Discussing Moderation For NPD forum.

by **bitty** » Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:15 pm

Hello, Otter, thanks for getting back so quickly, and putting thought into how this forum could be managed. I agree with you, really, that what I proposed might turn out to be worse. I wrote in a previous post that narcissists would need to start or contribute to threads, for this forum to flourish in its intended format, and I think that they may not do so for other reasons, besides not seeing posts from fellow narcissists to spark their interest. (E.g., just not having anything that they particularly want to say, or not wanting to repeat a particular topic.)

So I think it likely that a forum reserved for threads started by narcissists, where 'nons' were welcome to post, would be very quiet, and mainly kept going by the 'nons'. I just see this forum, almost the only one of its kind, not really serving its original purpose. Those narcissists who've posted in the last couple of pages haven't really seen the need for the current format to change, and as you say, for practical reasons, it should probably remain.

So thanks, Otter, and others who've shared their thoughts and ideas, I appreciate it.

I think that you're right; we narcissists just don't have real interests and opinions in much besides ourselves. We can't have, when our focus is pretty much fixed inwards, and we don't have the emotional range to feel strongly about the external world. (I wrote some time ago about having an 'empty head', because I lack the 'emotional petrol' to create thoughts.)

Narcissists need to be 'sparked' by someone else, and other narcissists are the only ones that they will strongly relate to.

Perhaps other narcissists feel that our usual problems have been discussed to death on this forum, or else it's just too depressing to keep discussing them. I' have seen narcissists write that they needed to take a break from here.

by **bitty** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:35 am

Blimey, I've just reread the first post of Esquire's thread, 'Do narcissists have feelings?', and he's expanded upon the same point as the one I made in my previous post, (about them needing to be 'sparked' by others), made by Sam Vaknin. Vaknin writes that narcissists' emotions are reactive, not active.

Esquire's made some good observations in that thread, what I've read of it so far. If anyone did want to comment on this particular point, (which is probably doubtful, given the quietness of the forum at the moment :wink:

), I'd be glad if they'd do so in that thread, as I don't want to steal attention away from it.

It's been revived by a poster asking some questions that I don't feel able to answer, which is why I didn't want to detract from her questions by posting there.

by **Après L Orage** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:20 am

justagirl00 wrote:IMHO the "no diagnosing" rule is one of the most important rules of all. first of all, while all of us can think we know without a doubt the poster's diagnosis, or diagnosis of someone they are talking about, in reality, even licensed doctors and psychologists need to do extensive testing and analysis before coming up with a diagnosis. I have a MS in psychology and learned "how to" diagnose, and have also worked in clinical settings, but still I am not comfortable with diagnosing anyone on here and would not try to. diagnosis is an art and very complicated; it takes lots of training and practice before a person gets it right.

furthermore, it can be dangerous to try to diagnose others. and even furthermore, those reading can also be affected by this, and it can be dangerous and harmful to them as well.

I think its healthy and good to talk about symptoms and to share personal experiences about your own symptoms and how they may be similar and how they relate, etc., but that is not attempting to diagnose. anyone who wants or needs a diagnosis should see a professional. some people may come here wanting to be diagnosed with whatever disorder, for whatever reason, and may be doing everything they can to convince us they have it, but "validating" that wish of theirs, is doing them no favors.

exploring symptoms causing them pain and distress, yes. but putting a diagnostic label on it? no.

just my humble opinion

I loved this post Justagirl. I've been guilty of validating several posters wishes to categorize others or themselves and I regret it. Trying to see past the words to understand what causes pain seems definitely like the way to go, even IRL I might add.

bitty wrote:(I don't exactly think that 'nons' have been encouraged so much as welcomed, if you take my meaning.)

