Narcissism has a cure

SamGabor wrote:Only chance to cure narcissism is at the time when the narcissist is still unable to consider him being totally wrong. When he is able, it is too late.

Ladywith3cats wrote:I agree with you. I think NPD is based on fear. Fear was the reason the false self was built. Letting go of fear would be the cure. I think Tony Brown believed this and that's how he cured himself. Replace thoughts of fear with thoughts of love. Much easier said than done, though.

I also agree with you about the solar plexus chakra. I find meditating on that brings up painful emotions from my past and I usually wind up crying. That's always a good thing. Narcissists need to cry it all out; I'm convinced that's the only way to healing.

Lately I've been stuck in depression but for me, depression is more of a numb, lifeless, draggy feeling. It causes me to just want to lie around and do nothing. It saps me of energy and motivation. It robs me of the ability to feel anything at all other than self pity and worthlessness. It's MUCH worse than the crying and pain that comes from digging deep, because that sort of pain feels alive, like it has a goal. I always feel great after having a good cry. The numbness of depression just makes me want to take to my bed and never wake up.

im sorry for your condition

i was also depressed, and my only form of joy was the silence

i think respecting your emotional side is part of the process

but what about narcissism as an attachment to power?

i used to need to be in limelight as a way to feel my feelings werent going to be invalidated

i usually fear to be dominated

that makes me to say a lot of I's

the narcissists is always afraid of losing their control, power

so i think that because of some motive,

even looking weak can be a form of power, because it gives you the power that a victim have,

im not totally cured, but believe me, in some periods of the week i do feel all my narcissism never existed, but then some kind of experience activates that

every narcissist is manipulative, we cant let go of manipulation, and if we let, what is left?
then we are not narcissists at all

so, i think narcissists have some kind of complex, in wich the mind keep us feeling threatened, humilhated, abused as a form of surviving because that is what is left when i let go of power and some peculiar situations happens, like when i feel im neglected

manipulation, control, are forms of power

since narcissists have high cortisol and are always living with fear and being controlling

the cure must be to let go of all attachments to control

then develop the emotional center , sacral chakra

that has to be with healthy emotional life

so, maybe the root is unhealth emotions?

but, always when i am narcissistical, there is this controlling self

all narcissists have attachments on power, so why not blame the attachment to power as thje cause of narcissism?

there are unhealth emotions, and this feel not normal, but if unhealth emotions are what is left after letting fo of attachment to power, then isnt this a signal you are some steps to get cured?

unhealth emotions like carried shame and humilhation
eel right

Ladywith3cats wrote:Lately I've been stuck in depression but for me, depression is more of a numb, lifeless, draggy feeling. It causes me to just want to lie around and do nothing. It saps me of energy and motivation. It robs me of the ability to feel anything at all other than self pity and worthlessness.

When you say self pity, that makes me think of dysphoria. I always thought it was depression. I think it led into a depressed state, a mix. But, I primarily experienced dysphoria which is more like a funeral-like loss of myself (plans gone awry, loss of supply, reflecting on loss in the past). The opposite of euphoria.

It almost had a cleansing purpose. It seemed to be a cycle from trying to function (to my standards) then retreating to the funeral. There was some kind of hope or expectation of pulling out and "this time will be different." It felt like productive self-punishment, grieving, getting supply from how much I feel for myself. Like @memme said, enjoying the silence.

What I've noticed after being self-aware is that I'm kind of repulsed by it. I know too much. How can I "play the game" of regrets/sorrows when I know I could do it again? I haven't changed. I'm just aware. (I hope I could recognize it now and take steps. But, it's still there. It's me.).

So, when I feel dysphoria coming on, I quickly get a mental image of the stereotypical murderer in prison saying "but I suffered a loss too." It turns into numb, isolated depression. I don't ruminate, I just know. There's nothing enjoyable about it. No soothing from languishing upon my monument. The silence isn't pleasant.

At this point (by comparison), I think dysphoria is almost like a celebration. It's the lie. It's part of the inner-narrative. It's part of the narrative cycle (supply accumulation, grandiosity, frustration, injury, collapse-grieve, accumulate supply from the grieving... repeat cycle). As soon as I sense dysphoria, it seems disingenuous.

What it feels like is when I blocked my False Self a year ago (after 1-2 months of getting used to blocking the inner narrative). I felt like I was in an empty room, completely exposed (hyper aware of the slightest threat, like the hundreds of things in the room undergoing entropy). It was so disturbing that I had an immediate mental image of the scene in the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(film)]movie Identity[/i] when John Cusack realizes who he is. It was very uncomfortable experiencing myself like that, and I began to panic.

The scale of difference makes me think depression without dysphoria is like that experience a year ago. I make the same conscious choice to block the "narrative" and the False-Self (a part which is animated from the narrative, and foaments dysphoria.). The only difference is, I'm used to it.

Another way I can describe it is [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEY2DCxnPyA]the ending of the movie Code 46[/quote]. It's an interesting movie of the State controlling everyone's existence, everything planned, they use an "empathy virus" to understand things. (Lot of associations with our mental construct). In the end this woman is caught for violating a rule twice. She's sent to live outside society in a barren , hazardous world. The man, who was to enforce the rules, and contributed to her awareness of a genuine life, returns to his family with his memories erased. (She has to live with a genuine life, the experience of her dreams, her life's purpose. Alone, in a hostile environment. Is that better than "playing the game" and living within the planned community?).

To me, that's an analogy (a contrast) of how being self-aware isn't that great. If you're really self-aware, I don't know if depression even describes that (existence without the coping mechanisms). It's more like a stark, barren, inhospitable existence compared to the glib "I can have anyone. I'm going to sulk for days and find myself."

