same comment a while back. But then a lot of self-implied narcs here don't seem very narcissist. I mean, where's the meanness, the arrogance, the irritability....like mine?

See guys, this is precisely why I tend to think that people tend to overestimate their narcissism. Being, at times, mean, arrogant or irritable does not exactly scream NPD to me. It screams defense mechanism.

To me a pwNPD is somebody who invests heavily in the false self and who displays grandiose behaviors. The overt version feeding more overtly on attention while the covert version would thrive on a holier-than-thou façade while secretly feeding on ego strokings as well. It's kind of fitting that you mentioned TTL, Bitty. Cause he is a perfect example of hidden grandiosity feeding on ego strokings under cover of helping others. Outwardly projecting a pater familias' aura, while inwardly devoured by a need for attention/admiration.

It's something I have detected from very few people on this forum. So my question is: is it possible Bitty that this NPD self-diagnosis is something you are clinging to in order to give yourself some form of identity? I am not saying it's the case, but I feel like those questions are worth being asked. At best, it's something new to explore, and at worst, it's a dead end.

Really interesting post Apres. IMO these are important points you are bringing up.

How many people here on the NPD forum are self-diagnosed?

of those of you self-diagnosed, how many have sought therapy?

I think of NPDs as people who are so caught up in their fantasies it would not occur to them that they have a disorder. Those that seek treatment usually do so when their disorder has been causing them or those around them a lot of distress. Someone who is officially diagnosed is lolidk and she doesn't really seem to want to spend much time posting here, even though she accepts her diagnosis.

My father is another who is diagnosed (if you consider it official that my therapist diagnosed him without actually meeting him, just based on me talking about him nonstop for hours on end)...well he's never been in therapy as far as I know because he sees nothing wrong with himself. any difficulties or problems come from everyone and everything else but him...so, the way he sees it he has no need to seek treatment. and no desire to. he discards anything or anyone who "narcissistically injures" him too much. but there is very little insight there and little desire to gain insight. he is in pain, I can see, but he blames everyone else but himself.

anyways, i'm rambling now. sorry. but I thought Apres brought up a very interesting thing.

When I say in my signature that I'm "self-diagnosed" I don't mean that in an absolute, technical sense. I've watched many videos and read many essays and articles and I feel I quite closely fit the description of many "disorders", so tentaviely and expediently I call myself these things.

I've also said I don't fully, 100%, believe in "narcissism" as it's described by psychology, the DSM, the psycho-analytic traditions, all and sundry armchair narcissism experts all over this forum, YouTube and the Net. Maybe I am a superior, sensitive person with big dreams and those dreams are good, even though society may hate and fear them. (What I call my glorious "social movement" which will guide and give hope and meaning to millions, the DSM mavens may call a "destructive cult". Could they just be jealous, fearful mediocrities?) On the other hand, I am open to the possibility I may be "disordered". As a Buddhist, I think much of my suffering is due to clinging, but at this point, I'm even going through a crisis of faith of sorts with my Buddhism.

I do have something I call "my angst" and I'm much more interested in that and how to alleviate than I am "narcissism" or "NPD". These and schizoidism and all the rest are just theories I'm exploring as a way of coping with my angst, which is a whole blend of disturbing emotions, of FEELINGS I don't think anybody can quite understand.

No, I'm not interested in gaining admission to the narcissist club. If there's such a thing as narcissism and I'm a narcissist then that's what I am. If I'm not, then I'm not. Possible narcissism is just one facet of my inner problem.

justagirl00 wrote:I think of NPDs as people who are so caught up in their fantasies it would not occur to them that they have a disorder. Those that seek treatment usually do so when their disorder has been causing them or those around them a lot of distress.

Yes!

justagirl00 wrote:Someone who is officially diagnosed is lolidk and she doesn't really seem to want to spend much time posting here, even though she accepts her diagnosis.

Maybe she has not reached this point in life where NPD has taken its toll? When she does contribute to this forum, I like it though.

justagirl00 wrote:My father is another who is diagnosed (if you consider it official that my therapist diagnosed him without actually meeting him, just based on me talking about him nonstop for hours on end)...well he's never been in therapy as far as I know because he sees nothing wrong with himself. any difficulties or problems come from everyone and everything else but him...so, the way he sees it he has no need to seek treatment. and no desire to. he discards anything or anyone who "narcissistically injures" him too much. but there is very little insight there and little desire to gain insight. he is in pain, I can see, but he blames everyone else but himself.

anyways, i'm rambling now. sorry.