Dear Bitty, I respectfully disagree, at times nons have been encouraged as potential sources of narcissistic supply. Once being made redundant by grown supply from the "inside", they did not seem to seem as desirable. I do not find that particularly problematic when the dynamic is acknowledged and/or analysed. After all, certain posters are pretty forward about needing the supply from nons, and I find this candor quite a step forward in the whole self-discovery process. But posing as "cured" while needing constant ego stroking is akin to a delusion, if you take my meaning.

by **bitty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:14 pm

Après L Orage wrote:
bitty wrote:(I don't exactly think that 'nons' have been encouraged so much as welcomed, if you take my meaning.)

Dear Bitty, I respectfully disagree, at times nons have been encouraged as potential sources of narcissistic supply. Once being made redundant by grown supply from the "inside", they did not seem to seem as desirable. I do not find that particularly problematic when the dynamic is acknowledged and/or analysed. After all, certain posters are pretty forward about needing the supply from nons, and I find this candor quite a step forward in the whole self-discovery process. But posing as "cured" while needing constant ego stroking is akin to a delusion, if you take my meaning.

Fair enough, especially when you disagreed so nicely!

You're probably right, in fact, you are!

P.s., just one thing that I don't agree with you on - I don't think that many of us would classify ourselves as 'cured', so much as recovering narcissists at best, with frequent relapses. (Or at least, that's the best that I can say for myself.)

by **heracles** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:36 pm

Apres L Orage,
First you agree with justagirl that members shouldn't label-cum-diagnose themselves or others, then you refer to posters on here "posing as cured" but still seeking "supply". This implies you think they are in fact narcissists, thus "labeling" them by implication. If YOU think are, and thereby "label' them as, narcissists/pwNPD, why shouldn't THEY. Looks like a pretty clear contradiction here. Are you familiar with critical thinking?

by **Nasty_Boy** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:42 pm

bitty wrote:
Après L Orage wrote:
bitty wrote:(I don't exactly think that 'nons' have been encouraged so much as welcomed, if you take my meaning.)

P.s., just one thing that I don't agree with you on - I don't think that many of us would classify ourselves as 'cured', so much as recovering narcissists at best, with frequent relapses. (Or at least, that's the best that I can say for myself.)

I don't think you can change your personality. You may adjust a few things for the better but a "cure" is impossible.

by **Après L Orage** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:57 pm

bitty wrote:P.s., just one thing that I don't agree with you on - I don't think that many of us would classify ourselves as 'cured', so much as recovering narcissists at best, with frequent relapses. (Or at least, that's the best that I can say for myself.)

Sorry for the misunderstanding Bitty, I was not referring to you at all. On the contrary, it seems to me that your overall tone has shifted, which if I understand anything at all, is indicative of the fact that your hard work is paying off.

heracles wrote:First you agree with justagirl that members shouldn't label-cum-diagnose themselves or others, then you refer to posters on here "posing as cured" but still seeking "supply". This implies you think they are in fact narcissists, thus "labeling" them by implication. If YOU think are, and thereby "label' them them as, narcissists/pwNPD, why shouldn't THEY. Looks like a pretty clear contradiction here. Are you familiar with critical thinking?

Hey heracles, I feel like most people are confused about what they suffer from (and so was I). I just think that some isolate cases are very clear-cut. And those were the isolate cases I was referring to.

I also pride myself on my ability to think critically (lol, how did you know?), but that does not mean that I want to shut anybody down, neither you nor anybody else, whether by labeling them or other means. Truthfully I hope you keep contributing. The world needs critical thinker of many kinds.

by **bitty** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:21 pm

Nasty_Boy wrote:I don't think you can change your personality. You may adjust a few things for the better but a "cure" is impossible.

Agreed, but I do think that people evolve over their lifetimes, with occasional giant lurches. So I agree that much of it is surface adjustments, but there's some gradual change, within limits, inside, as well.

Après L Orage wrote:Sorry for the misunderstanding Bitty, I was not referring to you at all. On the contrary, it seems to me that your overall tone has shifted, which if I understand anything at all, is indicative of the fact that your hard work is paying off,

Ah, sorry Après, thanks for explaining. (I wasn't sure who you meant, to be honest.) I honestly don't know how my tone has changed, but I understand that it's a compliment, so thank you!

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