Obviously it's better in some ways. Who wants to live a fake life just because it's easier? But, there are those depressive times when the fake life would be better, to rejuvinate the sense of self, scrape value off the sidewalk of memories. That's better than numb "this is me."

I don't think there is a realistic cure. Not like a "cure for polio" (immunization). I think it's more like a cure for excema. Which is constant treatment. It can be reduced, eliminated for periods of time, discomfort minimized. But, it will always be there.

Truth too late wrote:I quickly get a mental image of the stereotypical murderer in prison saying "but I suffered a loss too." It turns into numb, isolated depression. I don't ruminate, I just know. There's nothing enjoyable about it. No soothing from languishing upon my monument.

Exactly.

im ashammed about my past intentions

but i rreally got cured by sometime..

i got greed about my self entitlement

man,, im tired

maybe it is time to start looking for answers in why narcissism is on raise

competitiviness ? because big egos create big hurts?

wait, now i had some insights on the sacral chakra, is narcissism some kind of emotion denial?
and then attachment to power.

it looks like im cured lol

hm... im pretty self aware in the momment
my mind is aware of its surroundings
i am cured

narcissism is emotions denial + attachment to power

lets all be cured

but edit:> i feel something is lacking... i do have narcissism dysphoria hehe
but i read sometime about the difference in NPD and narcissistical behaviour, and i think that the difference is that NPD are with sacral chakra blockage and "narcissists" just a problem with power

oh... my fears of being controlled

i think the sacral chakra might be also about respecting others emotions

i will practice that and psot if that is the cure

but what if narcissism is just being emotionally ignorant?

my final conclusions on narcissism is that

narcissism is ignorance or stupidity in love

if you learn to lvoe you will open the heart chakra

love is understanding

i think narcissism is attachment to power in a way it ignores love
for example, being unloving would be associate with a need of control
so the fear desire voice talks louder in those who are not cured

when we fear someone, like a person that we thinks we doesnt understand
we will univetably lack love, that is the fear of the narcissist
to treat others as if they were unknown,


narcissism is , simply heart chakra blockage... yeh

lack of compassion and love, but i strongly recommend to work on solar plexus

oh.... how idiot im am

the difference between a narcissist and a non-narcissist is nothing but their wisdom on love and compassion

i think this come form the belief in a permanent self, or loving in an attached way, such as looking for happiness in things that not everybody can have

when power craving voice becomes louder than compassion in our mind ,we become narcissists...

a lot of love comes from" I deserve happiness" "you deserve happiness"

maybe the thing start on not viewing your happiness as a motive of unhappiness to others


maybe narcissism is big on envious societies

and certainly big on envy famillies

the cause of all pd's is the avoidance of suffering
so the cure is...suffering

http://www.cyquest.com/pathway/patterns_self_hate.html

SamGabor wrote:

NimplyDimply wrote:

SamGabor wrote:our lives.could have been saved at one point. There is nothing to be cured these were started as simple decisions. No need to cure that we could have decided to choose otherwise at any point.

Then therapy/counselling is a useless profession.

I don't know where you got that conclusion from. Lot of non-disordered people benefit from therapy.

I was thinking about this. Is it possible you're engaging in passive aggression? I.e., that there is a personality structure present which you don't recognize, instead focusing on "NPD is a choice?"

It seems like, after having been told NPD is the result of trauma and genetics, not a choice[1], the way you keep saying it's a choice (without qualifying it as "my NPD was a choice"), it's starting to look intentionally provocative. Now you're saying therapy won't help a disordered person? This site seems to be very therapy-friendly.[2] There is an anti-psych sub-forum if you disagree.

You sound negativistic, which I tend to relate to. But, you're carrying it to such an extent (after friendly input) that it seems willfully intended to trigger. That makes me wonder if it's not passive aggression -- which could confirm to you that what you're dealing with is more than a simple choice a few years ago. (I.e., your "choice" may have been affected by a similar propensity to passive aggression?).

I know the above might be taken as giving you a hard time. But, it could also be the answer you're looking for. At least a reason to see a therapist and find out if your opinion of therapy is wrong (before telling everyone their therapy is futile... which is skating on thin ice, IMO).

[1] It can be a raging battle to accept one's disorder, what to do with it, etc. That really can feel like a choice -- but still subject to a structure which is biased to self-interest (biased choices).

[2] I assume prognosis is covered under diagnosis "or not following any other advice:"

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Truth too late wrote: How can I "play the game" of regrets/sorrows when I know I could do it again? I haven't changed. I'm just aware. (I hope I could recognize it now and take steps. But, it's still there. It's me.).

So, when I feel dysphoria coming on, I quickly get a mental image of the stereotypical murderer in prison saying "but I suffered a loss too." It turns into numb, isolated depression. I don't ruminate, I just know. There's nothing enjoyable about it. No soothing from languishing upon my monument. The silence isn't pleasant.

I responded to the italicized part by writing, "Exactly.", but I'm feeling guilty, because that implied that I related to all of it, rather than to the dysphoria that Lady described. But what I related to was the image of a murderer saying that they had suffered too. (Which means, for me, that I have no right to feel compassion for myself, or move on, or try to enjoy life, as I've described elsewhere. So I do relate to you writing that you don't remain dysphoric, but at the same time, I 'keep myself in jail.')

Ladywith3cats wrote:It robs me of the ability to feel anything at all other than self pity and worthlessness.

I do feel worthless like this, very much. (Or rather, for me, undeserving. I don't know if that's different?) I ruminate constantly, and even when I'm not doing this consciously, it's 'lying on the floor' of my mind, ready to jump up and stop me if I start to really enjoy myself. The causes of my feelings are very different to your's, but as I say, the feelings themselves, and the fact that you are limited to feeling only them, are similar.