Well you've been sitting first row, so you know what the real life consequences are. I know I get upset when NPD is glamorized.

heracles wrote:When I say in my signature that I'm "self-diagnosed" I don't mean that in an absolute, technical sense. I've watched many videos and read many essays and articles and I feel I quite closely fit the description of many "disorders", so tentaviely and expediently I call myself these things.

Spoken like a true intj! I remember a post where you mentioned complex personalities, and I remember wondering what the hell does he mean? Truth is being an intj comes with a wealth of challenges: you don't get to feel understood very often when you're an intj, do you? (From what I gathered from another intj).

heracles wrote:I do have something I call "my angst" and I'm much more interested in that and how to alleviate than I am "narcissism" or "NPD". These and schizoidism and all the rest are just theories I'm exploring as a way of coping with my angst, which is a whole blend of disturbing emotions, of FEELINGS I don't think anybody can quite understand.

Sounds like a challenge, lol! Mmh... Maybe it's true that nobody can understand your angst, it's too general, complex, unique, personal. But I feel like when you break things down in smaller elements, it's easier for people to relate.

heracles wrote:Possible narcissism is just one facet of my inner problem.

Possibly, yes. Not all needs/cravings for validation are of a narcissistic order though.

Après L Orage wrote:My bad I edited after you replied. Did not mean to trick you.

That's fine, I saw that you'd edited after I'd replied.

Après L Orage wrote:See guys, this is precisely why I tend to think that people tend to overestimate their narcissism. Being, at times, mean, arrogant or irritable does not exactly scream NPD to me. It screams defense mechanism.

To me a pwNPD is somebody who invests heavily in the false self and who displays grandiose behaviors. The overt version feeding more overtly on attention while the covert version would thrive on a holier-than-thou façade while secretly feeding on ego strokings as well.

I don't know that I'm a narcissist because I'm mean, arrogant or irritable, although they're components. The things that resonate so strongly with me are the ones that I don't expound on here.

The narcissists here are self aware, and that in itself will dampen down the extremes of narcissism, because it greatly reduces the self deception. But any narcissist will tell you that the underlying proclivities are still there. Sometimes I can 'see myself in action' and stop myself, at other times I realise, sooner or later, how my thinking was distorted.

A false self is someone that a narcissist has to almost become, in public, because there is no firm identity underneath. It's a way of interacting, as well as a means of garnering supply. It's unavoidable, for me, because I can't be my 'real' self. What there is of her would not be accepted. I don't say that from a basis of shame, it's just fact.

Après L Orage wrote:It's kind of fitting that you mentioned TTL, Bitty. Cause he is a perfect example of hidden grandiosity feeding on ego strokings under cover of helping others. Outwardly projecting a pater familias' aura, while inwardly devoured by a need for attention/admiration.

Truth was painfully aware of his narcissism, and examined his motives constantly, without giving himself the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that he derived much satisfaction from praise, (as indeed most self aware narcissists don't, really), because he'd faced himself honestly.

I haven't seen any narcissist on this forum say that they help others from a basis of affective empathy, but cognitive empathy can be a part of our reasons, along with the narcissistic ones that we're all aware of to some degree.

Après L Orage wrote:So my question is: is it possible Bitty that this NPD self-diagnosis is something you are clinging to in order to give yourself some form of identity? I am not saying it's the case, but I feel like those questions are worth being asked. At best, it's something new to explore, and at worst, it's a dead end.

I'm going to be more open here than I usually am. When people suggested in the past that I may not be a narcissist, I used to feel angry, not because they were taking away a desperately assumed identity, but because I absolutely know that I'm a narcissist, for reasons that I don't discuss fully on a public forum. Now, it's wearying to feel the need to defend and explain what I know in my core, so I just say that I know without doubt that I'm a narcissist. A self aware, modified one, but the underlying mental and emotional processes will always be there, although sometimes weakened.